Fallout 3 will, y'know, like...not be at E3

[frissy]

Europeans say : Of course we thought about that (wtf is he talking about?)

Americans: Y'know (we don't know, you might know..i have no idea)

Quite normal, but for a PR person...Christ.
________
3200 CS

 

[Tannhauser]

If you look to your right, you will observe your common variety troll, frolicking in it's native habitat. Remember not to feed it, anything you might give it will upset it's carefully balanced diet.

I only wish we had a more original specimen on display. Instead, we have the misfortune of having a rather derivative example of the species. Better luck on our next tour.

 

[Daemon Spawn]

Deafeatist Mentality

Slightly less of a Defeatist Mentality, but it is still in there

It is much much easier to take the passive approach, hoping that things turn out okay; watching things unfold; accepting all the results as they are.

I understand the mentality. It strives to be "hands-off" to relieve the pressure from the developers to allow them to create the best possible thing they create. It assumes that we have virtually no power to influence, other than in a negative way.

I also understand your concerns over not having any concrete evidence about the game. There are no formal releases about any game content or whatever. But what they have given us regarding the game has been quite unacceptable. Crappy PR, crappy statements regarding Fallout3's relationship to Oblivion, and a history of (at best) inconsistent game production, and at worst, a history of crappy games. This is where you have to take an active approach in dealing with these people. You have to Demand quality, and not just allow them to ruin shit, and take a "hands-off" approach.

The "hands-off" mentality has some good sides to it. But I feel it is a weak mentality. A defeatist attitude. One where you become resigned to fate, and do not believe you can control whatever happens.

It is harder, IMO, to criticize things that should not be the way they are. To demand a quality product, and to hold people accountable for the product they make, and not be resigned to fate. Do not accept whatever they give. Be discerning, and actively try to change whatever is happening that you don't like.

Walk away from the situation and hope that it turn out okay? Or be involved and criticize, aid, and review everything, thus challenging and hopefully changing the content of the product?

Yes, trash-talking and insulting Bethesda gets us nowhere, I agree. But it sure beats sitting idly and praying for the quality that you wish Fallout3 should be.

Do not feed the trolls.

I don't know if these guys are trolls. They seem like individuals who actually believe what they say. But yes, true, there are the 2 and 3 post counts for them, and such... and also Roshambo has been angry lately...

 

[zioburosky13]

On a final note, I'm really starting to wonder if some of the people here really want Fallout 3. To me it seems more like you want to cuddle up with your Fallout box in hand, thumb in your mouth, and rock back and forth while cursing Bethesda for screwing up the one game that keeps you clinging to life.

The reason why hardcore Fallout fans keep bashing Bethe is because of the previous Fallout : POS game... (REal time hacking! Eww! )
No body wants their precious turn into steaming pile of poo...

They should fire him.

To me he seems to has the same 'mental-level' as Todd...

 

[SumsoluS]

"this is our franchise and we're acting as if, y'know"

I don't know. Does anyone know? He doesn't know.

This is like watching a bullet move in slow motion in a room full of jam, the target being the spirit of Fallout. The gunman is not a very good aim, its possible he's going to keep missing. But one day he will eventually hit. And all the originality, style, brains and brains and some more brains, will splatter everywhere and be mopped up. The carcass of Fallout will then be raped by the silly gunman and he will be paid much for it by the cheering mass numbers "iwantAKSHUNNOW" crowd.

Now I'm going back to hibernate until a game that requires fucking brains and doesnt censor the word "fucking" comes out.

Forever I guess.

 

[Egis]

I wonder what he thinks we shoud know ? But y'know were screwed. They wont show a single screen until its too late to change anything important and theyll just shovel the crap to the oblivion/hell who knows what fans.

 

[Silencer]

The higher up the chain you go the lower on the I.Q. you go.

Actually, the higher the chain,the smaller the balls are.

 

[Josan]

The higher up the chain you go the lower on the I.Q. you go.

Actually, the higher the chain,the smaller the balls are.

Actually, it's both in this case.

And yeah, Hines has a gift for public speaking y'know. As I said in the other Hines thread, I've heard Grade 8 students more gifted in oratory skills.

 

[Sytxferryman]

The higher up the chain you go the lower on the I.Q. you go.

Actually, the higher the chain,the smaller the balls are.

