German translation

[alec]

AN could be really hard to pinpoint, since I doubt you can find some form of pronunciation that the majority of the people uses.
I could be wrong, though.

That's an interesting point. AN does have something artificial to most people (even to me), but it IS the standard. That does not mean that the majority of the people are using it, of course, in fact I think you're right when you claim they don't. But that doesn't change anything: AN is what is (or should be) taught in schools, it's the norm, what you should look up to. The pronunciation should be what you hear in the randstad Holland, but as I pointed out earlier: these last couple of years (or even decennia - I forget), randstad Hollands has shifted and changed in a not so good direction. It has become another regional dialect compared with the AN standards it helped to form in the past. Sad thing.

Yes, there is. It's called Esperanto.

Yeah, and noone actually uses that.

I know two people who speak and write it fluently. It's stupid, though, imo. But there is a not so small group of people who use it. It's quite popular in Africa, by the way.

I still don't see it as two seperate languages, but merely as style-differences, though.

Oh, but I agree completely. I don't think I ever said that they are two different languages. We speak the same language as you guys do, but the more isolated evolution of Flemish has caused more differences than most people know of.

I visit Belgium regularly, and thusly, listen to a lot of Flemish. Personally, I think it sucks. But that's just me.

If it's done on universities, I find it a bit silly, though. You can't teach someone how to properly pronounce language by letting him listen to a minority, because then that is not how the language is properly pronounced.

You can if that minority follows the standard and if the majority is too damn lazy to do the same. You guys are suffering from a bad case of language corruption, and that's a fact. It doesn't end with the regional accents. Dutchmen also have this weird tendency to adopt way too much English into their lingo these last couple of years. And Dutchmen are known to be worse spellers than the Flemish. That's also why we win 9 out of 10 Tien voor Taals!

 

[Brother None]

You can if that minority follows the standard and if the majority is too damn lazy to do the same. You guys are suffering from a bad case of language corruption, and that's a fact. It doesn't end with the regional accents. Dutchmen also have this weird tendency to adopt way too much English into their lingo these last couple of years. And Dutchmen are known to be worse spellers than the Flemish. That's also why we win 9 out of 10 Tien voor Taals!

So?

You're talking about language corruption is a *bad* thing

This is a recent concept. And really stupid. How do you think languages form and evolve? If we want to purify Dutch we'll have to burn out all German, French and English words and what would we be left with? Nothing.

"Pure Dutch" doesn't exist and I don't see why anyone would give any value to it anyway. What's the value of a "language", especially since national identities are fading

 

[alec]

You're talking about language corruption is a *bad* thing

Of course.

This is a recent concept. And really stupid. How do you think languages form and evolve?

In time.

If we want to purify Dutch we'll have to burn out all German, French and English words and what would we be left with? Nothing.

????? That's bs.

"Pure Dutch" doesn't exist and I don't see why anyone would give any value to it anyway.

That's not the point. I am well aware of all the influences Dutch underwent, but those changes took several decennia or even longer. Recent changes happen in like a year or two. Mobile phones (you know, text messages), stupid American import bs like hiphop about pussy and money and druggies, news reporters who aren't even qualified to do the job but happen to have the right face and looks ... all of this utter crap is corrupting our mutual language. You might find that a good thing. I don't.

What's the value of a "language", especially since national identities are fading

Hello? National identities are fading? WTF? Maybe in the Netherlands, my friend, maybe in Germany, hell, maybe even in goddamn Willebroek, but elsewhere in the world, national identities are pretty sacred. Oh wait, you a world citizen, Kharn? You a European? Don't make me laugh. I predict that nationalism (although its' not a very good thing, I agree) is going to get stronger and stronger in the very near future.
I honestly like my language and I hate to see something I like getting sick and stupid because people think adopting the most ridiculous influences from abroad is cool or modern or the way to go. That does not mean I'm a purist (like all the Fallout-purists around here, who don't like to see their holy Fallout setting and story corrupted). It doesn't mean I hate words like 'gitaar' and 'computer' and 'kasteel' and so on. Language is indeed identity. I'm Flemish and I speak and write and read Dutch. Because of this I do my utmost best to respect that language, so I use AN to the best of my possibilities. I'd like to keep it that way.

No offence.

