Gameplayer Australia previews Fallout 3 (new screenshot)

[Brother None]

I hope to see more screenshots of Vault 101 since according to BN's preview is consistent with FO1's vault design. That and their design for Mr. Handy.

The Vault is pretty great.

I didn't say anything about Mr Handy's design, though. You don't really see him clearly, or rather I was busy scribbling notes as Pete walked up to him. I remember him looking more spherical-based than Mr Handy as we know him, but beyond that, I don't know about the visuals.

It was the Protectron that impressed me.

I think they are listening, to some extent. I also believe though, that they attempted to do a workaround with their super mutants & BoS since there were complaints and murmurs about that, which met with a similar disaster.

I don't believe they're playing in reaction to our opinion, other than sometimes adapting their PR lines when we make too much fun of 'em (they're really scared of people using "Oblivion with Guns" even though it would be good PR. This despite our preview already stating it's a simplification of the game's direction)

The thing is, I've been saying this since before they announced the super mutants and BoS were in the game.

The super mutants being in the east coast is fine. "Super mutant" doesn't imply a specific organization, only a specific heritage, and there's really not enough canon information available to preclude the creation or existence of FEV II on the east coast. The fact that they look different is another matter.

But I also noted there are more problems with doing the same for the BoS. Both in the sense that canon-wise they're a very narrow organization with limited utility, as in the sense of consumer perspective because the two Fallout spin-offs - Tactics and PoS - both went "hai we're making a Fallout game let's put in the BoS!" as if that magically made them loyal to Fallout's name. It's very worrying to see Fallout 3 do the same.

From one of the recent interviews, I noticed the screens that were requested to be removed all had super mutants in them. A good indication that those are NOT the final design, or are no longer meant to be showed anymore..

I think those screenshots were for publication in the magazine, and that they have in fact been published there. The only mistake was putting them online.

I do think they are listening, and do want to surprise us. Although I believe they are probably often a little setback as to the umm.. reactions, that I have seen posted.

And that surprises me more than anything.

Sometimes they give us something good and we tend to react positively. Like the PIPBoy design diary, we all just sat on the sideline and quietly applauded, because a few gripes from SuAside aside it was easy to see they'd put a lot of thought and research into this and their PIPBoy, the weirdness of Vault Boy appearing on it aside, "works" in the setting.

But then they toss something like the BoS profile at us, an enormous retcon and reimagining of the BoS - and exactly the same mistake earlier Fallout spin-offs made...and they're actually surprised when the popular reaction is "oh, c'mon...fuck off, guys"?

That honestly surprises me. And it worries me. If they're going to mess with the setting, I'd rather see it be conscious messing based on a strong vision than simply being unable to grasp what the setting is about. And thinking that turning the BoS into knights in shiny armour is acceptable in the Fallout setting very clearly shouts "you don't get it".

In all honesty, I think posts like "No that's not right. Make it look more like the original Fallout Super Mutants"

...?

We usually devolve to "lol super-orcs" only after we're tired of making the same argument over and over again. Exact complaints of what's wrong with things like the super mutants, the exploding nuclear cars, etc. etc. have been made.

But we're not going to repeat it every time. Now we just say "the stupidity of exploding nuclear cars" and if a new person appears we'll gladly explain why they're stupid. But Bethesda already knows why we think they're stupid, so that isn't for their sake.

 

[Kukident]

I think Bethesda and other gaming sites are just so confused and lost when it comes to anything Fallout. By the time its released it wont matter what the backstory or frontstory is. Because so much bullshit has been said that it seems nobody cares anymore; the pansies just want nukes and bullets. Hell, I'm confused. Can someone tell me the REAL story behind FEV. I once heard it but now I'm just lost. I don't even see fallout 3 as Fallout 3. Its a damn nock off. Like many have said before. I Don't know why we argue over the accurate lore and what not. Because the people at Bethesda don't give a fucking shit. They just want to sell a game. At least Harrison Ford is acting in Indiana Jones 4. Hes old! Why can't they stick to the roots like Indiana Jones 4 is? In INDJ4 they are going to cut back on special effects/CGI to keep it Indiana Jones. And I bet that will sell millions.

one of the best posts evar

i m totally with you

 

[LionXavier]

(they're really scared of people using "Oblivion with Guns" even though it would be good PR. This despite our preview already stating it's a simplification of the game's direction)

And why they should be afraid of the line "Oblivion with guns" being used, especially by themselves, if it would involve a PR benefit? After what we already know about their game, it's not that they publically admitting what is obvious would make the Fallout fan community significatively angrier or proner to reject Fallout 3.

it was easy to see they'd put a lot of thought and research into this and their PIPBoy, the weirdness of Vault Boy appearing on it aside, "works" in the setting.

