Earth
Vault Senior Citizen
Found it: 1:53:00 is around when he says it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQeov8Ii4s0
EDIT: Watching this video has made me hate the gaming community.
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Giantbomb: FO4 is the third most disappointing game of 2015
Vault Senior Citizen
Found it: 1:53:00 is around when he says it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQeov8Ii4s0
EDIT: Watching this video has made me hate the gaming community.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
That's why I said that the exploration aspect and gunplay feels like it's been in development for a long time whereas other things haven't. But to say that the product as a whole (every single aspect) feels like it is just slapped together just comes across as bashing Bethesda for the sake of bashing Bethesda. And when I mean "are we really that entitled" I mean are we really so entitled to perfection that if it doesn't reach or exceed our expectations then we should bash the entire thing as if every single square-milimeter of it is godawful?
I just don't like the way people keep saying that, that it feels to them like it didn't have 4+ years of development time. Cause when I roll through it I can see why it took them 4+ years to develop the game. But I can also see what they prioritized and what they failed at and I can also see how this engine simply or game development formula isn't going to work much longer considering the vast amount of bugs and glitches that it has.
On that note, I'm kinda wary of playing Fallout 4 right now cause 3 times during last nights 5 hours session there were doors leading to quest NPC's that stopped working. One of them was for the Railroad's meeting place. I dunno if it would ever reset (tried fast-traveling eslewhere and fast-traveling back, didn't work) but luckily I could console command myself into noclip mode and go up to the roof's exit and enter from there. This is a pretty fucking big deal when it comes to horrible bugs. A door to a quest NPC not working? That if anything is completely god damn inexcusable.
Fallout 4, to me, clearly looks like a game that took 4+ years to develop. It's just that the people behind it are arrogant incompetent buffoons so what we end up with is a big playground (a very pretty and neat playground with lots of neat little hidden secrets all around it) who's every feature beyond the gunplay and world design feels like it is stitched together with kids glue. But I will never say that this game does not feel like it took 4 years to develop, that they just sat around with their thumbs up their asses. They clearly didn't. It's just that for all their hard work you can't really squeeze quality content out of arrogant incompetent buffoons and the engine that they're working with simply isn't suitable for the kinda stuff they want to create. Either they need to spend time overhauling it completely or they need to buy/build a new one.
I should probably have used a different word than entitled. Can't really think of any other word than that one. English isn't my native language so I have no idea what word I want to use to describe this shit. "Entitled" was the first word that came to mind, the more I think about it the less fitting the word was. Oh well.
I just don't think that's the right way to criticize Bethesda, to say that it doesn't feel like it took them 4+ years to develop Fallout 4 implies (to me) that you're saying that it was something they churned out in like a year or two. And I just don't see that. The game got way too much stuff going for it to feel that way to me. I'd rather focus my criticism towards their arrogance, their stubbornness and their incompetence.[edit]
I'm probably just being pedantic about what phrasing to use.
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The Witcher 3?
I think part of the problem is that Beth has been making this kind of schlock for the last 15 years or so. You really can't consider them amateurs by any standard. And yet, a company like CD red, with less funds, less people, less experience, blows them out of the water with almost all of their games. I mean no mater if you take TW1, 2 or 3, each of those games is better in beeing an RPG than any of the Bethesda titles. What ever if TW3 is the perfect open-world-RPG, is a whole different story. But compared to F4 it deserves the title goty.
So naturally you simply have to ask your self, 4 years (probably more) for this? Exploration aside, is it really THAT much? Is it more or less compared to Skyrim? I would assume that Fallout 4 contains at least as much copy-pasta-content for the player to devour like Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Add to that their shitty Radiant quest - probably one of the worst things ever. And you get what? 1 year of development for it? Again, they should have most of the tools, the people, knowledge etc. And yet. They still barely improved anything here from Morrowind, outside of the visuals. Hell, making Fallout 4 should have been even EASIER, if you consider how simplified the whole gameplay and system behind it is, no role plaiyng, less narration, less stuff to test/check, no skill based system. They have been pretty much in the same position like Obsidian here, and yet, look what they achieved in 18 months. If that is the best Bethesda can do in 4 years.
Besides, I have read that people from ID software actually lend a hand in the making of the gun-play. Who knows how much they did and to what extend that help was. But even here, some say that Fallout 4s shooter gameplay falls a bit short to what you get in most pure shooters, where the RPG part isn't bolted on it for no reason.
