FOnline: 2238 Developers Video #1

[lisac2k]

*snip*

Sorry, but our policy is (in general)
- No references to pop culture (or minimise them as more as possible)
- No special encounters from Fallout and Fallout 2

Deathclaws as a faction? Sorry, but no. The players can only play the animation sets that support all weapons and armors (in this case, default male/female sprites). If someone ever appears as a deathclaw, there'll have to be a hell of a reason for that

 

[Lazlo]

*words*

Any idea if you're actually gonna include a starter town or not? What's the protocol regarding new characters going to be?

 

[Lexx]

No new town yet.

 

[lisac2k]

Any idea if you're actually gonna include a starter town or not? What's the protocol regarding new characters going to be?

I'm quite sure the starter town(s) won't make it till OBT3 start, but that doesn't mean we won't add them later. The existing features will be fixed and the new ones will be added during the open beta test according to our schedule/time, players, gameplay, game design decisions and so on.

New characters will start on locations invisible for other players. From there, they can do whatever they want, although I would recommend visiting the next town.

 

[Lazlo]

I'm quite sure the starter town(s) won't make it till OBT3 start, but that doesn't mean we won't add them later.

Just so long as I don't have to wander the wastes looking for a 'The Absolute Darlings versus The Men Who Do Lunch' NPC gang fight in order to get a gun, I'm happy.

I mentioned this on the FO forum, but realised this thread will probably be a better place to get opinions:

Make it so all new characters start with both a zip gun and a pipe rifle, with the two weapons being slightly modified from the original. The pipe rifle can only hold, say, three shots, with a range of 10. While the zip gun can hold about six, with a range of about 5. This way, they're still the worst small guns in the game, but still useful if you're not an unarmed build.

The weapons themselves can be built out of junk, with whatever the untagged repair score is for 5 intelligence. You get 1-3 exp for building it.

As for ammo, to prevent 10mm becoming worthless, they could probably do with firing a new, easily craftable ammo type. I recommend once again just buildable from 'junk', just named 'Crude bullets' or something, probably using a slightly modified 9mm or 9mm ball ammo icon, due to how little used those ammo types are. I'm not sure how easy it is to introduce a new ammo type into the game, maybe replace one of the types of Needler ammo, considering how little used they are.

That way, the problem of new characters getting gear is solved, as well as recently deceased characters without any kind of stash getting back on their feet is solved. Junk is pretty much everywhere, and it encourages people to use crafting as a means to get gear. That and two previously useless weapons are given a purpose, without making the trusty 10mm pistol worthless.

 

[Cold Zer0]

I'm quite sure the starter town(s) won't make it till OBT3 start, but that doesn't mean we won't add them later. The existing features will be fixed and the new ones will be added during the open beta test according to our schedule/time, players, gameplay, game design decisions and so on.

New characters will start on locations invisible for other players. From there, they can do whatever they want, although I would recommend visiting the next town.

Thank you for the info and thanks Lexx too. I'm really looking forward to OB3 now and I hope 15th will get here faster than it should

EDIT: Typos

 

[Username]

Like what you did people!


I would change the whole look of the shi temple (now commune) to be a bit more submarine or maybe jut chinese looking. It's normal that they have computers and have developed but the look somehow doesn't fit (though the big commité room is great!).


Maybe you could have a quest in which a group wants "democracy/capitalism" and fight for that covertly. They are small but well organised and hope to get bigger. You can either help them, help the head commune or maybe let them kill each other and become emperor?

 

[Eve`]

Laslo, An essential part of Unarmed is that it eases your progress through the levels.

A key question is do you want to put extra points into unarmed to ease your early progress or do you want to try and scavenge up enough equipment somehow and just pump skill point into your chosen speciality?

Think of it as do you want a specialist character or a well rounded one. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

If everyone respawned with guns it would upset this balance, not only against unarmed vs small guns, but small guns vs energy weapons and big guns too.

Its also an issue regarding starter towns. By making the start so easy you allow specialisation (only in small guns generally) to become a lot easier. At least in my opinion

 

[swampcat]

I'm quite sure the starter town(s) won't make it till OBT3 start, but that doesn't mean we won't add them later.

Just so long as I don't have to wander the wastes looking for a 'The Absolute Darlings versus The Men Who Do Lunch' NPC gang fight in order to get a gun, I'm happy.