 

[Johns Volition]

Kharn wrote:
"Pure Dutch" doesn't exist and I don't see why anyone would give any value to it anyway.

That's not the point. I am well aware of all the influences Dutch underwent, but those changes took several decennia or even longer. Recent changes happen in like a year or two. Mobile phones (you know, text messages), stupid American import bs like hiphop about pussy and money and druggies, news reporters who aren't even qualified to do the job but happen to have the right face and looks ... all of this utter crap is corrupting our mutual language. You might find that a good thing. I don't.

Don't get me wrong, but the reason languanges evolved so slowly was soly because of the slow exchange of information in those ages.. nowdays with internet, television, cellphone etc. the speed of information exchange has increased extremly, and so has the speed of languange change.. naturall process, and if you ask me a good one... yes you might not like words like pussy etc, but hey there must be reasons they are used.

 

[Jebus]

@ Blade Runner: Do you really believe there is a strong national identity in Belgium? I mean, we have one of the most fragmented forms of state in the world (we have 6 different parliaments for 11 million people, for cryin' out loud), we speak three different languages, and we spend most of our time bickering about 'communautaire' (sry) disputes...

IMHO, Belgians are among the most convinced world citizens around. I mean, since they can't identify with their federal government (mostly), they tend to see themselves in the bigger picture that is the European Union more.

That's without counting in the Socialist Party and their shameless anti-EU populism, of course.

 

[alec]

Do you really believe there is a strong national identity in Belgium? I mean, we have one of the most fragmented forms of state in the world (we have 6 different parliaments for 11 million people, for cryin' out loud), we speak three different languages, and we spend most of our time bickering about 'communautaire' (sry) disputes...

Belgium=artificial contraption, everyone knows that. I don't even feel Belgian because that word has no meaning at all (except in the expression: "Belgian corruption", everyone understands that one). I feel Flemish, and that doens't mean I vote for that fucked-up nationalist party in our country, by the way. I think most Flemish people have that feeling. And I think that most people in 'la Wallonie' don't feel Belgian as well. Rightly so.

IMHO, Belgians are among the most convinced world citizens around. I mean, since they can't identify with their federal government (mostly), they tend to see themselves in the bigger picture that is the European Union more.

As you said yourself: "IMHO". I (and undoubtedly millions of "Belgians") think otherwise. I have no emotional, social, intellectual... ties with any of the countries in the EU. I hate Frenchies, I loath Dutchies, I could kill Germans, and so on. And to be really honest: I wouldn't mind if 3/4 of the Flemish people dropped dead as well. But hey, that's just my opinion. I'm a misanthrope and a danger to national security. You are all warned!

That's without counting in the Socialist Party and their shameless anti-EU populism, of course.

That's the only good thing about that party, IMHO.

 

[Jebus]

Well, it's all a matter of opinions then. I for one hope that one day all the European countries will unite... Really unite.

I know it's wishfull thinking; but who knows? Maybe in another hundred years... There are barely any cultural differences anymore between countries in Europe, and religious differences have lost their importance a long time ago.

The only problem is that, since Romanticism, people all over the world are luggin' that pesky little thing called 'Chauvinism' around. One can only hope that one day they can comprehend the pointlessness of something like that. Unity makes Power, right Blade?

 

[alec]

There are barely any cultural differences anymore between countries in Europe, and religious differences have lost their importance a long time ago.

R U 4 REAL?

Unity makes Power, right Blade?

Sure, Jebus, sure: that's why the Roman Empire fell.

 

[Jebus]

R U 4 REAL?

I know. It's incomprehensable that someone who has an ass like mine would be this intelligent too, but I assure you: I am VERY real. I baffle myself sometimes.

Sure, Jebus, sure: that's why the Roman Empire fell.

Ehm... Please elaborate, good sir...

 

[Brother None]

That's not the point. I am well aware of all the influences Dutch underwent, but those changes took several decennia or even longer. Recent changes happen in like a year or two. Mobile phones (you know, text messages), stupid American import bs like hiphop about pussy and money and druggies, news reporters who aren't even qualified to do the job but happen to have the right face and looks ... all of this utter crap is corrupting our mutual language. You might find that a good thing. I don't.

Why is it relevant whether a change occurs over decades or over years? Like Johns Volition mentioned, times change, communication has improved over the centuries. Everything's running at a faster pace, why should languages grow stagnants and into archaic structures when everything, from cultures to religions, runs ahead?