... Do you sincerely think that the PIPBoy displaying the char's statics and skills (what is clearly a mess up between the originals PIPBoy and char sheet that reflects, maybe not a lack of research, but at least a lack of coherence or ability in putting together that research) really works in the setting?

 

[Brother None]

And why they should be afraid of the line "Oblivion with guns" being used, especially by themselves, if it would involve a PR benefit? After what we already know about their game, it's not that they publically admitting what is obvious would make the Fallout fan community significatively angrier or proner to reject Fallout 3.

Exactly. I doubt they've adapted a bit of the game to us, as PH said they might have, but they do adapt their PR.

How thoughtful.

... Do you sincerely think that the PIPBoy displaying the char's statics and skills (what is clearly a mess up between the originals PIPBoy and char sheet that reflects, maybe not a lack of research, but at least a lack of coherence or ability in putting together that research) really works in the setting?

Sure. Mechanically it makes no sense considering Fallout's p&p roots itself, but the PIPBoy itself still works as a part of the setting. Just requires a bit of suspension of disbelief.

 

[UniversalWolf]

One influence that seems to have vanished in the translation from original Fallout to Bethesda Fallout is the (spaghetti) Western. It was a pretty dominant influence, actually (I'm remembering the brown deserts with cacti and bleached brahmin skulls and whatnot), and it's loss is disheartening. The hole appears to have been patched with excessive cold-grey sci-fi.

 

[xdarkyrex]

One influence that seems to have vanished in the translation from original Fallout to Bethesda Fallout is the (spaghetti) Western. It was a pretty dominant influence, actually (I'm remembering the brown deserts with cacti and bleached brahmin skulls and whatnot), and it's loss is disheartening. The hole appears to have been patched with excessive cold-grey sci-fi.

its a different region of the world.

the browns were very accurae for california (i know, i live here), but for dc its not that color, its more temperate and cloudy.

 

[Logan]

I like the new screenshot, but the sky really bother's me.
Its totally depressive, I dont think I can handle a game that depressive for too long. Its like playing Silent Hill, Its just too much!
Way too much grey, that's agressive, at least for me it is!

 

[Yellow]

I read Cormac Macarthy's "The Road" and it seems like a very depressing take on the post-apocalyptic genre. I plan to read "Earth Abides" next. In "The Road" there are no settlements to think of - only cannibalistic groups who keep people as food and scavenge shoes and guns. In Fallout, they had crops and fruit and drink so It's not surprising that they have settlements.

 

[UniversalWolf]

its a different region of the world.

the browns were very accurae for california (i know, i live here), but for dc its not that color, its more temperate and cloudy.

Yes, and that's not okay. It's Fallout sans the wasteland - one of the many reasons I won't be buying this product. It no longer looks or feels like a western or like Road Warrior. No thank you.

The move to DC is a detriment to the breadth of the game milieu, and has no point beyond gratifying Bethesda's compulsion to own Fallout.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

It is loan from van Buren Reservation - Nuclear Nellie howitzer - also.

The diference is that Nuclear Nelie was going to be very important to determine the ending for reservation

I wonder if super mutant blood could have any mutagenic effects.

I think it would only cause minor mutations, unless the virus was allowed to freely build up in the infected system somehow. Maybe getting A LOT of blood (lke, a small vat full of it), we could have a new Vat ready to turn some people into mutants.

But I believe that someone smart (and mad) enough could simply extract some Super Mutant blood, isolate the FEV and try to reproduce it somehow in a vat full of what the virus needs to prosper, we could have a new vats.

 

[Ausir]

Yes, I thought of the same thing - maybe instead of finding new FEV storage on the East Coast, they just found some laboratory where they were able to isolate and reproduce FEV from super mutant blood?

 

[Bernard Bumner]

But I believe that someone smart (and mad) enough could simply extract some Super Mutant blood, isolate the FEV and try to reproduce it somehow in a vat full of what the virus needs to prosper, we could have a new vats.

