Fallout 3's "200 endings"

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Fallout 3: A Post Nuclear Blog brings us a longer transcript of the recent OXM podcast.<blockquote> OXM: Have the number of endings been finalized…..how’s that coming along?

Todd Howard: Being that we are Bethesda…everything gets a bit big. So as of last week we’re over 200 endings. That is not an exaggeration, but it deserves some description. 200 endings…that’s a lot. So originally when we started, we had various iterations of the ending. The ending is kind of cinematic, that’s dynamic based on the things you’ve done.

When we started, it was kind of fuzzy, it was like “well there’s like 9 maybe 12″ and we started adding things to it. So if you had done this or not this, you’d get this other tweak to the ending. And we kept doing that. And you know even just two weeks ago someone had this idea, “Oh we should add this idea to the ending” (sorry I’m not going to spoil what that is). And I said, “oh that’s a genius idea, we have to do that.” But then it became, “oh, but there’s four versions of that.” So i was like, “okay there’s like four different versions of that part,” and that multiplies by, at the time we were at about 60 endings…so now there’s four versions of that, so now there are around 240 versions.”

The games on paper when we get started…they’re alot smaller, and then as we go they get bigger…we can’t stop ourselves. We’re have tons of people with good ideas here, and if they’re good and fit the tone, we’re going to try to jam as much into the game as possible. Fallout is probably twice the size of what we originally had on paper…it’s pretty big, so that’s what’s happened with the endings.

So some of that stuff is the big things of what you do very late in the game, some of those are things like your karma — how you’ve lived your life from the beginning of the game — you get certain scenes based on your karma. But we kind of like the ending as much as like the game itself at the beginning is you tailoring your character and then you play throughout this game, and unlike Elder Scrolls, where it’s a game where you can keep playing, Fallout 3 has a definite ending. So we wanted to go to efforts to make sure that the actual ending you get when you finish and get the ending, and make that ending reflect and make it individual to the user’s experience. We’ve definitely gone a little overboard.</blockquote>This appears to be confusing some people and to be honest, Todd's being very vague. But he appears to be talking about Fallout 1/2-style permutations (the "ending slides"), in which case 200 really isn't all that much. Per explains:<blockquote>Fo1 has 19 different endings, with 360 possible permutations. Fo2 has 47 endings with 1,105,920 permutations. If 200 is the number of permutations for Fo3, they are seriously behind. That would correspond to maybe 10-20 endings. But I'm assuming they'd have to be talking about permutations since you should know when designing a game whether you'll have ~12 or ~200 endings. You don't accidentally hop from 12 to 200 endings late in the development process and send in an order for 188 additional voiceovers from Ron Perlman (because he will KILL YOU). With permutations it would be thinkable, at least.</blockquote>AI programmer Jay Woodward appears to be in agreement here, as we calculate that 255 permutations only requires 8 different yes-no variables (2^8-1).
 
It certainly isn't as many as the previous games. However, the way he describes it makes it sound like they are animated, which certainly ups the effort of creating "variations". So while I wish there were more, I am hoping they are a little more fleshed out the Fallout1/2 ending "variations".
 
It would be neat to have an end cutscene consisting of several "changeable" cutscenes for each major area of the game, all glued together.

Kinda like Fallout, except Fallout only had slides.
 
If anybody saw the IGN story for this they actually sound amazed that there are 200 endings and they say: "Bethesda is trying to make the ending (and the game does have a definite ending) as tailored to your journey as it possibly can be."

Go Go PR machine!
 
My coworkers wouldn't shut up about the 200 endings at work today, I knew right off the bat they were ending slides. Todd says in such a way to confuse the fuck of people that never played fallout, and it is working wonders. :roll: PR at its best I guess....
 
Dang, I forgot to put my name on the 'Comment' thingie again... Anyway, at least they have added to the length somewhat. Their estimate is now around 80 hours. So, we should have around 40 hours of playtime out of it. Maybe they will refine the art to more Fallout-y dark architecture somewhat in their 'polishing' process, because the buildings I've seen so far are bland... Or perhaps I'm not looking hard enough.
 
bazola said:
If anybody saw the IGN story for this they actually sound amazed that there are 200 endings and they say: "Bethesda is trying to make the ending (and the game does have a definite ending) as tailored to your journey as it possibly can be."

That's pretty much true.

I mean, the whole point of the ending variables in Fallout 1 and 2 was to make the ending slides match up with player actions in the game.

Of course, it'd be less hype-y if Bethesda came out and just went "yeah, remember what Fallout 1 and 2 did? We're doing that." Instead we get a lot of misunderstanding spreading through the internet, possibly culminating in people thinking this is something new or unique.

Another good job by Bethesda's PR.

By now, the reaction is devolving into this (courtesy of slipgate_angel)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQF3PEkgzcY[/youtube]
Nology said:
Dang, I forgot to put my name on the 'Comment' thingie again...

That was you?

Please don't newssubmit things that are already on the frontpage. The 200 ending thing was already in our news, we didn't really care what kotaku had to say.

Boy, you have no idea how annoying all those newssubmits with news we already posted are.
 
I had submitted it when the latest news was still the 'Shannon Bailey in the Vault' one. Sorry, man.
 
Yes, and two days before the Shannon Bailey post we posted a newspost entitled "Todd Howard speaks on OXM podcast", the first line quoted being:
Over 200 endings, since last week. The 12 endings was surpassed long ago.

So yeah, we already knew the 200 endings bit.

But it's ok in the end. Better to have too much news tips submitted then too few.
 
Well, 200 is a good start, as they say... let's just hope they do it the right way- so the mechanism is dynamic, so I can go and kill the person I just saved because I just like it and get the right ending reporting that indeed the person died... :look: unlike in the Fallouts :P

Besides, if the end product is good, the game shall have continuation under Beth, so this can be improved on the next, yes it's a big if88.
 
