Funny and Stark Example of Beth's Laziness...
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TheLastOutlaw
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I usually drag the body off the bed before I sleep in it but that's just me.
sentorio
First time out of the vault
When I first got into Megaton there were choices for me such as "So tell me about this bomb etc."
And I was like "what bomb?", because I just stepped into the town I had no clue about the bomb, it took me about another 2 minutes for me to figure out that this is the town which was all on the previews. Otherwise I wouldn't know there was a bomb in there before seeing the bomb or talk about it with someone else.
This is common problem, occasionally you asking question about stuff you never heard of.
I'm not even talking about asking the all questions like you never asked them before, sometimes you can even enumerate all answers and answers without any consequences even when these answers are totally opposite of each other.
And I was like "what bomb?", because I just stepped into the town I had no clue about the bomb, it took me about another 2 minutes for me to figure out that this is the town which was all on the previews. Otherwise I wouldn't know there was a bomb in there before seeing the bomb or talk about it with someone else.
This is common problem, occasionally you asking question about stuff you never heard of.
I'm not even talking about asking the all questions like you never asked them before, sometimes you can even enumerate all answers and answers without any consequences even when these answers are totally opposite of each other.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
Can't sleep in beds that belonged to people you killed. I do understand that they don't want you to be able to heal whenever you want,but it's not exactly "IMMERSIVE".
Main quest is pretty boring until Liberty Prime blows shit up. Kinda reminds me of Optimus Prime. Funny because I don't think the transformers were out in the 50's, but whatever.
I do wish that the taunts from Fallout 2 were left in. They made me laugh.
Gameplay is linear, but wandering the wasteland/suburban sprawl is entertaining for me. It's the next best thing to playing Fallout 2 except I played that game to death.
Raiders are not sadistic cannibals who hang dead rotting bodies up. Well maybe in Fallout 3, but they aren't supposed to be.
I really wish Bethesda didn't try to appeal to the casual gaming crowd, so much. They do try to make RPG's accessible to all, but by doing so they bastardize the very genre that they are trying to bring people into. Oblivion was made awesome with mods. I'm sure Fallout 3 will be the dame way.
Yogi Bears are pretty lame. Well...the name is anyway.
Main quest is pretty boring until Liberty Prime blows shit up. Kinda reminds me of Optimus Prime. Funny because I don't think the transformers were out in the 50's, but whatever.
I do wish that the taunts from Fallout 2 were left in. They made me laugh.
Gameplay is linear, but wandering the wasteland/suburban sprawl is entertaining for me. It's the next best thing to playing Fallout 2 except I played that game to death.
Raiders are not sadistic cannibals who hang dead rotting bodies up. Well maybe in Fallout 3, but they aren't supposed to be.
I really wish Bethesda didn't try to appeal to the casual gaming crowd, so much. They do try to make RPG's accessible to all, but by doing so they bastardize the very genre that they are trying to bring people into. Oblivion was made awesome with mods. I'm sure Fallout 3 will be the dame way.
Yogi Bears are pretty lame. Well...the name is anyway.
sentorio said:
It breaks immersion to have to realize things 'as yourself' rather than have your character learn about them in the game. What's up with the bomb? It assumes you'd seen it. Maybe your character can, indeed, see the bomb down below behind Simms, but what if he can't?
TorontRayne said:
Taunts are still in the game. They don't come in the form of text, but if you listen the enemies will often taunt you verbally, as well as if you hide say things like "You hiding from me? You better hope I don't find you!" Still, none of the taunts are funny, at all, so yeah, not quite the same.
The Girdershade Naughty Nightware Quest
Spoiler Alert: You'll be disappointed.
A small quest that seemed to have some potential for humor or something... anything. This quest is an example of what I have against Fallout 3. Bethesda seems to have a very unimaginative staff.
PetrolMan
Spoiler Alert: You'll be disappointed.
A small quest that seemed to have some potential for humor or something... anything. This quest is an example of what I have against Fallout 3. Bethesda seems to have a very unimaginative staff.
