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Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Karel, Nov 24, 2006.
So Hexer, are there any Fallout Total Conversions we have not heard about here in the West?
Last Frontier: http://lastfrontier.ru/
Next Day: http://www.fonextday.ru/
Plus these guys are remaking Arcanum
Arcanum Reborn: http://www.arcreborn.ru/
Last Frontier is Cvet's new FOnline engine project. As far as I know, it's meaned to be mora a unique game and less a Fallout mod.
Wow Last Frontier looks amazing but is it be translated to english?
Dutch Ghost - I neither can nor want to put all we've achieved somewhere online, as only Karel has the "BGE built" available right now - but it's big. However, I just digged up some translated character descriptions and small texts:
I see the only chance for BGE to be realeased one day if financed via Kickstarter or so, but I'm quite sure either IPLY or Beth would probably tell us to go fuck ourselves and die. If any legal expert reads this, I'd like to hear some details though.
No chance without crownfunding - at all.
You are only using Fallout engine, nothing else so I don't think there should be problems with Kickstarter but I'm not an expert though.
To be honest, there is no reason to keep sitting on all the files. Especially the art assets, especially if the chances for the mod to ever get finished is zero anyway.
None of your business.
Besides, "only Karel has the "BGE built" available right now"
"None of your business"?
Well, okay. Just another Fallout mod that teased players with new critters and stuff over years and then is incompetent enough not to do anything with it. But hey, none of my business...
Too bad about the attitude thing. While we're looking into options how to make Van Buren open source so we can attract more developers others are hiding and rejecting everyone. That's not how BGE will ever get finished bros.
Guys, we want their assets but we are not entitled to them. It's their work after all. I can imagine how painful it is to surrender years of labour for nothing but a credit in a read me file. I'm really sad this mod died. I hope we see something come of it eventually.
BGE may be "my" project, or at least be associated with me (Mr. Lizard) the most, but I didn't make gfx, sfx, programming at all and wasn't even the best writer in the team (obviously I wasn't the only BGE writer by far). Although I'm responsible for BGE lore and gamedesign, I didn't write even this very basis completely alone. I could continue on but I believe even dumb Prosper would get the point: however vague and foggy those intellectual rights are, ain't going to fuck around with anyone's contribution without discussion or permission to act so. Especially if some parts, just as ambiens, may be still re-used by the author, even comercially. I might have failed as a leader but ain't gonna let some people down again, which is my moral decision I made and really "none of your business".
I'm glad at least Dude101 sees things more complex and without greedy optics.
To write a bit more on this theme, I remember quite a number of emails of pretty vulturous nature anytime BGE had one of its crisis or the website was just not updated for a certain amount of time, often by a real newbies, leading their, I'd say, highly uninteresting projects of dubious progress quality, absolutely ready to absorb anything ours, including "minor" things like plot, characters, etc. (It was Czech projects mostly, so please don't speculate whose project I just defamed.) You know who Gilles Villeneuve was? Shortly after his death the world was generally incredibly sad about, yet some opportunists called to Ferrari's office wanting his job; cold fucking shit, but still understandable in some way. People, people never changes.
I don't claim you wouldn't do wonders with our stoff but it's really not a deal now. Besides, I really don't have the stuff on my desk right now.
Btw, if you leak your things out it means you're done, you really buried the thing. It means waiting for the miracle is over, since it's nothing you can get back.
is it dead? message on their website
It is dead, message just a few posts above yours.
That is a shame but that is the usual fate of mods.
Often it starts with great enthusiasm but after a while that 'cools down' and the reality of such a project sets in.
I know of only one project that is still going on after all these years.
they should let someone else finish it... I don't think it's dead. Why would they keep it to themselves if it's dead? There's no use keeping all those files hidden and all.
Guys, you need to understand that apart from what Marek wrote, releasing all the unfinished work is not an easy feat. We had a semi-professional toolchain (which is essentially one of the things that killed the mod):
all source code in in a Subversion repository
there are - I think - some daily build scripts + specific setup of all development tools
most design documents are in DokuWiki
some of designs are in an ancient version of phpBB2 forum
some files rot in folders on disk (essentially team FTP) mixed with personal stuff of other team members / random stuff that we may or may not be able to publish (I had to do a warez purge every couple months )
there are some tasks / bugs in Trac from programmers
All this is linked together in a specific setup with shared accounts across applications / specific versions of Apache/PHP/Python/MySQL/PostgreSQL/SQLite and who-knows-what that are 6-8 years ago, so setting it up again is a little bit of software archeology and it's not really something that you can expose to the internet as-is. Mainly for security reasons (it was internal, so little security after you logged in) but also because someone will need to do a thorough cleanup of all the personal / internal stuff.
The message on the website is a 403 error page (there is a 404 with Tandi too ) - no point in showing a webpage and giving high hopes to people.
I don't think that we ever had a chance to release the mod - and I'm saying this from a perspective of managing a team of 10 analysts/developers on a software project with 250+ people involved. The amount of work was simply too big for a hobbyist project ("I feel like playing with this model / dialogue for 2 hours this weekend") and all the changes that we tried to implement were moving BGE closer to its demise. You discourage too many hobbyists once you implement all the stuff that works for professional projects because you turn the hobby into another job (task tracking and small increments that make people accountable, professional tools that you need to learn, processes for e.g. map development etc.) - and you cannot have two jobs for more than a couple months.
As Marek said, the only way would be a Kickstarter campaign and focused development of a small team over 6-9 months but I don't think that's gonna happen, and most probably not in Fallout 2 engine anyway (the tools are simply almost 20 years old).
Building decent mods for Fallout 2 is hard work, and people find it difficult to sustain a constant work effort...and the tools are ancient history. You need to be a little crazy in the head...
The only thing I am sad about is the new critters all going into the trash bin. Truth told, nobody will ever continue working on or with the design docs and all that other stuff.
That's why releasing my mod stuff would be completely pointless too- first everything is in german, and second, nobody will ever pick up and continue the work. Therefore, the only thing that is interesting are new graphic assets (which my mod features very little of).