Fallout: The Frontier - Released!

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by The_Proletarian, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    We live in a world...
  2. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    I thought it was a society....
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  3. cordelionreaver

    cordelionreaver Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Nov 29, 2015
    I think they knew about it, and planned on using Zutheskunk as a scapegoat. They just didn't expect people to call them on their bullshit.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  4. Octavian

    Octavian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 16, 2018
    I didn't play it, but based on my interactions with them as a legion route character, a couple of the characters come off very much as donutsteel OCs, with very strange polarizing character designs that look like anime characters. The personalities were a but strange/quirky too and not really as well written as most of the legion characters I talk to.

    Perhaps by following their route they could improve with development/depth added to them, or they could get worse. Who knows.
  5. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Dare I say... Based? Wait. No, I won't. He does terrible job at writing these things.
    'K it's only half-improvement since FNV introduces craftable weapon repairing kits and it's better alternative to both. Armor repairing is fucked, tho. Economy is somewhat okay in the early game, don't be like that pls. You only get rich with your first win at Primm casino and once you sell all that metal armor off of raiders' corpes.

    BTW, do you have anything to add to 'mods to avoid' list from VivaNV page?
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  6. 1Punman

    1Punman It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jan 29, 2021

    download (1).gif
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  7. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    RPGs should be about how your character is limited by it's skills, allowing someone with a skill of 15 to be able to repair any weapon to 100% is stupid.

    Being able to repair stuff to 100%, no matter the skill also affects the already broken Economy, since a player has no incentives to pay for repairing equipment in New Vegas.
    In FO3, if you have low repair skill, you have to pay to get your equipment repaired, but the thing is that the vendors also play by the same rules as the PC, they can only repair an item to max of what their repair skill allows to.
    IIRC there's only 1 NPC in FO3 and DLCs that can repair to maximum condition, and that is Somah, a temporary companion in the Mothership Zeta DLC. After the end of that DLC she's gone and there's no one else who can do it. So, no fully repaired gear just by paying someone. The player has to increase their Repair skill to the max if they want to be able to repair their equipment to full condition.

    FO3 weapon durability affects that weapon's damage output in a bigger way than in FNV. In NV the weapon damage is only kinda affected by tiers, which means that weapons still deal maximum damage with a durability between 100% and 75%... FO3's weapon damage starts decreasing as soon as your weapon hit's 99% durability, and just keeps going lower and lower with each unit of durability loss. That is why in FNV a weapon will be able to deal full damage from 100% to 75%, and only then they start getting reduced damage (2/3 of full damage from 74% to 25% and half damage from 24% to 0% durability this is wrong), but in FO3, a weapon will always deal reduced damage with each point of durability lost.

    FO3 repair and durability system is way more complex than the simplified FNV version. For example, in FNV all weapons degrade at a 0.2 by attack/shot. In FO3 the maths is different for weapon type.
    In FO3 the weapon degrades by a percentage of how much damage it causes and by weapon type: Small Guns degrade 3% of it's damage output per shot, Energy Weapons degrade 4% of it's damage output per shot, Melee and Unarmed degrade 5% of their damage output per attack and Big Guns degrade 6% of it's damage output per shot.
    This is actually pretty well thought, the more powerful a weapon, the more wear and tear it gets when used.

    Just like @TheodoreRoosevelt said, in FNV you don't have much incentive to repair past 85%, since the weapon will still deal the same damage as if it was at 100%, and will still do so for another 10% of durability loss. While in FO3, each % unit counts.

    Another thing about FNV repair and item durability is that if the weapon is at a condition higher than 99.4%, the value of the item is reduced but you can't repair it to full 100% because the game considers it fully repaired, even if the item value is still reduced. And this is noticeable in FNV, since as TheodoreRoosevelt again mentioned, the value of weapon in NV is much higher than in FO3, so even 0.5% of durability will reduce the selling price by a few caps. This is an example that affects both things I said were better in FO3 than FNV, the repair system and the game's economy.

    I'm sorry to say, but you're deflecting now. Just because other games also have bad economy doesn't invalidate that NV's one is terribly broken. The "FO3 game's economy is also broken", yes, I know. I said that in my post already, but the thing is that in FNV it's even more broken, making FO3's one better. And that was what this is all about, FO3 things that are better than FNV. This is not a race to see which game's worse, it's just a discussion about what one game has better than the other.

    The games stability in Windows 10 doesn't invalidate how FNV engine is seriously broken in a lot of things. FO3 has better sound system (it actually works), has better dialogue system (prevents tons of errors that happen in FNV from happening in FO3), has better navmesh system (FNV navmesh system breaks after a certain height, not even a very high one, Rivet City height is enough to break navmesh and make NPCs get crazy and break their packages), etc. These are all better things in FO3.

    FO3 is usually less stable than FNV on newer Windows OS, because FO3 was released when there wasn't "newer" Windows OS (it was released before Windows 7 even existed), while FNV was released 1 year after Windows 7 was already being widely used by the general population. So of course it would be built to work on "newer" OS. FO3 was made to be usable by the latest Microsoft OS back then, Windows Vista :eek:.
    I'd say that playing FNV in a Windows Vista machine will be as stable as playing FO3 in a Windows 10 machine. :roffle:

    But it still doesn't invalidate that those things I mentioned on my initial post are better in FO3 than FNV.