That to

 

[sunny jim]

if i was pete, and i entered the forums in this site, and if pete has any affect on the game's outcome, i would do anything possible to make it as opposite as i can of what this community wants the game to be... i mean, we're the fans who anticipate this game more than anyone else, so fuck us with how we blast pete on every occasion...

then again, it's pete's fault he's doing the act-a-fool routine sometimes...
we are not going to change pete, and we won't get him fired from his job(most probably)... all we can do is just piss him off... i mean, why don't they reveal the things they did so far? because they know what the reaction will be... if they knew that things were quiet if they said anything about the game(for better or for worse), i have a feeling that we would know more about bethesda's fallout 3 right now.

and if in this interview he says they are not rushing things, it can't be a bad sign... i would rather like a good fallout 3 in 2008 than a crappy one in 2006... we already waited for 8 years for a sequal(no other real reason for this community between us), 10 years won't kill us.

 

[Brother None]

What bothers me, and what should bother you guys too, is that so far before actual production he has already found his "send the fans packing" line. One of those zany catch-phrases that PR guys get paid thousands of bucks for only to be ridiculed by the actual consumer.

"We're treating Fallout like it's ours, like we developed the first two games. We're treating it exactly like Oblivion."

Expect this in infinite-loop for the coming months. Pete has found his zany Fallout catchphrase.

And it sucks.

And he doesn't even see how much it sucks. He doesn't understand we don't want to hear that they're all putting their fingers in their ears, going "lalalala" and living in an imaginary world where Bethesda made Fallout 1 and 2. That world doesn't exist, there's no need to pretend it does.

What we want to hear is "We think the achievements of the makers of the original Fallout CRPGs are awesome and are going to do our best to study and respect their way of gamemaking." That shows a lot more promise than a team of developers running around in imaginary fairy-land, does it not?

 

[sunny jim]

bethesda believes in it's skills and they think their way and their style will acomodate fallout well. they will be much too proud to say "the guys before us are the fallout gods and we will follow their footsteps". even if they think this is true, they won't say it.

 

[Josan]

Then that's simply foolish arrogance and pride on their part.

There's no shame in paying "tribute/respect" to what came before. In fact, it might even garner them just a little respect.

 

[Per]

But when Fo3 was announced in 2004 some people said they were hoping for a 2005 release! Could they really have been wrong?

 

[Roshambo]

If you look to your right, you will observe your common variety troll, frolicking in it's native habitat. Remember not to feed it, anything you might give it will upset it's carefully balanced diet.

Of what? Stupidity and cluelessness? Wrong forum for that, then, since we pretty much want what every other sequel-desiring fan base wants. To play a sequel, not a compromised design created on laziness or trend.

Since the latest batch of trolls obviously didn't read the other threads, obviously don't know why Fallout was initially designed the way it was, and obviously missed a load of information from the lead himself, they have since been rewarded for their advocation of crap without bothering to read anything to clue them in.

I only wish we had a more original specimen on display. Instead, we have the misfortune of having a rather derivative example of the species. Better luck on our next tour.

Indeed. Now only if we could get some that could think about design rather than try to crawl up Bethesda's ass. HAH! Good luck...

 

[Daemon Spawn]

The sad thing about all this trolling is not that they are stupid or clueless, per se. They just don't care as much as we do about quality.

They see what makes Fallout so great, and understand the reasons for it. They would not be here if they didn't recognize Fallout's greatness. What they don't understand is the ruinous nature of their generic consumer mentality. They are willing to compromise mediocrity for the sake of speed, quantity, eye candy, etc. Some trolls just don't get it that the industry cannot self-regulate, and others just don't care. And the sad part is the ones that don't care, because they should know better. I often found myself staring into the hole of apathy towards the gaming industry, but every time I have to dig myself out and remember why great games are so few and far between. A demanding consumer yields quality products. An apathetic consumer gets shit. And I still don't know why these people either don't know this yet, or just don't care. They don't even care enough to make a decent argument supporting their views..

Hmmm...so I guess in the end, they are clueless and stupid. The circle completes itself...

 

[TheWesDude]

1) the reason that FO 1 and 2 were isometric-sprite was not so much because of graphical limitations but as its not very feasable to do an interface for TB in 3D.

2) if FO 3 is not TB, then it would be more in the footsteps of FO:BOS than it would be FO 1 and 2. which following would you want to garner? the FO:BOS or the FO 1 and 2 type? which would sell you more games? which would make you more money?

3) if there is nothing like prostitutes and vulgarity in it then it would not be following the "world" that has been established.

4) i have played lots of bethesda games including the elder scrolls series and all i have been left with is a desire to play fallout or ultima games.

 

[Gnol]

Deafeatist Mentality

Slightly less of a Defeatist Mentality, but it is still in there

It is much much easier to take the passive approach, hoping that things turn out okay; watching things unfold; accepting all the results as they are.

If this were my mentality, do you think I would have bothered to write my original post in this thread? While there are certainly more important things going on in the world than computer games, I, too, am a fan of Fallout, and like you, visit NMA daily for my dose of <s>radiation</s> information, and even very occasionally to share my thoughts.