Hello? National identities are fading? WTF? Maybe in the Netherlands, my friend, maybe in Germany, hell, maybe even in goddamn Willebroek, but elsewhere in the world, national identities are pretty sacred. Oh wait, you a world citizen, Kharn? You a European? Don't make me laugh. I predict that nationalism (although its' not a very good thing, I agree) is going to get stronger and stronger in the very near future.

Yes, I'm a world citizen first, than a European, than a Dutchie, than a Gelderlander, than a citizen of Nijmegen. I don't feel very tied to Rotterdam

Now let's take a few steps back, into the Dark Ages, Blade. At that point, national identities didn't exist. People were a part of a duchy, or a knight's territory. Now if someone at that time would've said "one day, we'll all be citizens of a united country, under a common flag, with no internal struggle within our borders" he would've been ridiculed (if not executed for heresy, which was popular in that time)...

I can't see into the future, and neither can you, but over the past few centuries there has been a strong tendancy to larger unities, larger monopolies and a stronger center of power with a more absolute monopoly on violence. This tendancy has taken us from disjointed small knighthoods in the 8th century to the beginning of countries in the 12th to the formation of major nations from there to the formation of huge nations like Russia and the US in the 16th and 18th century respectively, and now the trend continues with the European Union, which has a strong potential to become much like other unified nations like China, Russia, India and the US (and if you say "but those aren't as culturally diverse", you're just being ignorant)

The tide could turn, sure, but why would it?

I honestly like my language and I hate to see something I like getting sick and stupid because people think adopting the most ridiculous influences from abroad is cool or modern or the way to go. That does not mean I'm a purist (like all the Fallout-purists around here, who don't like to see their holy Fallout setting and story corrupted). It doesn't mean I hate words like 'gitaar' and 'computer' and 'kasteel' and so on. Language is indeed identity. I'm Flemish and I speak and write and read Dutch. Because of this I do my utmost best to respect that language, so I use AN to the best of my possibilities. I'd like to keep it that way.

Cool? Way to go? You misunderstood. I simply don't care. Maybe they will change, maybe they won't, it's simlpy irrelevant, they'll develop as they will.

I'm a misanthrope and a danger to national security. You are all warned!

Then you shouldn't pretend like your opinion is represenatative of most of the European population. While it varies greatly per country, national identities and borders are unpreventably fading.

R U 4 REAL?

Not only is he for real, he's probably right, like I noted above. It's simple sociogenisis, and a lot of people would have it as unpreventable that Europe unites at some point

Sure, Jebus, sure: that's why the Roman Empire fell.

No, that's why it survived as one of the biggest empires in history for centuries. It fell for completely different reasons

 

[alec]

Oh, you know what: you're right. You're all right. And I'm totally wrong. I don't know doodley-squat about Dutch and other Germanic languages. And I don't have a clue about European history. I'm a lone wolf. And a retard. Nobody understands me because simply put: I speak in tongues. I'm a freak. A pest. And I'm stupid beyond infinity. I'm sorry about that. Really, I'm sorry. From now on, I'll be the apologist. I'm sorry, so sorry. Really, I'm sorry that I ever doubted your opinions. I'll keep my mouth shut from now on... if that is okay with you guys, of course. Is that okay?






I'm sorry.










Really.







Sorry...

 

[Wooz]

*pats Blade and hands out a juicy turnip*

 

[Jebus]

Blade? You scare me...

 

[Lukus]

That a boy

*squirts his cum on BRs forehead*

And stay down!

 

[Brother None]

...

Damn you, Blade, it was just getting interesting

You're a weirdo, whot?

 

[alec]

Blade? You scare me...

I'm sorry, you're absolutely right...

And stay down!

Okay. I'm sorry I got up in the first place. Honestly: I'm sorry...

Damn you, Blade, it was just getting interesting

You're a weirdo, whot?

Oh man, I said I was sorry... Really, man: I'm sorry. What do you want me to say...

I'm sorry for doubting all of you...

 

[Lukus]

...

 

[Jebus]

I already knew Blade was paranoid and a sociopath, but is he scyzofrenic (spelling?) too maybe?

 

[Vimes]

Manic Depressive?

 

[Brother None]

Blade, you're freaking me out. I yield, I yield!