Fallout: New Vegas interviews

frosty_theaussie said:
I don't get it. Why would a morally questionable group of people emulate the Roman Empire. I mean, it's crazy. The Romans were so long ago and the world has changed so much since then. I don't someone copying aspects of ancient Rome centuries after the fact to be feasib--

Adolf_Hitler_Appointed.jpg
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Caesar's Legion is the Fourth Reich! Heil Ceasar! Heil Caesar! :aiee: :aiee: :aiee: :aiee:...
... aherm...
I mean, uh, good catch on that one.
 
Expresate said:
Straw man. CL aren't actual Romans. They're emulating the Romans. It's an average slavery organization emulating a long-lost empire. They are NOT the Roman Empire.

If you don't see it you won't. :shrug:

I was trying to make this a debate. You're turning it into an argument.

Man finds data on long lost civilization. Takes a liking to it. Decides to organize his new organization after it. Yup. Pretty nonsensical.
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Nice try, but nope. I never said they were nonsensical. I'm sure they're well explained within the game and i said it's irrelevant. I don't get why some people find it so hard to understand that this is a video game, which means visual imagery is at play here and is an important part of the atmosphere/setting of it, why some cannot understand that the fact that something might be well (believably) explained does not mean that it fits visually/aesthetically, or that it does not lack originality or taste.

That was the point of my 'dinosaurs' post; it would take all but one minute and one paragraph text to reasonably explain the presence of fev-mutated dinosaurs or whatever else you might think up (mothership zeta anyone?... this roman crap is almost on the same level as that), yet, do they fit the game atmosphere/setting because of that? Again: if you don't see it you won't. :shrug:

So no, no strawman there. This, however:

frosty_theaussie said:
I don't get it. Why would a morally questionable group of people emulate the Roman Empire. I mean, it's crazy. The Romans were so long ago and the world has changed so much since then. I don't someone copying aspects of ancient Rome centuries after the fact to be feasib--
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is.

I must've missed the roman-styled uniforms and apparel on those gizillion images of nazi soldiers... :roll:
 
Expresate said:
Straw man. CL aren't actual Romans. They're emulating the Romans.
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And that's precisely what is stupid: the fact that they are emulating them. There would be no problem if they just shared with them their slavery tradition or their avidity of power; heck, there would be no problem even if they were still called Caesar's Legion. But from the moment that they are forcing themselves to adopt things that are not only settings un-fitting, but also unintuitive or counterproductive for them, like the latin usage and the leg-unprotected skirted armor, just for the sake of imitating Romans, they are in the way of reaching similar levels of stupidity we've already seen in people forcing themselves to drink blood for the sake of resembling vampires.

frosty_theaussie said:
I don't get it. Why would a morally questionable group of people emulate the Roman Empire. I mean, it's crazy. The Romans were so long ago and the world has changed so much since then. I don't someone copying aspects of ancient Rome centuries after the fact to be feasib--

<Godwin>
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Oh yes, now I remember... How could I possibly forget the huge marchs of Hitler's troops wearing those pretty bare-legged metal armors with leather-stripped skirts... oh, wait...

That's precisely what's wrong, mind you, the Caesar's Legion is imitating the Roman Empire in just the shallowest possible way: its looks.
 
Look folks. If you are are a leader with slavery organzation. You want to create an empire to expand your lands and wealth. The Roman empire is a logical choice to be influenced by. There was no other empire on Earth that had the wealth and power as the Romans.

Heck many leaders did try to emulate it:

Charlemagne
210px-Image-Charlemagne-by-Durer.jpg


Napoleon

Hitler as mentioned above

Mussolini
 
B5C said:
Look folks. If you are are a leader with slavery organzation. You want to create an empire to expand your lands and wealth. The Roman empire is a logical choice to be influenced by. There was no other empire on Earth that had the wealth and power as the Romans.

