Fallout 3, who is this for?

[janjetina]

Fallout 3 or POS 2?

The way the things are shaping up, everything points to the fact that we will not like what we get in 2008 and that this game looks like to be a worthy successor to is FOS.

The game is promoted through exclusive deals with game magazines whose target audience is general public in a large but limited market (USA), while communities populated by natural target audience of a Fallout sequel, i.e. Fallout fans, are ignored. Given the PR strategy, it is very likely that original Fallout fans are not target audience for Bethesda's game in the making. Instead, the game is marketed to an "average gamer", an early teen kid or a below-5-intelligence adult, easily impressed by high resolution shiny objects, who consider fast mouse clicking a supreme virtue and are unable to hold the concentration for more than a second of dialogue. I'm stumped by the fact that Bethesda people are unable to recognize the commercial potential for a sequel staying true to the original, considering the fact that Fallout and Fallout 2 are timeless games, still played all over the world almost as it was 1998. In additon, Fallout franchise is so well-known and highly praised, that even an "average gamer" would certainly buy it if only to own "a sequel to one of the best games of all time", even without 3d first person "bling-bling" graphics.

3D first person perspective and real-time with pause seem like a spit in the face of a Fallout fan, but since they don't make the game for Fallout fans, but for console kids, it is a logical choice. No eye shots, no groin shots etc. is a good example of what we can expect - reducing the number of possibilities instead of expanding on them.

If "Oblivion-style dialogue trees" are implemented I won't touch that POS with a 10 foot pole. I mean, "Rumors" and one-word dialogue options in Fallout? All I can do is quote Sulik: "Some people have bad spirits. Todd Howard has stupid spirits. Maybe see Shaman, get hole in head." They might as well buy the rights for Planescape: Torment and make it a hack and slash festival with no text (except for occasional "Yes", "No" and "Rumors".

When they announce that enemies will be level-scaled, I will be angry for a little while. Then I'll remember that this game isn't made for me, but for Todd Howard to play with himself.

Finally, if they aren't making the game called "Fallout 3" for Fallout fans, why did they bother spending $5 million on a license? They could have just as well made a "Nuclear Oblivion" in their own generic setting (as setting really doesn't matter in a FPS, or hack and slash, or whatever mindless gaming genre without meaningful plot and dialogues)?

 

[scypior]

They are making it for themselves and yet they are saying they are Fallout fans

So....are they masochists???

 

[Orphismos]

As spadthebad pointed out, when Todd pantomimes playing a game in the Game Informer video interview, he pretends to be holding a gamepad.

Thats exacly what i was refereing to. I just couldn't find the picture.

 

[beez]

hate to say it, but i can't quite blame a game company for purchasing a very original and interesting property and adapting it to appeal to the largest possible audience (the busniess part of the house anyway, if there are any real fallout fans there, they should be ashamed of themselves)...

can't hate the consols, since i love a playstation controller like nothing else...

nope, i'm not a beth fan (haven't played any of their games, but have generally heard good things about oblivion).

basically, i thinks all the fallout fans are hosed. i'll hope for something else as well written and produced as fallout again, but i doubt it'll be a fallout game. i think what made fallout was it's lack of errort to be 'funny' or 'fallouty' or 'bigger than the original'; it was an original and was great for being just enough of everything it was.

i think i will now be compelled to play all the mods here, anyway.

 

[Brother None]

hate to say it, but i can't quite blame a game company for purchasing a very original and interesting property and adapting it to appeal to the largest possible audience (the busniess part of the house anyway, if there are any real fallout fans there, they should be ashamed of themselves)...

That's true, but I'm adding one angle I didn't explicitly state (or only hinted at): the market is saturated. The nextgen console market will not be nearly as RPG-starved by the time of Fallout 3's release as it was when Oblivion came out, nor will their half-hearted attempt at retro-50s beat out what BioShock is offering. I get who they're trying to target, despite the ending quip of the article, I do, but I don't get how you want to reach those people with a generic post-apocalyptic RTwP Action RPG.

 

[dev]

I just couldn't find the picture.

let me help you:



(no words...)