*Edit
Well, we can all only speculate anyway, since no one of us works at Bethesda. But when I think about it, I can't help it but think, that they have this concept or idea with making games. Some approach where the goal is to sell as many copies to as many people you can, with the least amount of resources and money thrown in the project. Look at their marketing this time around. Not even their marketing and hype machine was as big like with Fallout 3 and Skyrim. Or at least that is the feeling I get from it. But I could be wrong.
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ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Ubisoft isn't really the best example. They're still holding up a pretty good community regardless of their outright fuckery of business practices. And yes, the industry standard has killed plenty of good developers. That really means adapt to survive, because industry standards change once in a very long while. Not a fun fact, but it's still fact. I'm not going to sit and wait just to grab two games per year from dedicated developers, I'm getting any games I enjoy no matter of the situation behind it.
Does everyone really believe Bethesda bribed reviewers for high scores? They don't seem like a nearly influential enough company like EA to attempt that kind of thing. I honestly think it's just a matter of modern reviewers being too quick to judge before they actually get into the depth, and notice that Fallout 4 doesn't actually have depth. Notice how reviewers don't finish the games they review before posting a score anymore?
It definitely had more than that, and their priorities were fucked, and they did spend time on the completely wrong stuff.
Their attempt to fit modern graphical options like ambient occlusion and rendering gradient shadows into Gamebryo MkII probably took them half of the development time they got. Then they spent the majority of the other half on the settlements (when really, it's one of the things that they could've left for the modders without anyone minding) and the rest of the time they had to finish up because there were too many leaks and Bethesda didn't want to kill profits by releasing the game after the hype wave was over. Settlements, graphics, hype time. And so, not much time left for the actual, you know, Fallout.
Bethesda Game Studios' products are published by Bethesda Softworks, who also published Dishonored and Wolfenstein: TNO. Companies under Zenimax are usually generation-leading in the area of first-person game engines. So it's definitely shallow beyond a laughable degree. I mean, seriously, those two might not be revolutionary in terms of storywriting, but the gameplay was some of the best designed I've seen.
Plus, word is that they're hardcoding things a lot so as to create modding parity between consoles and PC. Wouldn't want the console gamers to feel like they're missing out. Next Elder Scrolls might not even allow a script extender.
Don't give them ideas, dang it.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
I think it is a good example because they are pushing out the same shit over and over. Enough times to where I think Assassins Creed: Syndicate, despite being a good game, didn't sell that well. Now they are shoveling out another Farcry sequel so quick it isn't even funny. Sure, they still produce some good titles, but their design philosophy as of late has been more of the same, with the odd title or two that strays from that path.
Adapt to survive for these developers is using the same template while putting a new coat of paint on it. Fans can only take so much of that. Look at Watch Dogs. That one didn't go over too well. Playing it safe only works for so long. Bethesda has followed that same formula. What happens when people are tired of Assassins Creed and Farcry? Another Watch Dogs sequel? Tom Clancy? I am eager to see what they have lined up, really. I just won't hold my breath because they don't really try to do anything different. I'm willing to bet they will make another Prince of Persia before they create a new IP.
The best review I read for the game was the one from the International Business Times. Although there is a video, the author also wrote a fairly lengthy review which essentially accused the game of being boring. I should've gone by his review instead of wanting to believe that FO:4 would be an enhancement and new story line built on FO:NV's base. The Bethesda demos and, more importantly, what they weren't talking about are just so obvious in hindsight....
[ETA] The article itself isn't as long as I remember it being.
[ETA] The article itself isn't as long as I remember it being.
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PossibleCabbage
Vault 22 Survivor
We're bumping up on territory where the line between "entitled behavior" and "totally reasonable behavior" is pretty thin, so I understand the confusion.
But as an example here is an opinion that does not smack of entitlement: "I didn't think the ending to Mass Effect 3 was very good"
Here is a related opinion that does: "The ending to Mass Effect 3 was so bad that they need to go back and change it to appease the fans [i.e. me]"
The bright line standard is whether you are making demands of someone that you really have no right to make demands of (this is entitlement) or you're simply expressing personal preference and explaining why you feel the way you do (this is normal and healthy).
I think the problem with talking about "it doesn't look like it took x time to produce" is that a lot of people who talk about video games a lot don't really have much understanding about the game development process, and especially not the AAA game development process. Better to simply say "Fallout 4 seems like a game that would have been improved greatly by giving it more time to marinate in development."
