@GAMER New Vegas article scans

[Expresate]

So those rockets aren't missiles but spaceships? That's cool.

How can ghouls in space possibly be cool? It's ridiculous, thats' what it is. And the list of ridiculousness is starting to become much longer than I thought it would.

You also have to love the fact that they mention that people who like FPS will totally like New Vegas' combat.

You guys are in for quite the engaging game, I'm sure.

1. They're not in space, from what I can tell they're trying to get to space. Will they succeed? Probably not.

2. You seem to have skipped over the information in other previews about how they've improved the RPG parts of the game. Improving one FPS part and several RPG parts is pretty damn shitty, right?

 

[Sam Ecorners]

You also have to love the fact that they mention that people who like FPS will totally like New Vegas' combat.

So you pull some vague info from a ridiculously poorly written article from a crappy catalog/magazine and complain about it? That's fair and balanced analysis, yup.

 

[alec]

Oh please, the Ghouls are not in space, they are at a space centre. There's nothing ridiculous about it. Ghouls come across Space Centre, maybe it's heavily radiated so others can't get near and become interested in it. Considering the people writing the game IE "Not Bethesda" i suspect it's a bit more than a "LOL GHOULS IN SPACESHIPS' gag.

No, they're not in space. I hadn't noticed that yet.

So let me rephrase my comment: ghouls trying to becoming a space roaming species? That's so ridiculous you'd think the team that made Fallout 2 was somehow behind this New Vegas contraption. You know, the funny guys who were unable to top the original game and were already sowing the seeds from which later oblivious game developers would reap such brilliant ideas as aliens and space as the final frontier.

1. They're not in space, from what I can tell they're trying to get to space. Will they succeed? Probably not.

I hope they don't, 'cause otherwise we already know what we'll be seeing in Fallout 4. Yeah, that's right: ghouls in space.

2. You seem to have skipped over the information in other previews about how they've improved the RPG parts of the game. Improving one FPS part and several RPG parts is pretty damn shitty, right?

Yeah, I totally missed those points, I skipped over them, my mistake.
Or maybe you skipped over the myriad of threads in which I've already explained to death how I do not consider a game in which your twitchy thumb and not your character's expertise determines the outcome of a fight to be a role playing game. Don't get any big ideas: combat will be straight FPS combat with a stupid (and now dumbed down) VATS system that never made any sense anyway.
The vast amount of dialogue doesn't mean a thing (it's numbers), the "improved" facial expressions don't matter, nor does the quality of the voice actors: if the story is crap, it doesn't matter how beautifully told or rendered this crap comes, it'll still be crap.
So far it looks like New Vegas will be a mish mash of recycled Fallout (2) tidbits, a plethora of casino games, FPS combat, recycled Van Buren tidbits (that didn't feel at home in Van Buren to begin with) and no end boss (because that's such an unexpected thing to do nowadays, it's so nouveau, innit? ). Oh, and it'll all be served to you on a silver platter held by some of the old guys who worked on the old games! Nostalgia! It's just like the old days (just close your eyes now and then)!

So you pull some vague info from a ridiculously poorly written article from a crappy catalog/magazine and complain about it? That's fair and balanced analysis, yup.

Yeah, you're right. That was the very first time I read anything about Obsidian making the definite step towards FPS combat. I've never complained about it before and I don't have any good reasons to complain about it at all really. It's not like FPS combat hasn't been part of roleplaying games since, well, I dunno, the very beginning, right? I remember doing PnP games just holding a Magnum replica and shooting the other participants, blam blam, you're dead. Those were the days, the rules were simple and there never was any discussion about whom had won the fight because BLAM BLAM BLAM I just shot you, you're dead, you can't talk no longer. Sweet memories those PnP days of mine. Solid rules and solid roleplaying action.

You guys are funny.

 

[C2B]

And you have a very narrow view of perspective related to role play and game design.

Aren't we all happy?