 

[Autoduel76]

That's true, but I'm adding one angle I didn't explicitly state (or only hinted at): the market is saturated. The nextgen console market will not be nearly as RPG-starved by the time of Fallout 3's release as it was when Oblivion came out, nor will their half-hearted attempt at retro-50s beat out what BioShock is offering. I get who they're trying to target, despite the ending quip of the article, I do, but I don't get how you want to reach those people with a generic post-apocalyptic RTwP Action RPG.

I think the problem here is that Bioshock comes out this August.

Even if Bioshock "beats Fallout 3" in terms of the 50's retro feel, I don't think that would have much of a negative impact on Fallout 3, coming out over a year later. In fact, you could argue that if Bioshock is a great game, a year later many of the people that loved Bioshock could see it as "the next" Bioshock and that, in that way, some people that might not have been interested in it otherwise could buy it.

And the next gen consoles are still going to be fairly light on RPGs at that time, other than Japanses RPGs. The only Western RPGs that will be out by then are Oblivion, Mass Effect, Two Worlds and, maybe Fable.

Assuming that Oblivion was a successful product, I just cant see anyway that Fallout 3 does any worse than it did. The Xbox 360 has double the userbase that it had when Oblivion released, right now.

Console gamers, and Oblivion fans, will most likely eat up Fallout 3.

 

[Starseeker]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Todd tried to make a FF style game next. Maybe SquareEnix can hire him? Or Sony? Just like how Sega America was stupid enough to hire the guy that got fired from Sony America?

The thing is - Just like I have suggested in the Evil Path thread, moral ambiguity isn't just good guy v.s bad guys. Or.., something Todd will understand, Cammona (forgot how to spelll that) Tong v.s. The Imperial guards.

Another thing is the humor that Kharn has brought up, like how they ask you to do a quest in FO1, but they don't expect you to "actually" do it. This is funny compare to a lot of other RPGs where you are "expected" to complete whatever delivery crap you are assigned to. An extreme case would probably be FF X-2.

One of my favorite theme from the Shadow Hearts series is the "ideal" of judgment ring. Thought - Action - Consequence. And the consequences itself will farther influence the choices and reactions people have towards you. But one of my favorite thing about the FO games is the "oops" moment. I think everyone has their own stories playing FO games where an unintended action/choice has a funny, unpredictable, violent or even good consequences. (I.E. Giving a gun to a Wright Kid.) Good intentions can sometimes end in destruction and bad intentions sometimes resulted in something glorious. (Like something completely off the wall, i.e. Per's stories in his FO2 walkthrough) The best thing is..., you can still keep on playing! You won't get stuck with a dead end quest, or die with stupid moral causes.

Anyway, Todd should get a job as a console developer.., is anything listening? MS? Sony? Square?

 

[Morbus]

Anyway, if I could edit the article, I'd change the closing statement. They aren't making it for themselves, they're making it for console gamers...

They ARE console gamers.

As spadthebad pointed out, when Todd pantomimes playing a game in the Game Informer video interview, he pretends to be holding a gamepad.

Ahah, I noticed that Anyway, it's no surprise since the press demo was running on a Xbox 360...

 

[Tannhauser]

By the way, remember this old questionnaire by Todd Howard?

On an average Saturday afternoon I...

Play Xbox 360. Currently trying to break a million on Geometry Wars, but I also currently suck at it, so that may take a while.

[. . .]

And in my personal life [the achievement that I'm most proud of is], it's...

My wife. She will actually duck, even crawl, when she walks in front of the TV and I’m playing a game. She’s a saint. How I found a woman to put up with me still amazes my family.

 

[Makagulfazel]

I can't wait until viruses sweep across XBox Live.
All the people in my generation will be too stupid to avoid them and will get their pretty little boxes infected with a dozen of them. I'm sure someone will work around the digital signing Microsoft requires.

 

[Brother None]

Autoduel; you may be right, but I'm guessing you're wrong. If you actually think any post-apocalyptic RPG with negative word of mouth can outsell the most hyped vanilla fantasy RPG of the decade, you're delusional, tho'.