PetrolMan
rcorporon said:
The same happened to me
Also:
1. Too many random stuff are laying around, like a damn tricycle in a subway's toilet (?)
2. Or close to the V101 entrence there is a locked safe full of caps and stuff. Been there for 200 years I guess...
Both of them are examples of beth's laziness in thinking.
I had exactly the same thing! I was more like "Where is that bomb??" How stupid is that? Even when you enter Megaton, the sheriff automaticaly starts talking to you, so you can't even notice where is that bomb.
And this opens another quastion...why the hell someone would build a town around a nuclear bomb?? How retarded is that, and how this small, unexploded bomb had made such a crater??
You find a note in some subway... maybe around Tenpenny Tower... that gives you a mission to deliver a package. First you have to find the package in the sewers where it is hidden in a safe. Once you open the safe, the only item is naughty nightwear. Kind of interesting.
Anyway, the second you leave the room a man (can't remember his name) accosts you and demands that you give him the package. You can of course hand it over, threaten his life, or pass a speech check to keep the item.
Anyway, the note tells you to deliver the item to a man in Girdershade (the only man if I am not mistaken). Well, I went to Girdershade and delivered it and the quest ends with the man giving you 200 caps (300 with a speech check). As far as I could tell there was nothing else... no explanation... nothing.
This quest felt like someone trying to tell you a story and then when you reach the end of the whole ordeal you find out that all they did was make a sandwich. The potential was there but none was ever really realized.
Of course I may have simply missed something. Please correct me if you know better.
PetrolMan
Anyway, the second you leave the room a man (can't remember his name) accosts you and demands that you give him the package. You can of course hand it over, threaten his life, or pass a speech check to keep the item.
Anyway, the note tells you to deliver the item to a man in Girdershade (the only man if I am not mistaken). Well, I went to Girdershade and delivered it and the quest ends with the man giving you 200 caps (300 with a speech check). As far as I could tell there was nothing else... no explanation... nothing.
This quest felt like someone trying to tell you a story and then when you reach the end of the whole ordeal you find out that all they did was make a sandwich. The potential was there but none was ever really realized.
Of course I may have simply missed something. Please correct me if you know better.
PetrolMan
big brother
First time out of the vault
Seriously guys. I don't know who much you played that game, but to call Bethsada lazy is really weird. No, the game isn't perfect. But then again, how many games are?
I can understand that some dialogue pops up too early. But then again, they also prepared in case you do missions in front of others. I had this mission from 3 dog to retreive a dish and he'd tell me where my dad was. Then I found out entirely by mistake where he actually was. Still did the mission (for loot, exp and the sheer fun of visiting DC) and I was impressed to hear 3 dog tell me afterwards: "I learned you already found your dad but still helped us out. You'Re a real standup guy." That certainly isn't lazy.
My real complaints about the game are about knowing too soon what a mission is (having the text pop up 5 minutes too early) and having to be in an exact spot to "find" a town. I turned around Paradise fall, did the whole place by the exterior and then standed at the "right spot" to have it marked on the map. The game told me: You found Paradise Falls. No shit. I've been here for half an hour.
I've worked on video games and I'll tell you right now: It is an impressive undertaking to do what they did. It's a full universe that is more complex than I expected. There are many very subtle "jokes" or stories. Like finding a corpse chained to a wall 5 foot from a lockpicking book.
I can understand that some dialogue pops up too early. But then again, they also prepared in case you do missions in front of others. I had this mission from 3 dog to retreive a dish and he'd tell me where my dad was. Then I found out entirely by mistake where he actually was. Still did the mission (for loot, exp and the sheer fun of visiting DC) and I was impressed to hear 3 dog tell me afterwards: "I learned you already found your dad but still helped us out. You'Re a real standup guy." That certainly isn't lazy.
My real complaints about the game are about knowing too soon what a mission is (having the text pop up 5 minutes too early) and having to be in an exact spot to "find" a town. I turned around Paradise fall, did the whole place by the exterior and then standed at the "right spot" to have it marked on the map. The game told me: You found Paradise Falls. No shit. I've been here for half an hour.
