Five Lessons Fallout 4 Can Learn From Skyrim

[WorstUsernameEver]

Since The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim has shipped and presumably only a smaller team will work on its DLC, IGN is looking to the unannounced, but most likely upcoming Fallout 4 by Bethesda, and writes on five lessons Fallout 4 could learn from Bethesda's latest Elder Scrolls title. Here's on leveling:<blockquote>RPG veterans are all too familiar with the typical conventions of leveling. In many JRPGs, for instance, you earn experience in battle and level-up automatically, with all of your statistics taking some sort of boost regardless of how useful they happen to be to the character in question. A game like Bethesda's Fallout 3 stepped things up for the gamer by giving them a high degree of customization, continuing an established trend for the series with an existing formula. Leveling had its own perks, of course, but players could associate skill points to build up any statistic they wanted whether or not it was actually being used.

This system works fine, and in its own way it's quite rewarding. The thing is, Skyrim's leveling methodology is something Bethesda should take a close look at when it develops Fallout 4. Skyrim's leveling is, at its core, rather basic. You can only upgrade one of three statistics when you level-up. But then, things get much more complicated as you associate a very finite amount of skill points to impressive skill trees that require you to choose your course carefully. You simply cannot master everything in the game. Better yet, individual skills level up as you use them, not the other way around, which feels more organic and allows you to better embody the character you're playing as.</blockquote>Considering how close Bethesda has made the Fallout franchise to their Elder Scrolls titles already, I'm not sure if what it needs is getting even closer to it by ditching the tried-and-true exp-based leveling system.

 

[Surf Solar]

Fuck no, please no "skills raise by training" system in Fallout 4. We will already have to endure this engine/first or third person perspective etc, no need to change Fallout even more....

Sure SPECIAL wasn't ever the greatest of them all, but why not work on them instead of scrapping it and injecting the Elder Scrolls system?

 

[shihonage]

It's true; there's nothing more non-linear in all of gaming than titles like Fallout 3 or Skyrim. You can pretty much do whatever you want, whenever you want to do it, as long as you can survive. That's what makes these kinds of games so engrossing, popular and enduring

Kinda like GTA4 amirite. You can choose in which order you steal the cars and which hooker to run over. This is what freedom is all about, baby.

 

[warsaw]

...so what you're saying is we need Skyrim with guns?

 

[Morbus]

This article lacks any sort of credibility. But I'm more like this

At any rate, and though it is undenyable that level-as-you-use-it skill systems are absolute shit and, in their origin, a retarded brainfart from some LARPing wannabe game designer, they do as some perks that cannot be forgotten. For one, it solves (in some way, at least) the problem of balancing the game for different builds. No more "wrong" skills! That is, if you build levels coherently and in a similar fashion. There's no way the player will choose the "wrong" skill because it's a sword you're required to use in order to progress, it's a sword you'll get good a wielding, not a lockpick. So there it goes! Skyrim is a perfect example of that, as were every other game Bethesda made before. Despite that this joke of an article says, the skill trees of Skyrim are less of an impressive variety of choice and more of a steaming pile of useless crap you'll never find any serious use for anyway. Most of those "perks" are simple stat improvements, and, well, to go with Bethesda's tradition of cheat-skills, the vast majority is extremely imbalanced. It seems to me the perk trees were made, not to relieve change the mechanics of the gameplay, but to simply make it easier. Well, we already have +skill for that...

I do believe there is room for this sort of LARP-infested skill system in RPGs though. Just not like Skyrim's system. The problem of it all is that these systems hinder the player, in comparison to more traditional systems, when it should be the exact opposite. A fantastically simple "feature" such as allowing a skill increase bonus for the skill you've used the most would make wonders for the immersion factor, it would make sense, and it would still allow you progress as you want to progress. It wouldn't fix it, of course, but it would be way better than what both Felloutmybutt 3 and Skyroam have.

I ramble.

The only way to do it is to allow more drastically different characters at the start of the game, and do away with experience levels altogether, in favor of a more focused progression. If you read a book about how to lock pick, you can pick locks better. If you meet a very cunning person, you learn from them... Of course this works just fine in games with less combat and more plot, it all comes crashing down if we're talking about action RPGs. Of course the logical solution would be - if you swing your swords X times you can swing faster.

I don't know if I like that. Personally, I don't see any other way to "fix" that "problem" than having a way to let the player spend gametime (not actual time, that's horridly boring) actively training a skill (like casting a sell or punching a bag), and have a some sort of penalty for spending that time training instead of doing something else. And THEN the fun comes in. What if the more you "wait" the fewer loot there is? Or what if most of your quests had a time limit (one that could only be reached if you actually chose to, not just because you play slowly)? There are plenty of ideas like that in small-scale RPGs like stuff for handhelds and the like.