I mentioned this on the FO forum, but realised this thread will probably be a better place to get opinions:

Make it so all new characters start with both a zip gun and a pipe rifle, with the two weapons being slightly modified from the original. The pipe rifle can only hold, say, three shots, with a range of 10. While the zip gun can hold about six, with a range of about 5. This way, they're still the worst small guns in the game, but still useful if you're not an unarmed build.

The weapons themselves can be built out of junk, with whatever the untagged repair score is for 5 intelligence. You get 1-3 exp for building it.

As for ammo, to prevent 10mm becoming worthless, they could probably do with firing a new, easily craftable ammo type. I recommend once again just buildable from 'junk', just named 'Crude bullets' or something, probably using a slightly modified 9mm or 9mm ball ammo icon, due to how little used those ammo types are. I'm not sure how easy it is to introduce a new ammo type into the game, maybe replace one of the types of Needler ammo, considering how little used they are.

That way, the problem of new characters getting gear is solved, as well as recently deceased characters without any kind of stash getting back on their feet is solved. Junk is pretty much everywhere, and it encourages people to use crafting as a means to get gear. That and two previously useless weapons are given a purpose, without making the trusty 10mm pistol worthless.

i think you have good ideas....

i hope they will add some in Open Beta 4 since
i don't think they' ll add the ideas in Open Beta 3....

 

[Lexx]

There will be no open beta 4 becaus open beta 3 will not end. :p

 

[Lazlo]

Laslo, An essential part of Unarmed is that it eases your progress through the levels.

A key question is do you want to put extra points into unarmed to ease your early progress or do you want to try and scavenge up enough equipment somehow and just pump skill point into your chosen speciality?

Its also an issue regarding starter towns. By making the start so easy you allow specialisation (only in small guns generally) to become a lot easier. At least in my opinion

But unarmed can't be the only way to defend yourself at lower levels, particularly just level 1. My characters typically have 5 strength and 5 endurance, and trying to punch anything to death is pretty much a doomed gesture. Especially if there's more than one of them, my death is pretty much inevitable. Unarmed shouldn't be the only choice for survival in the first few levels - for people that aren't 'strong' it's not really an option at all. Simply put, I don't like how frustrating the first few levels can be if you're not an unarmed build. Not going for unarmed shouldn't be easy, but you should have a chance. Pipe rifles and zip guns aren't going to destroy the balance, particularly with the kind of accuracy % you start with at level 1.

In my mind, the whole point behind choosing small guns over big or energy is that you're picking weapons that are cheap, easy to keep operating and easy to build and maintain. If you opt for big guns or energy you're going to have to be resigned to the fact you won't be able to be properly armed quite so early - something I imagine those people are aware of when they tag it. You're going to have an easier start with small guns, but you won't be able to deal out insane damage later on. That's the whole point.

That said, I also wanted to include one 'starter' energy weapon and big gun for new characters, otherwise players will simply make another character to beat people to death until they finally get a big gun for their 'main'. The drawback for these 'starter guns' would obviously be how rare ammunition was, combined with the fact they weren't replaced upon your death. But that's by no means going to be included.

It's a difficult balance, you can't make things too easy for the player while at the same time you absolutely must give him some ability to carve his own path, and make him feel that his character isn't worthless for not having brute strength.

 

[SmartCheetah]

Oh well. As for me? I would like to see more hardcore type of game, where first few hours means - real pain in the ass to lvl up and get stuff.
Respawning with items debalances few things and also, encourages people to make so called "Naked pvp" (Darkfall, for example)
It's really not that hard to store few things in your chest/shack/base/mule. And Fonline is really "easy" after you'll find some proper group
"Prepare for the future"
Oi.

 

[Eve`]

Unarmed is not the only way, its just the easiest way. If you want a nice easy route through the early levels at a decent speed then pump a few points into it and you'll be fine.

If you don't want to "waste" points on Unarmed then its only mildly challenging to advance without raising it.


Nothing says you have to simply grind encounters to raise money or gain experience.


As for SGs vs BGs vs Energy vs Unarmed vs Melee: They all have their powerbuilds and (depending on if any of the big guns end up with a single shot mode) all should be reasonably viable from a pretty low level.

