Fallout 4 is not "Skyrim with guns."

What Skyrim has going for it is enough ambiguity in the vanilla game to be able to mod it into something really fun. FO4's world will be awesome when one of the many talented modders out there make a Dust/Pandemic mod for it, not that that excuses the games vanilla content.
 
Just because you can become leader of factions in Morrowind does not make that equal the ease by which you are GIVEN leadership in Skyrim and Fallout 4. Skyrim and Fallout 4 GIVE you these positions after minimal effort, and Fallout 4 even gives it to you at the beginning without doing anything - General of The Minutemen. Childrens' games have that kind of writing.

Morrowind and even Oblivion made do much more.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
Just because you can become leader of factions in Morrowind does not make that equal the ease by which you are GIVEN leadership in Skyrim and Fallout 4. Skyrim and Fallout 4 GIVE you these positions after minimal effort, and Fallout 4 even gives it to you at the beginning without doing anything - General of The Minutemen. Childrens' games have that kind of writing.

Morrowind and even Oblivion made do much more.
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To Skyrim's defense... the factions that you end up heading up are much smaller in scale.

It's not like you become the head of a fighter's guild that spans an entire continent, or even region. At the end of the day, the companions are a rather sorry bunch. In terms of pure numbers, you're only the chief of a group about the same size as a Baldur's Gate party. And you don't recruit, if I remember correctly.

The thieves' guild is a bit of a ruin that you help rebuild... Only the mages college has a kind of 'impressive' thing about it. But even so, it's miles from the aura that the Mages guild had in Morrowind, with the teleporters from location to location etc. It's in a region hostile to magic generally, and doesn't seem to have much impact on local politics.

So yeah, you take control of them much too easily, no argument there. But they're really nothing to write home about...

I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't have liked to go through a massive amount of efforts just to end up as head of the companions. Realistically, I would have given up, it would feel like having a six stage interview process over 3 months to join a start up where I would be employee number 4.
 
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khain said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Just because you can become leader of factions in Morrowind does not make that equal the ease by which you are GIVEN leadership in Skyrim and Fallout 4. Skyrim and Fallout 4 GIVE you these positions after minimal effort, and Fallout 4 even gives it to you at the beginning without doing anything - General of The Minutemen. Childrens' games have that kind of writing.

Morrowind and even Oblivion made do much more.
Click to expand...
To Skyrim's defense... the factions that you end up heading up are much smaller in scale.

It's not like you become the head of a fighter's guild that spans an entire continent, or even region. At the end of the day, the companions are a rather sorry bunch. In terms of pure numbers, you're only the chief of a group about the same size as a Baldur's Gate party. And you don't recruit, if I remember correctly.

The thieves' guild is a bit of a ruin that you help rebuild... Only the mages college has a kind of 'impressive' thing about it. But even so, it's miles from the aura that the Mages guild had in Morrowind, with the teleporters from location to location etc. It's in a region hostile to magic generally, and doesn't seem to have much impact on local politics.

So yeah, you take control of them much too easily, no argument there. But they're really nothing to write home about...
Click to expand...
They are the entire guilds for Skyrim. Nothing was worse than the Dark Brotherhood in that game. They made you leader because the previous one was jealous. Nice writing Pulitzer Prize stuff right there.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
(...) snip snip (...)

They are the entire guilds for Skyrim. Nothing was worse than the Dark Brotherhood in that game. They made you leader because the previous one was jealous. Nice writing Pulitzer Prize stuff right there.
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Yes, there's a reason why I went through all of them and subtly (erm) left out the Dark Brotherhood. :look:

Damn, playing devil's advocate for Bethesda ain't easy.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
khain said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Just because you can become leader of factions in Morrowind does not make that equal the ease by which you are GIVEN leadership in Skyrim and Fallout 4. Skyrim and Fallout 4 GIVE you these positions after minimal effort, and Fallout 4 even gives it to you at the beginning without doing anything - General of The Minutemen. Childrens' games have that kind of writing.

Morrowind and even Oblivion made do much more.
Click to expand...
To Skyrim's defense... the factions that you end up heading up are much smaller in scale.

It's not like you become the head of a fighter's guild that spans an entire continent, or even region. At the end of the day, the companions are a rather sorry bunch. In terms of pure numbers, you're only the chief of a group about the same size as a Baldur's Gate party. And you don't recruit, if I remember correctly.

The thieves' guild is a bit of a ruin that you help rebuild... Only the mages college has a kind of 'impressive' thing about it. But even so, it's miles from the aura that the Mages guild had in Morrowind, with the teleporters from location to location etc. It's in a region hostile to magic generally, and doesn't seem to have much impact on local politics.