    Weapon Repair Kits are edited FO3 MZ DLC's Alien Epoxy. :roffle:
    Really, the code even says this: ";Most code taken directly from the DLC05AlienEpoxyEffectScript.".
    But the weird thing is that when you use Weapon Repair Kits, the sound it plays it the same for when you read a book or magazine. They have sounds for repairing and used a book/magazine sound for it instead.:facepalm:
    NV economy is way more messed up than that. Last year, I made a post here that showcased just how some things were so nonsense in the FNV economy. I only focused on a few armors, but it exemplify quite well the issues in the economy. And you're right, casinos can be abused to get rich for life. If you have a character with the base luck of 5, you can increase it by getting the Implant + Naughty Nightwear and have the necessary 7 LCK to win regularly, there's other ways of increasing luck but they require more time or going through certain routes.

    Anyway, here's my previous post about some Armors and Economy in NV:
    "At some point someone at obsidian just decided to change (in an official game patch) the values of certain stuff and make it stupidly expensive, while everything else remained the same. It was almost entirely centered around armor, some of the weapons (not even 1/4 of them) and weapon mods (which some were clearly setup for the original economy, before the change), so some weapon mods have the old price and are really cheap, while the patched ones price is increased by a lot. Which makes no sense and feels quite off.
    And in the process of changing the value of some things, they ended up breaking vendor repair, the economy and any sense of difficulty in maintaining a decent amount of caps.

    Here's one quick (or is it?) example of something broken in the price of things in FNV:
    Regular Combat Armor has a base cost of 6500 caps, Van Graff combat armor has the same base cost of 6500 caps. But the thing is that the Van Graff armor offers more protection (DT 16 vs DT 15). The rest of the stats are exactly the same in both armors.

    Now let's take a look at the Van Graff combat armor (base cost 6500 caps) and the Combat armor, reinforced (base cost 8000). The reinforced armor costs 1500 more caps and only offers +1DT over the Van Graff armor. So it's the same situation as with the Van Graff's and regular Combat Armor, but in this case 1DT is worth more than 1000 caps, while in the previous case it's worth nothing. :roffle:

    To make things even more mind-blowing, let's take a look at the C.A. Reinforced and the US Army Combat Armor. The Reinforced one has a base cost of 8000 caps, the US Army's one has a base cost of 8500 caps. But the US Army's one offers 1 more DT (18DT) than the Reinforced one (17DT), the US Army's one also gives a +3 bonus to the Guns Skill and a +2 bonus to the Survival skill. But how come the base cost is only 500 caps more than the Reinforced armor, when the the base cost of the Reinforced one is 1500 more than the Van Graff's armor? :aiee:

    And there is more fuckery around the combat armors value in FNV, in case you thought that was it:
    The Combat armor, reinforced mark 2 has the exact same base cost as the Combat armor, reinforced... Their base value is 8000 caps for both... The only difference is that the Mark 2 gives 2 more DT... But if you have an armor giving 2 more DT, why does it cost the same? (all the other armor parameters are exactly the same)... :facepalm:.

    This was just economy problems with the Combat Armors... Now imagine the amount of broken stuff in the entire game... But to generalize a bit, some stuff (that shouldn't be) is too cheap, other stuff (that shouldn't be) is too expensive, some stuff has the same value (when it shouldn't) and it's super easy to be swimming in caps just playing the game normally.

    EDIT: Just to mention that a suit of T-51b Power armor (25DT +1STR +25 RAD resistance) has a base value of 5200 caps and a Remnants Power Armor (28DT +1STR +15 RAD resistance) has a base value of 6500... The best armor in the game costs the same as a measly Combat Armor...
    The fan favorite armor, Advanced Riot gear (21DT +1END +10 Explosives Skill) has a base cost of 8494. Only 494 caps more than a Combat Armor, reinforced which only has 17DT and no other bonuses..."

    I'm not attacking FNV, I'm just saying how things are. Just because FO3 has a few things better doesn't mean that it's the better RPG. I consider NV the best Action RPG of the last 20 years, if not of all times.

    EDIT: Corrected my mistake about FNV weapon durability tiers.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  8. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    FNV is the worst Fallout game and Tactics is the best.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 5
  9. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    To be fair, I never felt as much pressure from FNV as I did with FOT, while playing an unarmed character solo:
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  10. WonderGlueSniffer

    WonderGlueSniffer First time out of the vault

    Nov 20, 2020
    Good take
  11. Kung Fu Man

    Kung Fu Man First time out of the vault

    Jan 31, 2021
    There's two actually, the second one is due to a bug though: one of the friendly NPCs in Point Lookout will have their repair skill increased each time you see them, eventually allowing it to reach max.
  12. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Yep. :nod:
    But you have to visit him after loading a new cell 17 times, or have to enter the shop and then get out of it save the game, reload it, then go back inside also 17 times, or enter the shop and then get out and open the Nuka Cola machine container, then go back inside for 17 times.