I ramble again.

Truth of the matter: it doesn't make the slightest difference. People will buy any shit Bethesda throw at them, and these game design questions are gibberish to them. Let them bathe in their innocence.

 

[Lexx]

The thing is, when you compare Fallout 3 to Skyrim, you realize that Skyrim's lack of a cohesive morality system gives you more options while removing the need to play a certain way just to keep up the guise of consistency.

I don't remember that Fallout 3 had a cohesive morality system. Do they mean the stupid karma-system? Or that you could explode Megaton if you wish? (Even if you do, you can finish all Megaton quests first, so you wouldn't miss out anything.)

Stupid article about stuff that was done much better by other games than Skyrim or Fallout 3 anyway.

 

[Elric]

What I don't understand is: does IGN recruit its reviewers/writers/whatever at bus stops and tells them what to write or do these people receive a paycheck for each article from gaming studios?

 

[Surf Solar]

At any rate, and though it is undenyable that level-as-you-use-it skill systems are absolute shit and, in their origin, a retarded brainfart from some LARPing wannabe game designer

That system worked good in Jagged Alliance 2 - it depends on the execution. I just don't see that Fallout would benefit from punshing such a system in at all, especially when it's Bethesda creating these "RPG mechanics".

 

[TailSwallower]

One Lesson Fallout 4 can learn from New Vegas:

For the love of god Bethesda, keep your hands off it and give it to Obsidian to make.

 

[Arden]

What I don't understand is: does IGN recruit its reviewers/writers/whatever at bus stops and tells them what to write or do these people receive a paycheck for each article from gaming studios?

Both. After releasing enough brainfarts for IGN they get headhunted by Bethesda and the like to be gamewriters. IGN then needs to find new people that find the new gameswriting worthy of a nobel prize. They get recruitet away again.... after that it just gets worse. Explains the decline in gamewriting and gamejournalism both.

I am rambling too.

 

[Wretched Flamingo]

There's nothing pretty about a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Whether you're playing Fallout 3, Borderlands or Rage, it's clear that when everything has gone to hell, you can expect a certain sort of blandness to the aesthetic. But that's not really necessary, is it?

Yes...What the hell would you expect to see? A brand new Walmart?

Think back to Fallout 3's expansion packs. The best one of the bunch -- Point Lookout -- took players away from the doldrums of Washington D.C. and into a place that's somewhat serene

Technically you don't even have to use the Point Lookout DLC as a reference, if memory serves me correctly wasn't the area known as Oasis pretty much left intact?

 

[darby70]

I hope the new Fallout will be in NY. Also scrapping the leveling system would be retarded.
The Karma system in FO3 gave you a theoretical swat on the nose with that 'wrrr' sound if you're evil, not that engrossing. I like FO1 and FO2's system where when I do something I don't get punished until I'm shot in the back by my victim's relatives.

 

[Brother None]

I'm sorta considering doing a writeup on the good and bad we might take from Skyrim into Fallout 4, but how anyone would think "derpy character system" would be an improvement on SPECIAL is beyond me.

Eric, the quote you are attributing to me in your sig, I don't recall ever saying that.

 

[Surf Solar]

I'm sorta considering doing a writeup on the good and bad we might take from Skyrim into Fallout 4, but how anyone would think "derpy character system" would be an improvement on SPECIAL is beyond me.

Even though I am always interested in your articles, I can't think of anything good that can come from Skyrim to Fallout.

 

[Sub-Human]

A game like Bethesda's Fallout 3 stepped things up for the gamer by giving them a high degree of customization, continuing an established trend for the series with an existing formula.

Haw haw haw.

 

[TheGM]

Somebody should tell this asshole to go play New Vegas.

 

[SharkClub]

A pseudo-intellectual writes an article about how deep Bethesda "RPGs" are and why everyone should pay attention to him

 

[rehevkor]

I feel a bit stupid for not realising that now Skyrim has wrapped Fallout 4 will likely be on the horizon..

 

[Elric]

Eric, the quote you are attributing to me in your sig, I don't recall ever saying that.

Honestly, I can hardly remember, I haven't posted in a long time.... I just found it there. If you feel it misrepresents you, I can remove it.

 

[Izual]

So, just to be sure, everyone here thinks Fallout 3 > Skyrim? Or did I miss the point?