I understand the mentality.

Honestly, thank you for trying (and succeeding) to do this. It's more effort than some others put in, and it's the only basis a worthwhile discussion can be built upon (sorry for my somewhat unelegant english, I'm not a native speaker).

It strives to be "hands-off" to relieve the pressure from the developers to allow them to create the best possible thing they create.

Yes, to a point.

I'm not saying we (the fans) shouldn't give any feedback or shouldn't make suggestions at all. I'm just saying we should keep our feedback constructive and give the developers the benefit of doubt until we see evidence of an aspect of the game we don't agree with (and I don't think "I think Bethesda shouldn't have taken up the franchise in the first place" qualifies as being very constructive). In dubio pro reo.

I trust these people to try and make a good game of Fallout 3 - and when I see something solid (and we haven't seen anything concrete yet, AFAIK), I'll then look at it, and if necessary, of course criticize (sp?) it. Constructively.

It assumes that we have virtually no power to influence, other than in a negative way.

No If this were my assumption, I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of writing this, because anything anyone of us says wouldn't have any impact on the outcome of the game.

I realize that we as fans have some power, and all I'm asking for is to use it wisely. By crying foul every time this game is mentioned anywhere we're invalidating our opinion, and thus forfeiting the power to change things later on that might really matter, because by that time no one is listening to us anymore.

I also understand your concerns over not having any concrete evidence about the game. There are no formal releases about any game content or whatever. But what they have given us regarding the game has been quite unacceptable. Crappy PR,

As if anyone of us gives a shit about PR. If they had good PR, everybody would be crying "Their PR department is running the whole company! PR people are useless, spineless liars anyway, look at how good he is at twisting words!". He obviously isn't very good with words, and now that is the reason he is being bashed. There just isn't any way to win for them, and we don't even know anything concrete. Y'know, I find his... ahem... "style" funny, too, and joking about this has to be expected - but don't you think this is going a bit too far?

crappy statements regarding Fallout3's relationship to Oblivion,

The only three official statements with direct reference to the relationship between Fallout and Oblivion I could find:

Todd Howard: Oblivion has been in development since 2002, so getting the Fallout license recently hasn't changed our plans for Oblivion at all. By their nature, I don't think they compete with each other. They will be very different games--not just in style, but in how they play.
source: http://www.nma-fallout.com/archive.php?year=2004&month=10 (linking doesn't seem to work on these, sorry)


MrSmileyFaceDude: Fallout 3 will be very, very different from Oblivion (or any other TES game). It won't be "Morrowind with guns". It won't even be "Oblivion with guns".
source: http://www.nma-fallout.com/archive.php?year=2005&month=05


This last one has an important (and very fair!) addendum by Kharn:

Pete Hines: I would say to them [the fans] that you can take a look at Oblivion in terms of what to expect from us. What I mean is, we take our projects seriously. We make sure we put in the requisite time to do them right. And, we tend not to really talk about them or even let people know we’re doing them until we’re a long way into development and actually have things we can show and talk about. So with Fallout 3, folks were made aware of it because of the announcement, but from a development standpoint we’re still in pre-production mode. It will be a LONG time before we start talking to folks about what we’re up to. I know they’d like more info, but as I said we really don’t plan to say anything until we’ve made some real progress.

Kharn: I think "look at Oblivion in terms of what to expect from us" is a rather poor choice of words, since people will draw the wrong conclusion. Before anyone's confused, he means we can expect the same long, careful development and not-saying-too-much that people know from TES.
source: http://www.nma-fallout.com/archive.php?year=2005&month=08


So the only really solid Info we have is that it will use the Oblivion Engine (which is apparently powerful but demanding - though FO3 is still a ways off and what is High End Hardware now will not be top-of-the-line-hella-expensive anymore when it ships), that it's done by Bethesda, and that it is not going to be a Post-Apocalyptic Elder Scrolls game. IMHO, this is hardly alarming and actually a little reassuring. They have said more than once, most recently in the blurb we're just discussing about, that they want to treat Fallout 3 as well as it deserves to be treated.

and a history of (at best) inconsistent game production, and at worst, a history of crappy games.

I must admit I haven't played any of their games because I'm not that big a fan of "medieval" fantasy RPGs. The last one with this theme I enjoyed was Ambermoon on my best friend's Amiga

This is where you have to take an active approach in dealing with these people. You have to Demand quality, and not just allow them to ruin shit, and take a "hands-off" approach.

