D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
I liked TPM
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
a721402
Perhaps tomorrow will be better.
Star War prequels surely aren't very good, but at least they all have very high production value, unlike FO3 or FO4.
So i say it's quite unfair to Force Awakens if someone want to compare it to FO3.
So i say it's quite unfair to Force Awakens if someone want to compare it to FO3.
I like TFA.I liked TPM
Can we both agree that Fallout 4 however is attack of the clones?
D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
We can say that Fallout 4 is shit, period. Even AotC was trying to do something new actively, had a high production effort and value.
I myself had nothing against TFA, well, the same i have against the lil moss patch growing in my window. Not great at all, but it ain't bothering
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Basically a huge amount of effort went into justifying the presence of the BoS and Enclave in the game, which all gets ignored by posters. It irritates me because when trying to compare Fallout 4, which didn't bother to make justifications at all, you can't discuss it because the conversationalists refuse to acknowledge any difference.
Mentioned but not used.
Sorry, to clarify, the Enclave can refer to both the Post-War American themed Tribals and the Illuminati-esque conspiracy which secretly controlled the Pre-War United States government. In this case, the Pre-War government was setting up the Vaults for post-apocalypse research. Vault-87 being experimented on with FEV makes sense as the Vaults are a large source of human test subjects which would be completely disposable.
It shows retcons aren't inherently bad and have a precedent in the franchise.
I'm sorry, what? Didn't you just justify it yourself? The Enclave has lost their home for the past 120 years and the NCR is going to annihilate them. You have explained EXACTLY why they would listen to someone who claimed to be the President and move all that way.
Survival.
Yep, one of the better collection of choices in Fallout 3.
They traveled there to do do their job. The Brotherhood of Steel is an organization with a goal of collecting technology and not just to sit on their asses doing nothing in bunkers. They had the secondary goal of making contact with the MWBoS. The technology collection goal also succeeded with a massive collection of power armor (which they needed new bodies to use) and Liberty Prime. Besides, Tactics also establishes the BoS has a history of sending their liberals on suicide missions to the East.
There's a reason for all of the above factions in Fallout 3 too.
I'd rather fight the Enclave rather than just eliminate them from the game world in the name of continuity.
Caesar's Legion isn't just the army we encounter. Presumably, the civilian areas are more Roman than the army.
I think there's a substantive difference between the writing justifying the BOS and Enclave than the Fallout 4 writing. You can argue the reasoning for the BOS and Enclave in the Capital Wasteland isn't good but at least argue it's THERE.
SarcasticGoodGuy
*R O T T E N*
I think that TFA had good characters. Fallout 3 didn't.
I think that TFA was visually good looking. Fallout 3 wasn't.
I think that TFA used previous plots, characters and ideas from the franchise and created a good product, albeit a bit samey. Fallout 3 used previous plots, characters and ideas from its franchise and still somehow fucked up.
I think that TFA was visually good looking. Fallout 3 wasn't.
I think that TFA used previous plots, characters and ideas from the franchise and created a good product, albeit a bit samey. Fallout 3 used previous plots, characters and ideas from its franchise and still somehow fucked up.
Yeah but it wasn't good. They just walked from one coast to the other because they heard a guy claiming to be the POTUS. We don't ignore it, we think that it is fucking stupid.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
In this case, said person had access to the Enclave's codes and authentication numbers because John Henry Eden had been in communication with Dick Richardson. Furthermore, they didn't have a choice because they were being exterminated by NCR and had nowhere to flee to.
At the very least, they'd check it out and probably think they could take it over. There's not exactly a lot of places a large civilian population can flee too in the Fallout universe.
SarcasticGoodGuy
*R O T T E N*
I think it's also the fact that they walk over post-war America and there's no mention of anything they find. It's as if there's this gap that Bethesda never bothered to fill between the radio transmission and arriving at DC.
Compare it to the Legion, who have their exploits between Arizona and the Fort told around the Wasteland. We know what they've been up to from quests and the radio. It just makes the Enclave seem a bit inactive. Coupled with the fact that they're an old faction, it just makes people tired of them because Bethesda didn't try anything new with them.
TFA played things safe, and it kind of had to. After the prequels, it needed to hug you with something warm and familiar.
It's like meeting a good friend after a decade and you just are the same people you were before. Then he'll invite you to see his family and that's where the craziness starts to ensue.
Fallout 3 was like seeing your old friend, but he is still acting the way he did. You can't embrace it as he has lost that charm so much so, you feel sorry for them.