For example I figure it to be roughly level 3 where its possible to be an Energy guy without any major sacrifices in their SPECIAL set-up, with Energy weapons over 100%, able to build themselves a Laser Pistol and upgrade that Laser Pistol to a Magneto Pistol and craft themselves the SECs needed as ammo - and all those things from raw materials that you are also skilled enough to be able to just pick up from the landscape ... and then also be able to hire 2 mercenaries to protect them too, which they can afford by crafting extra things for sale.


'Tis a myth the starts hard IMO

 

[lisac2k]

Nothing says you have to simply grind encounters to raise money or gain experience.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

We really try hard to avoid the situations from the last beta where the encounters were all things experience (or money income). You will be able to reach 3rd or 4th level without punching the poor lizards to death, but this content will be somewhat scarce on the beginning of OBT3. As I have mentioned earlier, new stuff will be added on the fly and we are going to keep the community and the testers informed about all of the changes out there.

Gradually adding it means that we can follow the gameplay properties of the new feature easily, plus we can debug it quickly, according to the testing reports.

 

[BunkerBud]

OH yeah

Can't frkn wait!!!

 

[Kikuchad]

Oh well. As for me? I would like to see more hardcore type of game, where first few hours means - real pain in the ass to lvl up and get stuff.
Respawning with items debalances few things and also, encourages people to make so called "Naked pvp" (Darkfall, for example)
It's really not that hard to store few things in your chest/shack/base/mule. And Fonline is really "easy" after you'll find some proper group
"Prepare for the future"
Oi.

Can't say better.

It's a Fallout game, in a fallout world. I want to say "I don't wanna play that fu***** game anymore !" a couple of times before I can kick asses !

 

[Lazlo]

Nothing says you have to simply grind encounters to raise money or gain experience.

I'd still say we're not quite there yet. The critters in towns are still tougher than average, and the process to get the most valuable raw materials, like iron ore, requires tools. A sledgehammer, if I recall. And they're not cheap. Same goes for wood - I need a hatchet, and they're not free.

If I wanted to build a 10mm pistol, I'd need 4 metal parts and 1 wood. I'd need a sledgehammer to get the iron ore to make the metal parts, and a hatchet to chop the wood. I'd also need 4% more science on my 9 intelligence character to make the metal parts. I'd need an additional 11% in small guns and 23% in repair to build the pistol itself.

I can barely scour the wasteland for the resources that spawn in encounters, as I'll get killed every other encounter. I can't craft, I don't have the materials or the tools. Unless I feel like picking broc flowers until the end of time, I'm out of luck.

I tagged doctor and first aid, and I'm not skilled enough to even grind making healing powder to hit level 2.

So, where do I get enough cash and experience to get myself started?

You said it yourself when you were designing the crafting system, Lisac, 'keep it simple'. I think a lot of stuff, like say, metal parts, alloys, and minerals can just be replaced by 'junk'. Just let me build a knife out of junk, don't make me buy a sledgehammer to mine ore to manufacture metal parts to combine with flint.

 

[Ezekial]

So, where do I get enough cash and experience to get myself started?

good call mate,

How about being able to employ yourself at the early point in the game (or after death), which would give you some extra starting money and tools? Getting a job, for example:

- as a miner in Reading. If you have tagged one of the required skills (science/repair?) at character creation (or managed to boost up your skills for later-level chars) or big Charisma (!) you would receive a sledgehammer.

The thing to note here is that you would have to deliver X amount of ore within Y amount of time for free to your employer before they will let you keep it, or else they will demand it back and set up bounty on your head.

I'm sure that some people would like to exploit this and just get that sledge to sell it or fight with it, but that's great! At least you will keep the bounty hunters occupied! Besides, I'm sure that people would quickly learn that sledgehammer is not worth dieing and starting vanilla again.

- Or employing yourself at a drug production plant, like stimpacks and antidotes (Vault City) or jet (Stables), would earn you some cash OR frist aid / doctor kits and other drugs if you prefer it rather than money. One of the skills like doctor/first aid/science would have to be tagged (or high), and all you would need to do is just like making or filling up empty hypodermic's, or antidotes from scorpions tail etc. simple stuff.

