Female armor in video games

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Atomkilla, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    This topic may have been discussed a million times over, but this article on Mad Art Lab might just interest you.
    Writer makes some good points, or, essentially, sums up majority of arguments in one place. In addition, the writer is an armorer himself, so there is a dose to expertise to it all.

    Interesting read, though I personally find it strange that he points out Mass Effect 2 as having good female armor in it. The particular armor he has given as an example may be good, but I can't get a thought of women wearing those spandex suits or Jack's attire out of my head...
  2. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 10, 2011
    He made some very good points. Too bad that the internet gaming community will react to it the way they always react to criticism (that is, freak out and declare that feminism is some objectively evil force attempting to ruin all that is good in the world).

    He was especially right about Mass effect. that is the only game I can think of at the top of my head that had actual protective gear. Instead of glorified stripperwear for lonely westerners.
  3. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    Mass Effect, maybe, but like I've said, I'm not that sure about Mass Effect 2. That one had many absurd design decision when it comes to armors, both male and female.
    What's worse, it seems that Mass Effect 3 will just ditch what's left of real female armors and will just go with the path of least resistance.
  4. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 10, 2011


    You serious?

    There goes my favorite series, reduced to typical sci fi sexist crud.
  5. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    There's been a discussion about it already (scroll to the Ilosar's post on the bottom, don't know how to link to that specific post).
  6. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 10, 2011
  7. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    I can't say I'm surprised or overly disappointed.
    Mass Effect 2 was a let down for me in many small aspects I appreciated in the first one (as it was for many people here), so I'm not really expecting anything special from the third one.
    I'm looking forward to it, the ending of the series and for my Shepard, but I don't expect to be playing an RPG by any means. I just hope it at least has a good story, one that will be connected to the previous two in a, say, natural, organic way, and not just a canon-breaker.
  8. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 10, 2011
    Eh, I never cared for the rpg aspects. I liked the diolauge and writing most. Those were the highlights for me and that's why I liked how in ME2 they got rid of the more annoying bits to the system.
  9. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    Well-written article, I think it drives the point home: it's possible to design female armor that looks realistic, unless you're making fantasy porn. Most just don't try hard enough.
  10. White Knight

    White Knight Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Aug 28, 2010
    Its not that bad. Be grateful its not like some of the examples in the article.
  11. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 10, 2011
    True, but it does give an ominous omen to how some of the other possible sidekicks might dress.

    Like I didn't have an issue with how Miranda dressed (my friend kelly dresses a lot like that, lots of black jackets with low necklines) the thing was is that she was a "prelude" to the horrific abomination that was how Jack dressed.
  12. White Knight

    White Knight Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Aug 28, 2010
    I never really understood why Jack wore that sort of clothing. How is she still alive?
    Also I just noticed Ashley has a mini-skirt. Why would combat-orientated armour have a mini-skirt?
  13. UncannyGarlic

    UncannyGarlic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 6, 2008
    It's funny that you say that because the majority of the MMO market is South East Asia and the worst offenders come from there. Also let's not be so hasty to stereotype, it's meant to appeal to all men (and some women), not just the stereotypical lonely nerd. Some women enjoy it just as much as men when it's men that are skanked up instead of women, as demonstrated by Bethesda games and a portion of their female modding community.

    Agreed. I actually thought that the point about Tali was a good one and one which more RPGs with romance elements will take into account. His boobplate comments and citation of Mass Effect as good examples of how to do it right go to show that it isn't much harder to cover everything and still show it all off at the same time. Let's face it, the ME armor that he cited isn't really a whole lot less revealing than what he was complaining about, it's just armor instead of bikinis. If sexualization the issue then it really "solves" little while if not looking retarded is the issue then it solves it.
  14. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I've never played any of the Mass Effect games, so I can't comment on that one, but it was a very good article, I read something very similar before either in a book or another article, but stil la good read, it would have been better if he had gone into making a desing example and his methodology, the bit about historical sources seemed a little lacking, but okay, good read anyway.
  15. requiem_for_a_starfury

    requiem_for_a_starfury So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 3, 2003
    It could be a long jacket not a mini-skirt but whatever it is it's not armour. They've posted a pic of Ashley in armour so it looks like they are going back to the first game with companions having a casual outfit and combat armour.
  16. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 10, 2011
    Meh, it's kind of sad that there are so few games where female characters aren't just sexualized caricatures.