 

[alec]

And you have a very narrow view of perspective related to role play and game design.

Care to explain? Or do you seriously expect me to name all the other stuff I expect to find in a Fallout RPG? Do I really have to go over all those things again because you didn't bother to read other threads? Do I have to explain - yet again - why they should have never messed up SPECIAL the way they did? Do I really have to go over the super mutants again? The sheer stupidity and utter fail of choosing Vegas as the new main location? How the scenery still makes no sense? How I detest mini games in a role playing game? How I still fail to see why they had to go SPACE in Fallout 3 and are going to go that way, once again, with this new failure of a Fallout game? How the Sim aspect of the new franchise is appaling and seriously conflicts with my idea of a wasteland where scarcity should be the rule? How the whole goddamn setting of the original game has been raped and killed and drowned and murdered and butchered and dumbed down to cater to the masses? How lightbulbs should be scarce and rare? How the Enclave can't possibly be still around? And so on. There's so much more, and I feel like I'm doing all the work for you here.

Maybe boost your reading skills by reading a thread here and there before stating your narrow minded opinion?

Aren't we all happy?

I'm sure you are.

 

[C2B]

In your entire post the only thing you have done is explain how YOU view role play in crpgs (which isn't defined as you want it to be. Hell, the only reason for Stats in P&P in the first place was because its the only/best way to simulate the charachters abilites and it's influence on the world. This restriction does not count for crpgs (Well, it's still used for help, but there is no reason NOT to combine Player/Charachter skill), how YOU view what is silly even if it's resonably explained. Just to name two.

I said it before in another post. It's impossible for you to be happy with a game.


Also it's not a thing to get worked up about. I respect your opinion.

 

[Dario ff]

C2B, if you ever find yourself in using one parenthesis inside ANOTHER parenthesis, you should consider on rewriting it. I got a bit lost in there.

 

[x'il]

In your entire post the only thing you have done is explain how YOU view role play in crpgs (...)

There's no need to discuss views on crpg's when there was established game mechanics in the original Fallout (that got changed).

 

[alec]

In your entire post the only thing you have done is explain how YOU view role play in crpgs

No I haven't. But I'd welcome you to point out where I did so exactly.

Is there something about the word roleplaying that you do not understand, maybe? It comes from "to play a role". Playing as yourself might be considered playing the role of yourself, but the RPGs that I used to play and still play to this day allow you to actually play a different role than yourself. And that's a real roleplaying game in which you can play roles.

Hell, the only reason for Stats in P&P in the first place was because its the only/best way to simulate the charachters abilites and it's influence on the world.

Yes, so?

This restriction does not count for crpgs

It does if they want to be regarded as roleplaying games. I do'n understand how you fail to see this.

Well, it's still used for help

Oh, you do see it... somewhat...

but there is no reason NOT to combine Player/Charachter skill

Yes, there is: character skill is one of the very core elements of a crpg. It determines the outcome of quests and combat. If you let combat be determined by player skill rather than character skill, you stop making an rpg. You're creating a finger muscle trainer game instead. Adding a couple of rpg elements does not make a game an rpg. It's not because the box says it's an rpg, that it actually is an rpg. And so on. Jesus.

I said it before in another post. It's impossible for you to be happy with a game.

Then you were wrong there as well. There's a shitload of games I truly love and a lot of them I praise higher than Fallout. It's just that when I see a shitty game, I just have to warn people from buying it.

Also it's not a thing to get worked up about.

Yes, it is. They fucked up one of my favourite game frachises and actually managed to do some retrograde damage that way as well. That sucks. And what sucks even more is that most people just go with the flow and actually buy that shit. Worshipping the crap out of the carcass of good ol' Fallout. And if the fish won't bite, just spice it up with some plastic toys, a crap lunchbox, a crap watch, a crap comic, everything completely out of tune with what once was, just hollow and empty, soon green with recycled assets from the classics and fake rpg elements.