It's like meeting a good friend after a decade and you just are the same people you were before. Then he'll invite you to see his family and that's where the craziness starts to ensue.
Fallout 3 was like seeing your old friend, but he is still acting the way he did. You can't embrace it as he has lost that charm so much so, you feel sorry for them.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Like I said, I think it's a matter of taste but for me the Enclave at least has a justification for their choices. They need to cleanse the Wasteland of all the monsters which are inhabiting it in order for civilization to return. While that will result in the end of dangerous monsters like the degenerate creatures inhabiting NCR and New Reno, it will allow for the return of a true humanity which can prosper on the surface. Omelette and eggs and all that.
On a more serious note, though, I think the Enclave elevates Fallout 2 to a form of art because you can make serious social commentary on the United States and its darker impulses by drawing comparisons to the Enclave. Like Captain America and the Winter Soldier, which I believe is the best of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the fact they show how a recognizable US intelligence agency could be infiltrated by comic book Nazis shows that its easy to fall into the trap of fascism.
It's why I consider Fallout 3 to be art as the 1950s idealism it parodies and subverts has real social value to study and talk about, unlike pure sci-fi silliness.
I personally know five or six players who checked out the original games because of Fallout 3--and continued to like Fallout 3 more.
Tastes may vary.
Why would there be? It probably took a day and a half. It's not like it was a particular risky journey either as they're bypassing all issues of food, water, and Deathclaws. The Enclave maybe stopped in Chicago for refueling. The BOS, by contrast, walked on foot and destroyed the Pitt.
Why didn't Bethesda just made Fallout 1 and 2 in 3D using their (outdated and crappy to be honest) engine?
I mean, if they really wanted to retell the original games in a way an entire new generation of fans can be introduced to all the wonders of Fallout lore, then just building the first games in gamebryo would have sufficed and would have a better story and lore than Fallout 3.
Videogames are not like movies, if a movie studio went ahead and remade an old movie where the story and characters and everything else was the same but it had better (different and "updated" and whatever) visuals, most people wouldn't like it because it was still the same movie.
On video games, making the isometric turn RP games into 3D shooting RPGs would definitely get new fans into it as much as Fallout 3 did, with the added bonus of not needing to pay for writers.
I will be honest, I think Bethesda did not wanted to retell the story, they actually just wanted to have something related to the classics to justify the name Fallout 3 and that was it.
You put it in a very simplistic way, looking for the water chip and fixing the purifier are not similar goals (one is to save our vault which will perish for sure, the other is to provide clean water to a wasteland where clean water is really not that much of a necessity since everyone there seems to be surviving quite nicely without the water). Then we have the main quests: Fallout 1. find water chip in a limited time frame or vault dies, fight the mutants and the Master or the vault dies.
Fallout 2, find GECK or village dies, find and defeat Enclave to rescue villagers or... well... there is no more village.
Fallout 3, Escape the vault or you die, find dad or... hmm... or dad will live forever inside a virtual reality simulation, clear project purity or dad and scientists will stand outside of it forever, find GECK to make project purity work or everyone will have to keep drinking dirty water, defeat enclave or they will make project purity work and do evil things with the water (?).
You also talk about "the same beats", but Super Mutants in the classic games are nothing like the Fallout 3's Super Mutants, Ghouls are also different, Raiders are different, the Enclave still different, the Brotherhood of Steel different, Eden totally different from the Master (and defeating the Master is an important step in the first game, but making Eden explode changes nothing in the third game except the Enclave radio stopping it's transmission). While in The Force Awakens the force is still the force, the empire is still the empire, the characters from the old movie that appear are still the same, lightsabers are still lightsabers, etc. The story of both movies happen in the same universe and the rules are the same, but in terms of Fallout so much changed that it feels like an alternative universe.
And you talk about Bethesda using Fallout 3 to make new players learn about the lore of the first games, but Fallout 3 get most of the lore wrong... It is obvious they didn't even played or looked into the classic games developers documentation, it feel like they maybe played the classic games years ago and went by memory, but since they seem like they never played the first games more than once or twice and maybe many years ago, they just went with stuff they remembered (probably vaguely):
We had a dog named Dogmeat.... check
There were green Hulk-like idiots called Super Mutants.... check
There was a mutant called Harold with a tree growing on his head that he used to talk to.... check
There was these guys with power armor called Brotherhood of Steel.... check
There was these guys called Enclave with better power armor.... check
There were some kind of helicopter thing called a vertibird that belonged to the Enclave guys.... check
There was a joke coca-cola called Nuka Cola.... check
There were robots with real brains.... check
There were raiders.... check
There were deathclaws.... check
etc.