I've worked on video games and I'll tell you right now: It is an impressive undertaking to do what they did. It's a full universe that is more complex than I expected. There are many very subtle "jokes" or stories. Like finding a corpse chained to a wall 5 foot from a lockpicking book.
TorontRayne said:
After reading the replies in this thread, and playing through many hours of the game myself (as I did with Oblivion) I really don't think that they actually, consciously made the decision to do that. I think we've all been wrong about that, and we should acknowledge that it's unfair to accuse them of that.
On the contrary, Bethesda is actually, genuinely, truthfully, staffed (in its leading design and programming departments) by people who ARE Xbox360 fanboys who like to sit around giggling at gore and screaming swear-words like a gang of drunken fratboys gathered around EA's latest sports game. Bethesda isn't pandering to the Halo crowd - watching Emil or Todd give interviews, I am confident that they are a PART of that crowd. They're "making what they like" and "what they do/know best." They inherited the RPG elements of Elder Scrolls (and its derivatives, like F3) from Morrowind and Daggerfall, games with which almost the whole of the present staff of Bethesda had nothing to do.
Trivial minds are occupied by trivial things. And videogames of the modern generation are uniformly trivialities - due immensely to Beth and their ilk. Ergo, Bethesda is not staffed by cunning, wiley manipulators in command of a multi-billion-dollar industry. It's just a bunch of geeks having fun; that explains why Fallout3's narrative and characters come off as so "fan-fic"y.
Anybody who thinks that Star Wars or Lord of the Rings were good movies shouldn't be allowed to make computer games.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
qi said:TorontRayne said:
After reading the replies in this thread, and playing through many hours of the game myself (as I did with Oblivion) I really don't think that they actually, consciously made the decision to do that. I think we've all been wrong about that, and we should acknowledge that it's unfair to accuse them of that.
On the contrary, Bethesda is actually, genuinely, truthfully, staffed (in its leading design and programming departments) by people who ARE Xbox360 fanboys who like to sit around giggling at gore and screaming swear-words like a gang of drunken fratboys gathered around EA's latest sports game. Bethesda isn't pandering to the Halo crowd - watching Emil or Todd give interviews, I am confident that they are a PART of that crowd. They're "making what they like" and "what they do/know best." They inherited the RPG elements of Elder Scrolls (and its derivatives, like F3) from Morrowind and Daggerfall, games with which almost the whole of the present staff of Bethesda had nothing to do.
Trivial minds are occupied by trivial things. And videogames of the modern generation are uniformly trivialities - due immensely to Beth and their ilk. Ergo, Bethesda is not staffed by cunning, wiley manipulators in command of a multi-billion-dollar industry. It's just a bunch of geeks having fun; that explains why Fallout3's narrative and characters come off as so "fan-fic"y.
Anybody who thinks that Star Wars or Lord of the Rings were good movies shouldn't be allowed to make computer games.
Did I read that right? LOTR and Star Wars are good movies. I have never enjoyed watching a movie as much as when I watched Star Wars for the first time. Far more than I enjoyed Godfather, Pulp Fiction, or any other classic movie. Those movies have nothing to do with making games or whether someone should make them. At least not that I am aware of. Please explain more if you truly believe this is true.
TorontRayne said:
I can't reply to a lot of the content of your post without likely breaking NMA posting rules regarding statements that could be interpreted as inflammatory personal insults. Suffice it to say that if you count "Star Wars, Godfather, and Pulp Fiction," as being "classic movies," I do not believe that you are a culturally developed individual. That's as neutral and tactful a way as I can put it and I think it would be better for us both if we let it drop as a "difference of opinion."
But to bring it back to games, the fact is that Star Wars and Lord of the Rings have had observable, detrimental impacts upon narratives in computer games; it seems like every story in every game is some combination of the two, and a game's "epic"ness is achieved by emulating aspects of those films as closely as can be done without being accused of plagiarism. The American games industry is predominately composed of fanboys for those (sorts of) films, and the result is obviously negative. Hence, logically, having games made by people who do not like those movies would result in a different general tone in games - perhaps a more intelligent one, such as that which predominated when a more thoughtful and literary brand of "speculative fiction" held sway as the typical influence upon developers.