My momma always told me to never eat anything that has more than five different ingredients in it and 'if it don't look like food, don't eat.' This game is a remake sequel standalone FPS RPG hybrid Roman space comedy and that's a couple of ingredients too much for good ol' wishy-washy alec. I'm not having it.

I respect your opinion.

What opinion?

 

[cogar66]

Yeah, I totally missed those points, I skipped over them, my mistake. Rolling Eyes
Or maybe you skipped over the myriad of threads in which I've already explained to death how I do not consider a game in which your twitchy thumb and not your character's expertise determines the outcome of a fight to be a role playing game. Don't get any big ideas: combat will be straight FPS combat with a stupid (and now dumbed down) VATS system that never made any sense anyway.

RPG/FPS:

Point and hold the mouse button, things die. Character skill is factored into whether you hit or miss, and how much damage you do.


TBC:

Point and click, things die. Character skill is factored into whether you hit or miss, and how much damage you do.

Wait.

Point and click, things die. Character skill is factored into whether you hit or miss, and how much damage you do.


Wait.

Point and click, things die. Character skill is factored into whether you hit or miss, and how much damage you do.


Wait.


Seriously.

 

[cogar66]

In your entire post the only thing you have done is explain how YOU view role play in crpgs

No I haven't. But I'd welcome you to point out where I did so exactly.

Or maybe you skipped over the myriad of threads in which I've already explained to death how I do not consider a game in which your twitchy thumb and not your character's expertise determines the outcome of a fight to be a role playing game.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

I wonder if it would be difficult for the devs to program a TB option into the engine?

 

[alec]

TBC:

Point and click, things die. Character skill is factored into whether you hit or miss, and how much damage you do.

Fail. Try this:

You point and click, but character skill determines whether your character hits or misses and how much damage your character does.

There's really little point in having these discussions if you don't even know what turnbased combat boils down to.

 

[Expresate]

Or maybe you skipped over the myriad of threads in which I've already explained to death how I do not consider a game in which your twitchy thumb and not your character's expertise determines the outcome of a fight to be a role playing game. Don't get any big ideas: combat will be straight FPS combat with a stupid (and now dumbed down) VATS system that never made any sense anyway.
The vast amount of dialogue doesn't mean a thing (it's numbers), the "improved" facial expressions don't matter, nor does the quality of the voice actors: if the story is crap, it doesn't matter how beautifully told or rendered this crap comes, it'll still be crap.
So far it looks like New Vegas will be a mish mash of recycled Fallout (2) tidbits, a plethora of casino games, FPS combat, recycled Van Buren tidbits (that didn't feel at home in Van Buren to begin with) and no end boss (because that's such an unexpected thing to do nowadays, it's so nouveau, innit? ). Oh, and it'll all be served to you on a silver platter held by some of the old guys who worked on the old games! Nostalgia! It's just like the old days (just close your eyes now and then)!

Reputation System
Multiple possible main quests
Choice of who to join
Possible pacifism
SPECIAL stats actually having a large impact
weapons having skill requirements
Interacting side quests
Quest givers not essential meaning if you kill them you lose the quest (consequences?)

I could go on, but I'm sure you would argue these are all FPS components, right?

I'm going to avoid ranting (Actually, I sure skipped that bullet. Ignore that, then ) about your obvious arrogance ("What opinion?"), and suggest you get a grip on how the world works and stop saying others are less than you because they have a different understanding of concepts involving VIDEO GAMES. You are not a perfect human being, you are not an exemplar to us all. Like me, you're just some guy on the internet arguing about a video game. Just because you have friends who agree with you, doesn't mean you and all of your friend's opinions are fact.

I respect your opinion (yes, it's your OPINION) and understand your dissatisfaction but your attitude enrages me.

Addition: Yes, you're right. Fallout is no longer a pure role-playing game, but calling it a pure FPS is ridiculous. It's still mostly role playing with FPS influence.