So yeah, you take control of them much too easily, no argument there. But they're really nothing to write home about...
Click to expand...
They are the entire guilds for Skyrim. Nothing was worse than the Dark Brotherhood in that game. They made you leader because the previous one was jealous. Nice writing Pulitzer Prize stuff right there.
Click to expand...

Not just that, it was also because "Oh hey this person can talk to ancient corpses so you're the new leader without question!" is the other reason. Have you noticed all "leaders" of all factions die after you join them and reach the end of their questlines?
 
RPGs get away with janky animations and near-immersion breaking glitches like people floating in the air because their writing makes up for all this. Bethesda has shown with Skyrim and Fallout 4 what happens when you take good writing out of an RPG - all you notice is the terrible engine, bad voice acting, robotic character animations. The world becomes shallow and you end up spending all your time modding the game for pretty screenshots instead of actually playing it, because Skyrim and Fallout 4 look amazing standing still but the second they move you see all the negatives.
 
I don't know about Skyrim with Guns as Skyrim has plots and storylines more than FO4. (Within 100 words of dialog you become head of the minutemen).

I'd say it is more DOOM with an post apocalyptic setting.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
RPGs get away with janky animations and near-immersion breaking glitches like people floating in the air because their writing makes up for all this. Bethesda has shown with Skyrim and Fallout 4 what happens when you take good writing out of an RPG - all you notice is the terrible engine, bad voice acting, robotic character animations. The world becomes shallow and you end up spending all your time modding the game for pretty screenshots instead of actually playing it, because Skyrim and Fallout 4 look amazing standing still but the second they move you see all the negatives.
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Now if only the people that think this game is an "amazing RPG with deep elements better than the originals and New Vegas" knew this.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
Fallout 4 is the natural progression of Skyrim. I easily predicted Fallout 4's shallowness based on Skyrim. Skyrim had very little dialogue choice - all answers basically "yes," the lore contradicted itself, and after you finish the main quest those farts in the mountain still ask you if you are going to be a bad guy or a good guy. The number of quests that defaulted to dungeon crawling was quite high, and the "puzzles" had their answers directly above them.

The highlights of Skyrim are watching modders make the game look pretty for screenshots. I know more people modding Skyrim for this purpose than actually playing the game itself.

Not to mention Skyrim began the grand tradition of making your character the Head of basically every guild/group in the game at the same time.
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Ive spent far more time in the character creator making Orc and Nord waifus than I care to admit, ive also made some pretty burly Orc males as well One time I used to even write in a "journal" outside of the game and post it in the RP forums on Bethesda official skyrim section.

The best part of skyrim is that Bethesda gave us a frame work game and let the mods run free, much like kerbal space program the mods are often of higher quality, more interesting and add what I now feel is necessary features to the game.

The last time I played it I had to eat, sleep and drink, worried about freezing to death, could carry far less and combat was way faster and deadly making armor a trade off of speed or protection. Falling into water in the northern regions was deadly as I could only carry a limited amount of food, whatever clothes/armor I was wearing and would need to find shelter and start a fire so that i didnt turn into a frozen orc cube.
 
Yeah all they're missing is bipedal talking cats, lizards, and elves. Unless they make a DLC to have another faction take up work with the "FEV" the Institute magically got ahold of and then mutate cats and lizards into what they are in TES. That would make this titanic turd a whole lot worse then it is now.
 
Titan357 said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Fallout 4 is the natural progression of Skyrim. I easily predicted Fallout 4's shallowness based on Skyrim. Skyrim had very little dialogue choice - all answers basically "yes," the lore contradicted itself, and after you finish the main quest those farts in the mountain still ask you if you are going to be a bad guy or a good guy. The number of quests that defaulted to dungeon crawling was quite high, and the "puzzles" had their answers directly above them.

The highlights of Skyrim are watching modders make the game look pretty for screenshots. I know more people modding Skyrim for this purpose than actually playing the game itself.

Not to mention Skyrim began the grand tradition of making your character the Head of basically every guild/group in the game at the same time.
Click to expand...
Ive spent far more time in the character creator making Orc and Nord waifus than I care to admit, ive also made some pretty burly Orc males as well One time I used to even write in a "journal" outside of the game and post it in the RP forums on Bethesda official skyrim section.

The best part of skyrim is that Bethesda gave us a frame work game and let the mods run free, much like kerbal space program the mods are often of higher quality, more interesting and add what I now feel is necessary features to the game.

The last time I played it I had to eat, sleep and drink, worried about freezing to death, could carry far less and combat was way faster and deadly making armor a trade off of speed or protection. Falling into water in the northern regions was deadly as I could only carry a limited amount of food, whatever clothes/armor I was wearing and would need to find shelter and start a fire so that i didnt turn into a frozen orc cube.
Click to expand...