Virologists often use nothing more complicated than chicken eggs to amplify virons; you just inject a small amount into an embryonated egg. It really can be quite easy.

Now where could you get eggs from in the Fallout universe?

 

[Ausir]

Deathclaws lay eggs. As do geckos and iguanas.

 

[Brother None]

Something is scratching my memory telling me that direct injection of FEV II = death, but I don't remember where that's from.

 

[Ravager69]

Enclave made FEV II, which was designed to be a ultimate biological weapon. So injection = death.

 

[syllogz]

hi guys,

I have a little problem with this 'extracting the virus from blood' idea.

In real life, a virus is either integrated into the genome of the host or not.
If not, then all it does is replicating itself: making the cells process its DNA or RNA, which in turn will produce viral proteins, that will be assembled into a (tons of) new virus.
In this case, there's no mutation, but the cells will die because too much energy was used for making the viruses instead of running the cell. However the virus can be easily isolated from serum, tissue or cells of the host.

Now if the virus is integrated - which is in fact possible, and there are signs that a lot of gene-like regions of the genome are viral in origin - then you can have mutations. The severe mutation in Fallout is probable sci-fi, but that's okay.
However, to extract the viral code from the genome is a huge task. For that you need the means to compare original DNA with mutated one, which means high-tech lab facility with well-trained scientists. Unless you have the blueprint of the viral code, but then you just build it, no need for mutants blood.


So again, if the virus is incorporated, then you don't have free replicating viruses in the body (since those would kill the organism), unless there is a complicated mechanism to keep them from replicating in that body. But that sounds highly unlikely, as that would defile the whole idea of a virus.


On the other hand, the immune system is built so that everything is recognized, even self, but the reaction against self is abolished in a well-functioning body. But the whole system is very complicated, and it is accomplished by several levels of multiple processes with positive and negative feedbacks.
Now if you tie the virus somehow with the immune system (which is known for HIV), and tie the incorporated viral code with it as well, then you might be able to build something that has both the mutation and the replication-at-bay; and then you can extract mutant blood and use it as a virus source. This would be a very effective mean against sterility, by the way.
But who the hell would want to build such a system in the first place!


EDIT:
Actually, writing this done and then having a cigarette, I realized how this can be achieved.
I hope the CIA and DoD isn't listening

So for a virus to enter a cell, it needs specific receptors on the cell surface to be taken up. Now if you make the virus so that after integration it disables that receptor (either by mutation or just functionally) then you can have free virus in the body with only a low chance of replication.
This might actually explain the sterility too, if the receptor is mostly functional during embryogenesis, when the virus kills the embryo. (There are known to be such receptors, one of them is responsible for a certain type of breast cancer.)

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Hello syllogz,

Well you have explained it well enough, so the idea of Super Mutant blood actually turning normal humans into Super Mutants (sounds like a Vampire BTW) is pretty much far fetched.

Personally I think Mariposa and its vats were the Super Mutants best and only chance to create complete new Super Mutants, with that gone there is no way to create new Super Mutants (unless cloning).
But I really think that all sophisticated laboratories like such syllogz mentioned capable of virus extraction and replication or cloning have all been destroyed.
The Enclave might have had such a facility on their oil rig but we all know what happened to that.

 

[PaladinHeart]

I guess that me thinking they're listening is probably just wishful thinking, but it's a nice thought.

Feedback really is invaluable though. It often can provide a source of inspiration and also lets you know what you're doing wrong. If they don't take in as much as they possibly can, then they're missing out on a very important part of the game making process.

Of course I'm not saying they should use all the feedback, but there are a lot of good ideas out there.

 

[Brother None]

I guess that me thinking they're listening is probably just wishful thinking, but it's a nice thought.

Feedback really is invaluable though. It often can provide a source of inspiration and also lets you know what you're doing wrong. If they don't take in as much as they possibly can, then they're missing out on a very important part of the game making process.

Of course I'm not saying they should use all the feedback, but there are a lot of good ideas out there.

In my experience, only strong developers with a clear vision can take feedback, simply check if it works in what they are trying to do, discard it if it doesn't and adapt it if it's superior.

Developers with weak vision tend to be scared of fan feedback, and justly so. If you have a weak vision you tend to absorb all feedback, and you'll end up with an unhinged game that tries to do too much and ends up doing too little.

 

[Ausir]

Syllogz, remember that in Fallout it's 50s SCIENCE!, not real-world science.