    Half Life 2, Portal, Bioshock 1&2, and the Fallout games are the only games I can think of off the top of my head that have major female characters that aren't overly-sexualized. I could add a couple more to that list if female A.I. counts.

    Edit: And the earlier Metroid games.
  17. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    the problem was about it actually looking like something one would wear to protect oneself instead of metalic revealing clothes.
  18. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    There are actually paintings of Joan of Arc with a boobplate, though not necessarily contemporary.
  19. Makagulfazel

    Makagulfazel Adept Bungler of Things Orderite

    Jun 14, 2007
    And then Bioshock Infinite came along:

  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yes. And the problem which I see from it is:

    Everything will look and feel the same.

    I see where the guy is coming from and agree with him. A setting like skyrim with females ruining around in some negligee fighting orcs during a snow storm is rather silly.

    So this for a game like Skyrim is not so well.

    BUT. And this is the point to remember. We are talking about "art" here. Not a history class/lesson. So the picture above makes in my eyes perfect sense for a setting/movie/game about Red Sonja for example. Because she is a quite unique character and personality. And it plays a very important role who is the guy which has drawn here. What his personality is like. You dont want to see Red Sonja runing around looking like Jeanne d’Arc. At least I would not want it. Because that is (eventually) not part of heir personality. For example I dont see that many complaining about her "clothes" or "armor" in the movie either.

    When I do my art be it fantasy, sci-fi or real (I could show a few examples if people care about it) I have constantly to fight with what I personally believe is "cool" and still somewhat "logical" - Iam by no means a professional but I want to be one at some point and many believe that I have some skill. But hands down. If we always go only with what makes sense at some point everything would look "real" or very similar from its style and setting. And that is not what you want to achieve for all of your work. A scifi tank or armor has to look a bit strange sometimes if you want it to give you the idea that it is not from this world. Take command & conquer for example. Who is going to argue about it that some (if not all) of their units could never work from an engineering point of view or if we go the route of a "simulation" because of the way how the tracks are arranged or how the turret fits the armor adding a ton of "weak points" where shells might bounce from the front and penetrating the bottom of the turret ? - This was actually a real life issue with some WW2 tanks like the German medium Panther tank. It had a shoot trap right under the turret where rather weak low caliber guns could hit it and the shell would ricochet from the mantlet right on to the armor above the driver section! So some weak spots on the armor are not always THAT unrealistic to say that. Even engineers are only humans.

    notice the space between the turret and the hull which gave skilled tankers a chance to hit the lower part of the gun mantlet and it would actually direct the shell right to the top of the front hull. This was a design-flaw of early Panther tanks and got later fixed with a changed mantlet[/spoiler:5aa5667bff]

    Someone who makes real life armor or equipment has to keep many limitations in his mind. It does not mean that its worse. But as artist you have it usually much easier. - Well of course we always have the limitations from our client but I hope people get the point. The people which make those kind "art" with armor, weapons, equipment etc. are usually not engineers. They only look at real life equipment as reference. Like real tanks, guns or armor and weapons. And then they twist it around in their mind till the point they or their boss feels satisfied.

    Overall I love the article. he points out many things which feel wrong. I just think he went a bit overboard with the criticism on some of the armor as because we are still talking about games. Probably because he is working with real armor and thus he got a very skilled eye for it. It slowly starts to be that way for me when it comes to design - for example regardless how many people "like" minecraft for its graphic/visuals I think it looks from the design outright shit.