I believe that games oughtn't to be like movies, but rather like books instead. Movies - at least, relatively recent Hollywood movies, like the sort you deem classic - "wash over" the viewer, aweing them with spectacle. Games are following suit, when the aim ought to be, instead, to involve, stimulate and provoke, as novels or short stories do. Or, in the world of film, as movies you've likely not heard of have done.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
I guess we can call it a difference of opinion, or we can call it a general consensus by many critics. I guess it depends on what you define as a classic. If you don't consider Godfather a classic then please tell me what is.
Star Wars follows the basic Hero of a Thousand Faces concept that has been used hundred of times. I know it has been copied many times over, but by no means did Star Wars, or LOTR invent the sequence of events that computer games or console games follow. It seems to me that the concept that Star Wars in particular follows has been ingrained into our psyches .
The particular concepts like the Call to Adventure, Grizzled Mentor, and The Hero Enduring the Ordeal are all mentioned in the book. It has been repeated over and over, but is added to and taken away with each repetition.
You are right though. Games should stimulate the player. I never disputed that.
As for not being a "cultured individual" that can be debated, but I'm going to college to get my schoolin, so hopefully I can remedy that.
My question is this. Do you honestly think that Lord of the Rings is a bad story? Or simply that the movie did not do it justice. Secondly, you cannot judge the movie based upon peoples emulation of the story. It doesn't change the fact that the story was innovative at the time of it's conception.
I guess it does really boil down to an difference of opinion though. I like Pulp Fiction and Godfather, but never did I say that they are the epitome of classic movies, or embody everything I think a movie should be.
What movies do you consider classic by the way? I truly love the way that Pulp Fiction's story is told through a series of separate but interconnected stories. I cared for the characters and cared when they got hurt. The story was different and by no means followed a "typical" story path.
Star Wars follows the basic Hero of a Thousand Faces concept that has been used hundred of times. I know it has been copied many times over, but by no means did Star Wars, or LOTR invent the sequence of events that computer games or console games follow. It seems to me that the concept that Star Wars in particular follows has been ingrained into our psyches .
The particular concepts like the Call to Adventure, Grizzled Mentor, and The Hero Enduring the Ordeal are all mentioned in the book. It has been repeated over and over, but is added to and taken away with each repetition.
You are right though. Games should stimulate the player. I never disputed that.
As for not being a "cultured individual" that can be debated, but I'm going to college to get my schoolin, so hopefully I can remedy that.
My question is this. Do you honestly think that Lord of the Rings is a bad story? Or simply that the movie did not do it justice. Secondly, you cannot judge the movie based upon peoples emulation of the story. It doesn't change the fact that the story was innovative at the time of it's conception.
I guess it does really boil down to an difference of opinion though. I like Pulp Fiction and Godfather, but never did I say that they are the epitome of classic movies, or embody everything I think a movie should be.
What movies do you consider classic by the way? I truly love the way that Pulp Fiction's story is told through a series of separate but interconnected stories. I cared for the characters and cared when they got hurt. The story was different and by no means followed a "typical" story path.
qi said:TorontRayne said:Anybody who thinks that Star Wars or Lord of the Rings were good movies shouldn't be allowed to make computer games.
What a silly thing to say. You can't fault the movies for their fans.
But that's beside the point because if Fallout 3 (or any modern computer game) had half the story, creativity, or flair of movies such as the Star Wars trilogy, the LOTRO trilogy, or classics such as The Godfather, we'd be in a second golden age of roleplaying.
Star Wars (prequels included) may have been conventional but it was a very well-put together story with interesting characters and a good balance of charm and excitement. You can fault the acting, you can fault bad directorial decisions, but you can't fault the story. If Fallout 3 had a story half as compelling of Star Wars it would have been worth three times what we paid for it.