OK. You want to be cautious, I want to give the developers some backing by the ones this game is most important to - us, the fans. We can actually do both. Be cautious, be on the lookout for solid info that might not bode well, but at the same time not showing a pavlovesque knee-jerk reaction at their every move.

Let's be hard, but fair, constructively critical, not destructively. That's all I'm asking for, and I think this will be in the interest of us all, because I think this way we can help them make a better game. We can't do that if the label "NMA" automatically triggers their ignore-reflex because there can't possibly be anything that would please the hardcore fans at NMA.

I think Feargus Urqhart summarized it quite well:

Any last word to the Fallout fan base?

Chill OUT! What I mean by that is that you guys might get more of what you want by accepting that Fallout 3 might never be made and to help the developers and publishers make the Fallout games they are working on successful. With a part of that success being that they follow the fell of the Fallout world. If you guys just tell them how dumb Fallout Morrowind will be than it might turn out be less of a Fallout game because people tend to ignore those that call them stupid every third word. If the Fallout games that are being made are successful then that can only increase the chance of Fallout 3 actually being made.

The "hands-off" mentality has some good sides to it. But I feel it is a weak mentality. A defeatist attitude. One where you become resigned to fate, and do not believe you can control whatever happens.

See, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is being constructive and fair, and preserving your power for the worthwhile fights. It's not wise to go Full Burst on rats when you expect deathclaws to lure down the way.

It is harder, IMO, to criticize things that should not be the way they are. To demand a quality product, and to hold people accountable for the product they make, and not be resigned to fate. Do not accept whatever they give. Be discerning, and actively try to change whatever is happening that you don't like.

It seems to be especially hard to fairly, productively and unoffensively criticize for some here. Anyway, there really isn't a whole lot to be discerning about at the moment, so don't shoot your load before you have something to shoot at (Not you, the whole community).

I applaud your demanding a quality product, critical consumers are vitally important. Just don't forget that the products you're talking about are made by real people with real feelings, and that sometimes a little Fingerspitzengefühl can go a long way in convincing other people of your point of view. Certainly more so than belittling them and making them not want to listen to you.

Walk away from the situation and hope that it turn out okay? Or be involved and criticize, aid, and review everything, thus challenging and hopefully changing the content of the product?

For hardcore fans, the latter is the only choice, of course. When there are facts to review and criticize, and if we all keep it civil.

Yes, trash-talking and insulting Bethesda gets us nowhere, I agree.

Thank you

But it sure beats sitting idly and praying for the quality that you wish Fallout3 should be.

And being fair and constructive in your criticism certainly beats both options. And when there's nothing to criticize yet, just wait and see. We've waited for so long, surely we can wait another few months before the first concrete data begins to show.

Do not feed the trolls.

I don't know if these guys are trolls. They seem like individuals who actually believe what they say. But yes, true, there are the 2 and 3 post counts for them, and such... and also Roshambo has been angry lately...

I didn't join just to post this comment, as you'll see if you take a look at my join date. It's just that I'd rather keep silent when I've got nothing constructive to say.

 

[Roshambo]

If this were my mentality, do you think I would have bothered to write my original post in this thread? While there are certainly more important things going on in the world than computer games, I, too, am a fan of Fallout, and like you, visit NMA daily for my dose of <s>radiation</s> information, and even very occasionally to share my thoughts.

So that explains why you have this misconception about the development, when you obviously haven't read many of the other things Todd and Pete have said, and not in just recent times.

Really, if you want to lie about reading the site and news, then you might want to put some more effort behind faking it. I'm about to make the previous thread about this required reading in order to reply to this, because it points out numerous things clueless trolls like you don't bother to apply in your vacuous asskissing.

And we can also look at the fact that Bethesda has never developed a turn-based or tactical game in any sense of either term. You say that Bethesda are such great developers, when it's pretty much like expecting a deep, interactive CRPG from Blizzard. When the FUCK has Blizzard EVER made anything but action-based games? So why would you expect them to make a game nowhere near their design preferences?

The action-adventure stat system of Morrowind that TES has been rendered into is not anywhere close to the design of Fallout, so why are you suddenly expecting Fallout to spring from the ass of people who could manage to fuck up TES?!

I truly believe their own words, even though most are too cowardly to explain themselves in depth.

"We will do what we do best."

"[Fallout's design] is not what we do best."

Also puts it pretty clear. I'm glad you like to reward failure, but there's been two failures in the Fallout franchise already, and from the stink of how Bethesda is treating this, it aims to be a third. Then don't forget the HayT mail. That thread should be quite illuminating, as it quotes several parts of Bethesda's PR and developer words, and not just HayT's rather ignorant bullshit.

 

[Daemon Spawn]

Constructive Criticism

I can dig it. Good post.