Bethesda should make games where the point is modding, like Garry's mod.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Titan357 said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Fallout 4 is the natural progression of Skyrim. I easily predicted Fallout 4's shallowness based on Skyrim. Skyrim had very little dialogue choice - all answers basically "yes," the lore contradicted itself, and after you finish the main quest those farts in the mountain still ask you if you are going to be a bad guy or a good guy. The number of quests that defaulted to dungeon crawling was quite high, and the "puzzles" had their answers directly above them.

The highlights of Skyrim are watching modders make the game look pretty for screenshots. I know more people modding Skyrim for this purpose than actually playing the game itself.

Not to mention Skyrim began the grand tradition of making your character the Head of basically every guild/group in the game at the same time.
Click to expand...
Ive spent far more time in the character creator making Orc and Nord waifus than I care to admit, ive also made some pretty burly Orc males as well One time I used to even write in a "journal" outside of the game and post it in the RP forums on Bethesda official skyrim section.

The best part of skyrim is that Bethesda gave us a frame work game and let the mods run free, much like kerbal space program the mods are often of higher quality, more interesting and add what I now feel is necessary features to the game.

The last time I played it I had to eat, sleep and drink, worried about freezing to death, could carry far less and combat was way faster and deadly making armor a trade off of speed or protection. Falling into water in the northern regions was deadly as I could only carry a limited amount of food, whatever clothes/armor I was wearing and would need to find shelter and start a fire so that i didnt turn into a frozen orc cube.
Click to expand...

Bethesda should make games where the point is modding, like Garry's mod.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what Bethesda is doing already?
 
Fallout 4 is Borderlands. A better version of Borderlands, but still a load of crap. I liked Fallout 3 and thought Skyrim was meh, but Fallout 4 is shallow and a waste of time. I have 20 hours in and I'm getting bored. I'm going back to Dragon Age or Civ 5, hell, I'd give Obsidian a pass on another game if they set it somewhere other than the Southwestern US.
 
Thebakedpotato said:
I wouldn't mind if Fallout 4 was Skyrim with guns. Hell, I would -love- it. It would have been exactly what I expected. And I was excited to play that.
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I do not, have not; and probably never will understand the utterly alien notion that a sequel to a game should be acceptable or even lauded for playing like an unrelated game. TES is a setting, and a game system, and a design philosophy. Fallout is the same; but FO3 [and FO4 I suppose] is a title that uses the Fallout setting with the design philosophy and base mechanics of TES... How the hell can that ever be seen as a good thing by anyone that liked Fallout enough to buy its sequels?

I honestly get the [incredulous] impression that people out there are often times incapable of appreciating a game's merits while at the same time seeing it as wholly inappropriate for its labeling; or the reverse. Is it really so, that players actually ~seriously think a title is good merely because they like or enjoy it? [/not sarcasm]

I think both FO3 and FO4 are tremendous games when viewed on their own concepts, but that they are pathetic Fallout series titles when viewed in their enforced positions in the Fallout series, as the official #3 and #4. "Skyrim with Guns" is an insult to Fallout, not Skyrim; and it reflects a weakened and lowered standing, and standards for the IP. It's been permanently damaged, and those praising Skyrim's qualities as missing the mark should be ashamed of it IMO.
 
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TomJ said:
Fallout 4 is Borderlands. A better version of Borderlands, but still a load of crap. I liked Fallout 3 and thought Skyrim was meh, but Fallout 4 is shallow and a waste of time. I have 20 hours in and I'm getting bored. I'm going back to Dragon Age or Civ 5, hell, I'd give Obsidian a pass on another game if they set it somewhere other than the Southwestern US.
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Borderlands is worse? Wut...
 
Yeah Borderlands 2 had a good story and interesting characters IMO. Its gunplay is also quite fun, especially when playing with friends. I also never had a single bug, glitch, crash, framerate issue or texture loading problem. Borderlands 1 on the other hand is pretty meh. Good enough when it came out but I could never imagine going back to it.
 
joevonzombie said:
Walpknut said:
Fallout 4 is Destiny with worse graphics and uglier art direction.
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I was gonna say Borderlands.
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Hey, they both have multiplayer. Different focus points. I enjoyed both of them somewhat, but if you don't like 'em, at least you can suffer together with friends.

Come to think of it, every single Fallout 4 cue was taken from multiplayer games. The massive focus in crafting, looting, and repetitive quest grinding. Loose plot with inconsistencies that needs to be filled in by fans. Highly hyped with an influential PR office. Aims for big crowds. Theme park feel. The only thing it lacks is the actual multiplayer. Maybe they should just make a Fallout MMO and get it out of the system - it's like they're itching to make one.
 
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