 

[cogar66]

TBC:

Point and click, things die. Character skill is factored into whether you hit or miss, and how much damage you do.

Fail. Try this:

You point and click, but character skill determines whether your character hits or misses and how much damage your character does.

There's really little point in having these discussions if you don't even know what turnbased combat boils down to.

HERP DERP CHANGE ONE WORD IMPLYING THAT I'M NOT THE ONE CONTROLLING MY CHARACTER.

Edit: I just re-read this and I see that you also changed "Factors into" to "Determines" but there really isn't a difference. TB: Character skill + weapon damage + roll = Damage.

RPG/FPS: Character skill + weapon damage (+ roll?) = Damage.


The only difference is that you actually aim the weapon, but it isn't a big enough difference to ruin the experience.

 

[alec]

Reputation System
Multiple possible main quests
Choice of who to join
Possible pacifism
SPECIAL stats actually having a large impact
weapons having skill requirements
Interacting side quests
Quest givers not essential meaning if you kill them you lose the quest (consequences?)

I could go on, but I'm sure you would argue these are all FPS components, right?

Well, in all honesty, they aren't RPG elements per se, are they? For each of those elements you name (except SPECIAL specifically, but stat systems in general) I can pretty much name a game in which such an element (or even more than one) was implemented without it being an rpg.
So it's really a moot point you're making.

I'm going to avoid ranting (Actually, I sure skipped that bullet. Ignore that, then ) about your obvious arrogance ("What opinion?"), and suggest you get a grip on how the world works and stop saying others are less than you because they have a different understanding of concepts involving VIDEO GAMES. You are not a perfect human being, you are not an exemplar to us all. Like me, you're just some guy on the internet arguing about a video game. Just because you have friends who agree with you, doesn't mean you and all of your friend's opinions are fact.

Where? What? Who? When did I write those things? Where? Please don't put things into my mouth that I have never ever said. It is very impolite and I think it is regarded as trolling.

I respect your opinion (yes, it's your OPINION) and understand your dissatisfaction but your attitude enrages me.

My attitude is something you either like or you don't. Such is the case with all people's attitudes. You should never expect people to change their attitude just because of you. Which is a good reason to not let it enrage you, because - ultimately - it will not change a thing.

 

[C2B]

Yeah, because I totally wanted you to change your attitude.

That's why I said I respect your opinion.


Thanks for enlighting me.

Edit: Or was that more of a statement? In that case nevermind.

 

[Sam Ecorners]

Muuust reeesist getting draaawn innnn

 

[Expresate]

Where? What? Who? When did I write those things? Where? Please don't put things into my mouth that I have never ever said. It is very impolite and I think it is regarded as trolling.

It's how you write. You come off as very condescending, and very disrespectful. Let me find some quotes from this past argument;

I respect your opinion.

What opinion?

Forgive me if I took it the wrong way but that come off as "my 'opinion' is fact."

Maybe boost your reading skills by reading a thread here and there before stating your narrow minded opinion?

Just plain disrespectful. His opinion is just as valid as yours. He sees role playing games in a different way, but for some reason, because he doesn't see it the same way you do he's not on your level.

You guys are funny.

Very mature way to end an argument."Your opinions are so invalid they're funny to me."

I apologize if these were taken out of context, but hopefully you'll understand people can, and will, make the mistake and maybe you can try and write a little more clearly.

Well, in all honesty, they aren't RPG elements per se, are they? For each of those elements you name (except SPECIAL specifically, but stat systems in general) I can pretty much name a game in which such an element (or even more than one) was implemented without it being an rpg.
So it's really a moot point you're making.

An RPG to me is a game in which you have the freedom to decide how you build your character, how you play with it, and being able to see some kind of immersive response from the game world. All of those things add to that experience.

 

[C2B]

Looking back at my post I maybe at fault here too when I said narrow minded. So, I take that back and sorry.