Heck many leaders did try to emulate it (...)
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And did their troops uniforms/apparel was roman-styled? and did the nazi soldiers wore roman-styled leg-unprotected skirted armor during the invasion of Russia? and those it all fit the fallout atmosphere/setting? And did you even read the other posts in this thread before posting? :roll:
 
I was talking to Vault Maker about this, wondering where the CL concept comes from. He thinks it could be a Canticle for Leibowitz reference.

Now I will have to reread Canticle to better understand the relationship...
 
Romans in this game IS goofy shit. Yet, no perk is needed to see them.

Maybe there should also be a perk that changes the CL's clothes to something more wasteland-ish and less goofy-shitty.
 
Spoilers: The only way to defeat Caesar's Legion is by letting them expand to their fullest potential and then unite the Khans from the north-east to attack them.
 
Germany didn't copy exactly. Yet Hitler did get a lot of ideas from the Roman Empire.

The Nazi salute was based off the Roman salute.

regalia_nurem_eagle_hitler.jpg


Nazi logos were based off Roman eagles and banners.

Also Hitler's future Berlin.
ger-Welthauptstadt_Germania.jpg


Nazi architecture is an often dismissed and derided aspect of Nazi plans to create a cultural and spiritual rebirth in Germany.

Hitler, founder of the Third Reich, admirer of imperial Rome, yet aware that the ancient Germans were never Romanized and were traditionally regarded by the Romans as enemies of the Pax Romana, developed architecture in the neo-classic style and erected edifices as cult sites for the Nazi party a type of Victory Altar borrowed from the alleged racial ancestors of the Germans - the Greeks. His dilemma was that because of his admiration for the Classical cultures of the ancient Mediterranean, he could not isolate and politicize German antiquity, as Mussolini had done with respect to Roman antiquity. Therefore he had to import political symbols into Germany and justify their presence on the grounds of a spurious racial ancestry, the myth that Greeks and the Romans were the ancestors of the Germans (Scobie 92).

Hitler's fantasies about being the founder of a thousand-year Reich were in harmony with the Colosseum being associated with eternity. Hitler envisioned all future Olympic games to be held in Germany in the Deutsche Stadion. It is clear that Hitler anticipated that after winning the war, a subjected world would have no choice but to send its athletes to Germany every time the Olympic games were held. Thus, this building foreshadowed Hitler's craving for world domination long before this aim was put into words (Scobie 80). Hitler habitually derived satisfaction from seeing world-famous monuments being surpassed in size by German equivalents. However, architectural elephantiasis alone does not explain the full significance of the choice of edifice (Scobie 91).
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Also mimicking others is a normal response to those who want to bring back something they want. Also dressing up as Romans of the past gives the group identity.

Heck Caesar's Legion is suppose to have Chariots.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar's_Legion

I wonder if they going to use it in the game.
 
:roll: :lol:

B5C said:
Germany didn't copy exactly.
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Yet the uniforms/apparel from these slavers in the game is exactly roman-styled.

B5C said:
Yet Hitler did get a lot of ideas from the Roman Empire.
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Seriously? what has all that to do with anything? Here, i'll just quote my post again:

i said:
And did their troops uniforms/apparel was roman-styled? and did the nazi soldiers wore roman-styled leg-unprotected skirted armor during the invasion of Russia? and those it all fit the fallout atmosphere/setting? And did you even read the other posts in this thread before posting?
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B5C said:
Also mimicking others is a normal response to those who want to bring back something they want. Also dressing up as Romans of the past gives the group identity.
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And again:
i said:
And did their troops uniforms/apparel was roman-styled? and did the nazi soldiers wore roman-styled leg-unprotected skirted armor during the invasion of Russia? and those it all fit the fallout atmosphere/setting? And did you even read the other posts in this thread before posting?
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If things like zombies, green ogres, an order of haughty knights in shiny armors and monks in robes, or outright fantasy (or "dinosaury" if you prefer) deathclaws could fit in Fallout 1, then I don't see why wasteland version of roman soldiers wouldn't.
In fact, I think it's a great theme for a slaver organization. Post-apocalyptic world is characterized by a civilizational void, looking to redefine itself, looking for inspiration. There's probably dozens of insignifacant slaver and raider gangs. But if you want to build an empire, you need something more than they have. You need ideology and pride to cement it. Roman uniform isn't any less of an armor than a generic mad-max waslandish raider outfit. But it surely makes one wearing it part of something grand and it makes a statement: we're different/better.