    And then when you pay him to repair something, his Repair Skill can reset to 16 and you have to do it all again. :roffle:
    And we also have to travel to Point Lookout using the steam boat every time we want to repair anything to 100. It's probably faster to get maximum repair just by leveling up a few times.

    I didn't mentioned it because it's exploiting a bug, it takes a lot of time and it can reset after using him for repairs. Also the bug is fixed in both TTW and in FO3 Unofficial Patches. So players with their game "updated" don't have access to this exploit.
  13. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Man was that a terrible game mechanic.
  14. TheodoreRoosevelt

    TheodoreRoosevelt First time out of the vault

    Nov 21, 2020

    it is effected by skills though. you get a percentage increase for the weapon you're repairing that is dependent on your repair skill. however as you said as well it does allow you to repair to 100% regardless of skill. my guess it will just take longer to repair a weapon to 100% with low repair skill though not that long probably. honestly anybody should be able to repair a weapon to 100% if they have the proper parts for it. hence you need a weapon of a similar type to repair that gun with the gun your repairing. but they shouldn't be able to repair it to 100% automatically. it just seems more realistic.

    I disagree however that casinos make you rich for life. A lot of armors, weapons, etc in new vegas cost a lot without a decent barter skill to get a reduced price. not to mention implants cost 4000 caps each plus the two big ones which go for 8000 and 12000 caps. if you want to get all the implants... and some unique items in game like medicine stick or pacienca.
  15. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Resident Schizo Poster

    Jun 15, 2015
    What shocks me is that they put their fetishes in the game and for some reason didn't think that normal, well functioning people wouldn't be sicken by it. This is what happens when you don't have a dissenting voice in the project and just fill your team with a bunch of gremlins from Discord and Reddit. You end up believing that adding in sick and questionable shit is a good idea and that the ones who have a problem with it are the ones who have something wrong with them.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  16. JKRDU(AKA Junyoung)

    JKRDU(AKA Junyoung) Shitty, unemployed 3D Artist

    Nov 21, 2018
    I remember trying to play Fallout 3 on pc after some years, it would always crash on my computer.
  17. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Well, if you win the maximum amount allowed before being banned, in all the casinos, you get 51500 caps, this is not counting all the extra rewards you get from each casino (which includes a Combat Armor Reinforced, worth 5500+ caps), and also not counting how you can win above the limit by (when being close to reaching it), just bet on a high reward (which can give you a lot of chips in one go and push the earnings way above the limit).
    This is more than enough to buy all the Implants and still having around 10k caps left.
    If we factor the free Sierra Madre 1000 chips every 3 days (from the complimentary vouchers), then that money becomes any amount you want. This is extremely exploitable, since with 1k SM Chips (from each voucher) allows the player to acquire 50 Weapon Repair Kits, which then can be used to buy a weapon with low condition from a vendor (or just use one the player already owns), and repair it to max and sell it for a huge profit. This is one of the oldest and well known exploit in FNV to get rich fast.

    It's actually a good game mechanic. The more you use something, the more damaged it gets, so it should affect it's performance.
    It's better than the NV one where you need to damage a weapon every 25% to suffer any consequences. Not to mention that in NV, with weapon jamming chance reduced, with the ability to repair to max condition no matter your skill, with Weapon repair Kits, Raul's companion perk and the Jury Rigging perk, there's really no point in having durability in weapons. It's obvious that Obsidian didn't like the whole "repair your weapon" thing (this can explain why they simplified the system to be less punishing for the player) and made it as redundant as possible without removing it (probably because it's in FO3, so Bethesda wanted NV to have it too or something).
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  18. WonderGlueSniffer

    WonderGlueSniffer First time out of the vault

    Nov 20, 2020
    Yeah, the vanilla economy for NV is kind of underwhelming
  19. Naitor295

    Naitor295 WURM FÜD

    Jan 2, 2021
    Sorry but the weapon damage degrading every shot is just stupid, that's S.T.A.L.K.E.R levels of bullshit where weapons fall apart every 3 mags, it was one of the main reasons the combat in fallout 3 sucked since to make weapons reliable most of the time, you'd have to have 100 repair and a massive pile of hunting rifles for example, otherwise you would be using a 23% hunting rifle to repair a 35%, only to regret it immediatly because it just barely added a point, making it cheaper to just loot a weapon off a dead corpse than investing on that skill.

    Also i don't know about you, but i remember the prices being MUCH HIGHER than that in the base game without even using yup's patch.

    The only thing i can agree with is the sound problem, since i've experienced it myself with power armors missing the FO3 PA footsteps sounds that are basically a bunch of bottleclaps inside a jar clinking together.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  20. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    May 12, 2020
    If there’s going to be weapon condition in the game then I suppose fallout 3 does it better than new Vegas, except for the fact that weapon condition should never affect the damage a weapon does (with the possible exception of blades). The fact that weapon damage is relatively static in new vegas was definitely an improvement over fallout 3 (one of many...)
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1