- similarly, employing yourself at a clinic, like the one in Vault City or NCR, would give you some equip or money in exchange for healing players (who maybe would automatically pay a free to the head medic NPC, depending on the amount of HP healed, just to keep things logical?).

- in places with slaves, another thing to do for doctor/first aid guys would be to examine them if they are not diseased. It would nicely fit into the fallout lore, if you remember that dialog option in the quest for rescuing Joshua in Vault City.

- characters with repair tagged could get some tools for maintenance at the Den, Vault City, etc. and again they would have a bounty on their head if they will just run off without working for free at the very beginning.

It would be good if a job like that could occupy a player for 15-20 minutes or so, before one can own the tool or earn enough money for a knife or a zip gun. Jobs like that would be pointless at later time, because random encounters and PvP would get you more money and loot.

What do you guys think?


EDIT:

- another thing, ammunition, stimpacks, drugs etc, that are being made for money by 1st level characters (and those that just died and need a start-up cash) could then go to shops etc., so the in-game item economy would reflect what is being made by the players themselves!

 

[Lazlo]

How about being able to employ yourself at the early point in the game (or after death), which would give you some extra starting money and tools?

I like that idea an awful lot. Jobs that aren't easy enough to justify doing it over and over with 10 alts - if there's any way of making money, people are going to do it anyway. It's also probably more lucrative to just farm weapons than do these 'jobs'.

Simple things, like being let into Metzger's slave pen to use your doctor skill on five different slaves - or even just five conversations in which there's a medical check - the last of which creates a 'medical report' item which you hand into Metzger. So long as it's scripted to make it so you can only do it every game day, no problems.

Similarly, you can set it up so you have enter dialog with objects - assign a dialogue file to each pile of rocks, have different options depending on strength, report back to your employer with the ore. Make the ore worthless so nobody runs off with it, and involving enough to make doing it over and over with a horde of alts a waste of time.

Stuff like this is possible in pretty much every town. Go repair NCR's generator or Vault City's computers. Get a case of jet from Lil' Jesus Mordino, dispense it to Reno's drug dealers. Hell, make it so charisma builds can be a fluffer every day, or serve Wooz's drinks in Gecko's bar.

Questgiver assigns quest, player talks to NPCs or objects, player reports back, gets a bit of cash. It's simple, and it's grinding, but there are also only so many 'one of a kind' quests an MMO can contain.

Hell, if Lisac confirms it can be scripted so these things can only be done once a game day I'll happily do the dialogue files.

 

[Eve`]

I'd still say we're not quite there yet. The critters in towns are still tougher than average, and the process to get the most valuable raw materials, like iron ore, requires tools. A sledgehammer, if I recall. And they're not cheap. Same goes for wood - I need a hatchet, and they're not free.

If I wanted to build a 10mm pistol, I'd need 4 metal parts and 1 wood. I'd need a sledgehammer to get the iron ore to make the metal parts, and a hatchet to chop the wood. I'd also need 4% more science on my 9 intelligence character to make the metal parts. I'd need an additional 11% in small guns and 23% in repair to build the pistol itself.

An Int. 5 Char with tagged Science is able to mine ore/minerals and craft metal/alloys at level 1 - thats hardly an extreme build.

I can barely scour the wasteland for the resources that spawn in encounters, as I'll get killed every other encounter. I can't craft, I don't have the materials or the tools. Unless I feel like picking broc flowers until the end of time, I'm out of luck.

With 4% barter a sledgehammer is $46, a hatchet is $31 and a knife is $30, its hardly a massive amount to get a foot on the ladder. You can also just walk to the mountains to mine, or wait for an "encounters in the desert" map for the rest, amongst other things.

I tagged doctor and first aid, and I'm not skilled enough to even grind making healing powder to hit level 2.

Doctoring is one where you can't really craft your way to level 2, but on the other hand, it helps you in combat and you get a little XP for healing yourself too. Once you're at level 2 then you can begin crafting up to level 3 if you want to.

So, where do I get enough cash and experience to get myself started?

All over the place, you just have to choose the best way forward for your character type - Its part of the process of character design. Not everyone can use the same strategies.


Of course this is just the crafting and grinding method of advancement because those are the ways I prefer to go, so I bugged people for the info on those ... I'd put money on the "content" lisac mentions being quests/jobs for those that lean that way