And did their troops uniforms/apparel was roman-styled? and did the nazi soldiers wore roman-styled leg-unprotected skirted armor during the invasion of Russia?
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Except for helmets, Nazi soldiers didn't wear body armor at all, because they didn't need it or didn't have the technology for a bullet-stopping uniform. In the wasteland melee combat plays a significant role, so the armor is useful. Despite not wearing roman style outfits, they have incorporated a lot of roman symbolism. And it's a full-blown nation with their own culture we're speaking about, not some desert bandits in an uncivilised world. As for leg protection, I think that 1000 years of roman warfare speaks for itself.

So, if I'm concerned, yes, it does fit Fallout.
 
It's nice to see we're still able to discern NMA's two distinct parties.

Expresate said:
I'm not sure which side you were taking(if any). I just know your post made me smile.
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In that case, I have taken your side.
 
Alls I know, if I was a hardcore raider and some guy told me "Alrite, we all wearing skirts from now on", I'd be like "Nah".

But then again, if everyone was doing it... :look:
 
B5C said:
The Roman empire is a logical choice to be influenced by. There was no other empire on Earth that had the wealth and power as the Romans.
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That's not true. The British Empire was bigger and had more riches. The Mongol Empire was bigger and had more riches. And I think there's more.

No matter how you put it, CL is a bad choice. It's Van Buren legacy and it didn't sound right back then and it doesn't sound right today.
The "logic" I have seen used in this thread makes no sense: you could add whatever to the Fallout universe (ufo's, samurai, ...) and create some sort of logic to have it take place in that universe, but that still doesn't mean it would fit. It's very easy to create subplots and side characters and secondary events and somehow paste him to the whole, but if it doesn't fit it'll look like an ugly wart.

We could have a city of talking raccoons as well, you know? To go with FO2's talking deathclaws. To raise the level of stupidity the series has already reached.

The best comparison one can make is to compare FO to Scream, a nice pulpy nineties pomo flick that reinvented the slasher movies (just as FO reinvented the fantasy RPG). Then came Scream 2, which wasn't bad, but which was just going with the flow, following the hype and started to fail through exaggeration (FO2). Eventually we got Scream 3 which completely lost track of what the series was set out to do: redefine the horror slasher movie. The result was a movie riddled with the same old horror clichés Wes Craven wanted to avoid. We'll call this one Fallout Tactics, just to rap it up. Some people like the trilogy as a whole, some decide that the sequels are worse than the original.
(We'll just forget POS ever happened, shall we?)
Then some guys come along and they feel like making a quick buck. They've got a franchise that has proven its worth already, so they buy the rights and they make their own sequel. It's called Scary Movie. It's a spoof horror flick, mainly based on the Scream trilogy, but also incorporating stuff from a variety of other sources that really don't have anything to do with Scream at all. Some Scream fans love it because it gives them lolz, lots and lots of lolz, and because it does remind them of what Scream used to be, a goddamn good movie. The guys who bought the rights are glad to see their little enterprise paid off so they immediately start work on Scary Movie 2, but the Scream lore is pretty much all used up, so smart as they are, they now start to put in Exorcist references and talking cats and violent marihuana plants and other complete nonsense. And still some Scream fans will love it because it gives them lolz and some won't even know why some people hate it and think it's completely dumb, because they're too young to miss the Scream references because they usually have never seen Scream. And so on.

In October 2011 Scary Movie 5 will be released.
 
I slightly begin to jump over the the "the CL doesn't fit"-area, but not because of what is written here, because I saw the artwork with Caesar and he really looks like a cartoony version of the real Caesar, which makes me go 'wtf'...
 
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