If they wanted to teach the lore of the classic games they would have kept it as close as possible as the first games, but they definitely wanted just names and symbols from those games, the rest they just made it up and made their own lore about it.
I think that Bethesda just wanted an IP so they could get some recognizable stuff from instead of have to make it all from scratch and then they just made the rest up. There is no deeper meaning on it, it was just for profits (which is and should be the goal of any company).
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Eh, to each their own.
Then again, I love Fallout 3 far more than the originals.
Then again, I love Fallout 3 far more than the originals.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
The fact the Vipers are mentioned to worship snakes makes them different from other raider groups. That's what I am saying, the raider groups are different from each other and aren't all just the same generic psychos.
The Enclave doesn't do anything with it though, until the point they raid the Vault for the GECK. In fact, unless Colonel Autumn got the vial of FEV himself, there's no way Eden could possess it unless it had the vial from before the war. As stupid as that may be, it makes more sense for a military installation to have a vial than a civilian Vault.
Doesn't mean they are good either.
They'd just lost their entire home base and had another base that was still defensible, yet they up and leave their comrades behind because some voice from the other side of the country claims to be the new President? That's ridiculous. The majority of the Enclave's citizens were on the rig, their numbers would be dangerously low and we know they won't recruit wastelanders. Leaving behind their last base only weakens them further.
I'd be more willing to buy it if Raven Rock was already an Enclave outpost, but even that's stretching it.
Also in a later post you mention Eden being in contact with Richardson, which is said on the wiki but I can't find an actual source for this. Eden makes no mention of it and none of the terminals in Raven Rock do either.
Watch the two videos I posted, MisterCaption's in particular.
And they are just sitting on their asses, hell it's the focus of a companion quest in Fallout New Vegas. The Brotherhood's power has diminished since the first game, they can't risk themselves on the surface.
Yeah, but not very good reasons.
You're also the guy who wants to see an Enclave moon base.
Just because you emulate a culture doesn't mean you're actually a part of it. A bunch of tribals dressing as Romans doesn't make them Romans.
There's no good reason for them to be there.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Eden would probably have the vial of FEV from the Enclave at Navarro base. It's something the Enclave would probably take from the original outpost on the West Coast given it's importance to their work. The difference being that subsequent Enclave members have no means of distributing it to the world until the creation of the Purifier.
The Enclave would also know about the Vault experiments with FEV because they had access to the original records--even if Poisdeon Oil Rig's survivors might not know what that means.
Well, the people stayed behind at Navarro and got slaughtered by NCR's military because they were morons who didn't realize they were going to be annihilated by the fact they had no ability to defend themselves against the wastelanders who had discovered them. They weren't going to be taken prisoner, weren't, and all ended up exterminated. They needed a secret and safe location to rebuild their numbers, which they got.
I remind you that the only reason Arcade Gannon and the Remnant survived was because they were fleeing as well via Vertibird. They crash landed or they probably would have ended up at Raven's Rock themselves.
I think it's mentioned by Word of God. However, the game makes it clear that John Henry Eden was already in the chain of command.
5:40
Yes, which is disappointing choice.
It's fun to join the Brotherhood of Steel and fight the Enclave.
MOONBASE!
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Keeping a vial of a deadly bioweapon in a supply base wouldn't be the most sensible thing to do. Unless a vertibird happened to be carrying the vial just before the Oil Rig blew up I don't see how Eden would get it.
The purifier is a shit method of distributing the FEV. Sure you kill a bunch of D.C. wastelanders, but what about the rest of the world? And most of their records would have been aboard the rig, it's not like they expected anyone to actually destroy it.
Given the numbers of Enclave troops you see in Fallout 3, there's no reason why they couldn't have defended Navarro. Eventually they'd fall, but to up and run right away because someone claimed to be the POTUS? I can't buy that.
Gannon and the remnants weren't the only ones to escape and not head East. Others were eventually discovered after integrating with the NCR or are probably still out in the wastes.
That doesn't prove Eden was in communication with Richardson, he says he was next in line for leadership but that doesn't mean they were in contact. Besides Colonel Autumn is a walking contradiction, one moment he goes on about upholding the chain of command and the next counters and disobeys Eden's orders.
It's fun to join the Brotherhood of Steel and fight the Enclave.
MOONBASE!