200 is just devolution in my opinion. To me this new news clarified the speculation about whether it was permutations, and it is. 200 permutations is not spectacular in any way. It's marketing to convince console jockeys that Bethesda is taking gaming in a new direction. I mean in one sense I like that they are at least doing something interesting, but with just 200 odd permutations it is going to be very simplistic, and in the end the player will have the feeling that the gameworld wasn't tailored to his actions unless he follows one of the 200 exact lines they are drawing.

Yes in the Fallouts this was the case also. However they were made many years ago. Rather than 3d and real time first person action, I would love a game that was perfectly tailored to the way I played through it. It is a lot of work but imagine the replay value.

Of course this sentiment isn't new, but this website is the only place I feel I can express it repeatedly :)
 
They kept the idea. That means something, at least for me. Go Bethesda (just go reasonably good)!

Still eager to play it. I want to see what they have tinkered with.
 
bazola said:
I mean in one sense I like that they are at least doing something interesting, but with just 200 odd permutations it is going to be very simplistic, and in the end the player will have the feeling that the gameworld wasn't tailored to his actions unless he follows one of the 200 exact lines they are drawing.

Yes in the Fallouts this was the case also. However they were made many years ago. Rather than 3d and real time first person action, I would love a game that was perfectly tailored to the way I played through it. It is a lot of work but imagine the replay value.

All the above is a gigantic load of crap.

Gaming hasn't progressed in interactivity since Fallout, if anything, it's regressed. And knowledge and technology to better game's reactivity hasn't actually become that much more readily available over 10 years time.

The Fallout slideshows worked neigh-perfectly. Try to expand into some kind of Molyneux-esque "full reactivity" is just inviting in bugs.

And hell, I'd argue the intent of the Fallout slideshow endings wasn't "replay value", because if you want replay value you'll go for pretty cutscenes. No. Rather, it was to make the player feel like the choices he made during the game actually mattered.

Honestly, their number of permutations is on the low side, but otherwise this is all good news.
 
I have a feeling that Bethesdas hyping of 200+ endings is going to backfire a tad.

I bet a lot of people is going to get the hype literarily as in 200 actual different endings.

Imagine the disappointet console-kid going: 'Aw, what the hell? This is the same ending I got on my last play through, only with one slide missing. 200 endings my arse, Bethesda! You even wrote it on the front of the keep case! Thats it! I'm never playing a Bethesda game ever again! ... oooh, Oblivion!'

It's not like Bethesda has had any scruples about disappointing people in the past.
It's just never been this group getting disappointed.
 
Jack The Knife said:
I have a feeling that Bethesdas hyping of 200+ endings is going to backfire a tad.

I bet a lot of people is going to get the hype literarily as in 200 actual different endings.

Imagine the disappointet console-kid going: 'Aw, what the hell? This is the same ending I got on my last play through, only with one slide missing. 200 endings my arse, Bethesda! You even wrote it on the front of the keep case! Thats it! I'm never playing a Bethesda game ever again! ... oooh, Oblivion!'

It's not like Bethesda has had any scruples about disappointing people in the past.
It's just never been this group getting disappointed.

Backfired a lot actually. They tried to explain what those endings really mean, but the message isn't getting through.

The main concern seems to be "how can I get all of the achievements now omg!!!".

240 permutations is more streamlined than previously, and I still don't quite get how karma has such a big role, but it's fine by me.
 
Briosafreak said:
240 permutations is more streamlined than previously, and I still don't quite get how karma has such a big role, but it's fine by me.
Well, if we take it literary, the 200, is actually 5*5*2*2*2. So that's three big yes/no. 5 npc endings and Karma alignment, as in Very good/Good/Neutral/Bad/Bad ass. :(
 
Jarno Mikkola said:
Briosafreak said:
240 permutations is more streamlined than previously, and I still don't quite get how karma has such a big role, but it's fine by me.
Well, if we take it literary, the 200, is actually 5*5*2*2*2. So that's three big yes/no. 5 npc endings and Karma alignment, as in Very good/Good/Neutral/Bad/Bad ass. :(

Oh makes sense. I see.
 
shihonage said:
It would be neat to have an end cutscene consisting of several "changeable" cutscenes for each major area of the game, all glued together.

Kinda like Fallout, except Fallout only had slides.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm gonna regret saying that), but doesnt FO3 use the engine to render the 'cutscences' in 3d rather than actual pre-rendered movie files. If so then each alternate 'ending' or permutation could be quite easily be scripted for the engine to just render a different animation and then just play it all in the correct order with the relavent voice over.

So the endings will basicaly be the same style as FO1/FO2 but have a 3D animation for each "Location Epilogue" instead of a still slide. I think this will be a nice touch, but it's kind of just an obvious next step if you are using a 3d engine rather than a sprite based engine.

But like the other are saying to get to 200 hundred differnt variations you onyl need to have two outcomes for each location if you have eight town locations.
 
At least they are staying true to the "what you do affects the end you get" bit. I wonder how that'll work out in a completely different environment. And i do hope those are 200 genuinely different endings, not something like


Ending #46: YOU SAVED THE WORLD AND EVERYONE IS GRATEFUL, YOU HAVE CASH, ALCOHOL AND HOOKERS. Except that little Jimmy has cut his wrist. You killed his parents for two dollars, you asshole.

Ending #47: YOU SAVED THE WORLD AND EVERYONE IS GRATEFUL, YOU HAVE CASH, ALCOHOL AND HOOKERS. And little Jimmy lived happily ever after, knowing you saved his parents from that rabid seagull.

But i'm probably kidding myself here.
 
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