Also, added this paragraph, on humor:
Some examples of Fallout's dark irony; the fact that FEV, designed to save civilized mankind (USA) from the barbaric hordes (China) ends up threatening humanity twice (Unity, Enclave). The fact that nuclear bombs, which brought down civilization, end up saving it twice (Cathedral, Oil Rig). The fact that you get kicked out of your vault after saving it. Some examples of Fallout's ludicrous situations: the way Cabbot of the BoS reacts if you tell him you want to join and again when you return, the way Butch Harris reacts when you start talking about deathclaws and the conversation you have with him when you return to solve the quest, the fact that you can tell Lou in the middle of his torture-interrogation "[I'll tell you] On one condition, pal....Put a bag over your head so I can stand being in your presence."

 

[junkevil]

fo3 is definetly not being made for fallout fans. its being made for oblivion fans who wanted something very similar but a bit darker. i don't believe this will be a good game by any stretch of the imagination. i think it will be what everyone has really said from the start, "oblivion with guns."

then again, i'm a "bad" fallout fan and consequently am banned from the bethsoft forums. so what does my opinion matter...

 

[Autoduel76]

then again, i'm a "bad" fallout fan and consequently am banned from the bethsoft forums. so what does my opinion matter...

IIRC, you were banned for posting about how you got Oblivion without paying and would do the same for Fallout.

 

[Tannhauser]

junkevil, we don't permit any discussion about warez here.

The Bethesda forums seem tolerant of people critical towards Bethesda, as long as their posts remain reasonable. They don't permit trolling or flaming, and some topics of discussions are prohibited, but the forum standards are not hidden. I encourage anyone who posts there to behave to mature manner, you should encounter only minimal problems with the BSGF moderators if you do.

 

[Pope Viper]

It might not be the case in this thread, but any talk of warez/piracy is not allowed.

Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Tom_Sawyer]

They might as well buy the rights for Planescape: Torment and make it a hack and slash festival with no text (except for occasional "Yes", "No" and "Rumors".

Just wanted to clarify.

Although I highly doubt that any of Bethesda team would put down their consoles to come her to read the forums please DO NOT give them the idea of ruining my favorite fantasy RPG that being Torment

"what can change the nature of a man....."

 

[junkevil]

junkevil, we don't permit any discussion about warez here.

The Bethesda forums seem tolerant of people critical towards Bethesda, as long as their posts remain reasonable. They don't permit trolling or flaming, and some topics of discussions are prohibited, but the forum standards are not hidden. I encourage anyone who posts there to behave to mature manner, you should encounter only minimal problems with the BSGF moderators if you do.

nonono, you misunderstand. i said that i played these games without paying for them, that is not equal to piracy or warez though. i'm not trying to break your rules by replying to this, but i feel like i should clarify, and surely being kicked from two sites in one week would not exactly be my goal.

to clarify a bit further: when i played oblivion it was on an xbox 360, i don't own one of those either. i didn't pay for the game at all, i do however spend alot of time hanging out with friends.

please don't ban me for this.

 

[Tannhauser]

Okay, I understand. However, when people talk about playing something they haven't paid for online, they usually mean piracy. You won't be banned, just watch out for future misunderstandings, okay?

You might try getting in contact with whoever banned you on the BSGF and explaining your case.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

And the next gen consoles are still going to be fairly light on RPGs at that time, other than Japanses RPGs. The only Western RPGs that will be out by then are Oblivion, Mass Effect, Two Worlds and, maybe Fable.

Assuming that Oblivion was a successful product, I just cant see anyway that Fallout 3 does any worse than it did. The Xbox 360 has double the userbase that it had when Oblivion released, right now.

Console gamers, and Oblivion fans, will most likely eat up Fallout 3.

How many console gamers are western RPG fans though? How many bought Oblivion because it was a hyped game that looked good on a new console that didn't have a lot of games ready? How many will have played Oblivion watched the lord of the rings trilogy and expect an rpg to have orcs and elves etc, and will be put off by the guns?

How many casual gamers will see it as a shooter? Will the tv adverts promote the combat or the roleplaying for the 360 version?

How many shooters will be out on the 360 by 2008