I played Fallout 3 first, then went back to the first two before New Vegas. I can honestly see why so many original fans take issue with 3 and 4. Bethesda have the attitude of "Wacky and cool is the best way to make a Fallout game!", which frankly in my opinion is immature and completely misunderstanding the core of Fallout.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Given they were looting Mariposa, presumably FEV was taken from there to Navarro to Poseidon. Also, we see they're conducting experiments in the base as well as on the oil rig. Hence why you can murder the doctor in the soundproof room.
Most but not all of their records. As for using the Purifier to distribute the virus, it's a virus not a poison so it'll be distributed through the ocean. But maybe not. Maybe John Henry Eden may actually just intend to wipe out the mutations in the Capital Wasteland so they can rebuild America there and go outward as the Maxson Brotherhood of Steel does to the Commonwealth.
There's a good 36 years between the events of Fallout 2 and Fallout 3. The vast majority of troopers and scientists we see in Fallout 3 are going to be the next generation of Enclave troopers. They presumably, like the Nazis, were encouraged to have large families. Even so, the simple fact was they were exposed and vulnerable with no resources to draw from. It had no supplies of gas, nuclear power, or food.
I will say, though, that the dropping FEV into the vents and killing all of the non-powered armor Enclave citizens is probably non-canonical in Fallout 2 as there's clearly a large civilian population necessary to rebuild the Enclave. Presumably, they evacuated the Oil Rig and were taken to Raven's Rock.
It would also explain why Arcade survived.
We have no evidence of them, though, and it's entirely possible Gannon and the Remnant are the only non-Enclave forces. I admit, though, I hope we'll see an Enclave conspiracy ala Captain America and the Winter Soldier some day.
It does mean some kind of contact was going on between John Henry Eden and the Enclave, though.
I honestly think Fallout 3 is the far more mature and non-humorous game. It's very moving to me and sad. Lots and lots of focus on the tragedy of nuclear war versus SCIENCE and FUN. I say that as a huge fan of SCIENCE and FUN.
Kohno
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
It is not a remake by any means. It's just a lazily written attempt at being something similiar to the games it hails to.
In a way you are right about "Force Awakens" thing, though. It too was pretty lazy rewarming of a franchise with a lot of recycled ideas.
But why? Why did they "deserve" anything at all? And more so, specifically in the way they were introduced to it by kicking the original fanbase out the door.
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D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
Bah. That's all I had to say
I think I go against most of the community here when I say that I don't really mind the presence of the Enclave and BoS in DC in itself. But I do think it was handled in a bit of a ham-fisted way. And I don't really like the Purifier main quest.
Imagine how much better the story could have been if it was about the Brotherhood and the Enclave fighting over DC and among themselves, and how their long treks across the ruins of the US had changed them.
Some of the Enclave could have realised they no longer had the power to dominate the US, and that trying to was a lost cause. Others could have had their hatred for "mutants" further cemented by losing so many comrades and family to them, turning them to full fanatics.
In the meantime, the BoS could have been sent to retrieve the mythical superweapon, "Liberty Prime", only to find it beyond repair. Some of them become disillusioned with their mission and decided to help the inhabitants of the wasteland. Others object and begin to tear the wasteland apart, determined not to have made such sacrifice for nothing.
Instead of being cartoon evil, you could talk to Enclave troopers whose only interaction with wastelanders was seeing raiders tear apart his squad when they caught them without their power armour. They'd have every reason to be hateful and terrified.
Instead of being white knights, you could talk to BoS members who were crushed by the failure of their mission, and were just trying to survive.
Imagine how much better the story could have been if it was about the Brotherhood and the Enclave fighting over DC and among themselves, and how their long treks across the ruins of the US had changed them.
Some of the Enclave could have realised they no longer had the power to dominate the US, and that trying to was a lost cause. Others could have had their hatred for "mutants" further cemented by losing so many comrades and family to them, turning them to full fanatics.
In the meantime, the BoS could have been sent to retrieve the mythical superweapon, "Liberty Prime", only to find it beyond repair. Some of them become disillusioned with their mission and decided to help the inhabitants of the wasteland. Others object and begin to tear the wasteland apart, determined not to have made such sacrifice for nothing.
Instead of being cartoon evil, you could talk to Enclave troopers whose only interaction with wastelanders was seeing raiders tear apart his squad when they caught them without their power armour. They'd have every reason to be hateful and terrified.
Instead of being white knights, you could talk to BoS members who were crushed by the failure of their mission, and were just trying to survive.