But "having more time" doesn't really help if your priorities are wrong or you've made mistakes that aren't really fixable I mean, you can spend a lot of time on a game and make something pretty crappy. Not even going for the low hanging fruit of Duke Nukem Forever, just look at the XCOM FPS and the Thief reboot. The Game that was eventually "the Bureau: XCOM Declassified" was announced in April 2010, after having been kicked around internally since 2007, and we saw how that game turned out. Thief 4 was announced in 2009 and the game eventually titled "Thief" came out in 2014 and was essentially three different abortive efforts at making an updated Thief game stitched together like some sort of Frankenstein Monster.
So time's not always the issue.
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Don't worry, they'll be blacklisted like Kotaku (where decline occurs) for speaking against the Gospel of Beth.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Speaking of Fallout 4 exploration, I found it lacking. Let me go into explanation, I explore one building which results in killing everything there then(looting, lockpicking, terminal reading, ect). I head to another place that looks suspiciously similar, oh look it looks as if it was copy and pasted with different enemies and loot(because randomly generated loot is SOO rewarding 
). Now I might be in the minority but when it comes to ruins I like to have them tied to quests to make them engaging or information detailing the lore of the place or what has happened(West-Tek for example) or else I tend to find them boring when the whole purpose of having it there was to kill every living/unliving thing in there and loot.
Sure the occasional ruin for the purpose of killing and looting is fun but most of the time I feel as if that's all I'm doing in Fallout 4. I can't stand that argument of "I don't like places tied to quests because I want to roleplay it out myself, if you don't do that yourself you don't have much of an imagination.". I don't mean to go off topic I just wanted to explain how the exploration isn't as magical as some make it out to be.
). Now I might be in the minority but when it comes to ruins I like to have them tied to quests to make them engaging or information detailing the lore of the place or what has happened(West-Tek for example) or else I tend to find them boring when the whole purpose of having it there was to kill every living/unliving thing in there and loot.Sure the occasional ruin for the purpose of killing and looting is fun but most of the time I feel as if that's all I'm doing in Fallout 4. I can't stand that argument of "I don't like places tied to quests because I want to roleplay it out myself, if you don't do that yourself you don't have much of an imagination.". I don't mean to go off topic I just wanted to explain how the exploration isn't as magical as some make it out to be.
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Of course I can only talk about Skyrim as far as the exploration goes, but if it is anything like that in Fallout 4, than I have to say, the last time where they made actually a game where exploration was really worth it was Morrowind. Why? Simple. Because Morrowind actually had HANDPLACED and USEFULL items out there to look out for. Not randomly generated +10% fire damage and 1,2% chance to freeze on hit garbage.
People confuse today exploration and searching for loot with grinding. THis might work wonders for MMOs and a game like Diablo 3. But I never understood what people like about it in a single player sand box game like Skyrim/Fallout4. Seriously. Where is the fun and excitement of exploring dangerous places and defeating powerfull enemies, if all you can find is random loot adjusted to your level? Hey! Super-Awesome-Player! Sorry! No Enclave PA for you yet, you have to be at least lvl 20 for them to spawn randomly over the wasteland ...
I am not saying ALL kind of randomness is garbage. But they really exagerate this with ther games. Fucking MMO crap in single player games ...
People confuse today exploration and searching for loot with grinding. THis might work wonders for MMOs and a game like Diablo 3. But I never understood what people like about it in a single player sand box game like Skyrim/Fallout4. Seriously. Where is the fun and excitement of exploring dangerous places and defeating powerfull enemies, if all you can find is random loot adjusted to your level? Hey! Super-Awesome-Player! Sorry! No Enclave PA for you yet, you have to be at least lvl 20 for them to spawn randomly over the wasteland ...
I am not saying ALL kind of randomness is garbage. But they really exagerate this with ther games. Fucking MMO crap in single player games ...
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
And from my side, it's impossible to explain why there are enjoyable aspects, but there are. It's a little frustrating when people write it off as denial (not here, though). It's clear the games are full of flaws, but the good parts of it are... inexplicable. I really have no idea how I would go with it. This is, of course, not even yet counting Fallout 4's not-Fallout-ness.
I think part of the problem is that games like Fallout 4 or Skyrim are rather addictive than real fun. I am not saying that Beths target is to make addictive games, it's not some MMO or what ever. And from what I can say, both Fallout 3 and Skyrim have their moments and fun. The problem is, it wears down very fast, and you find your self in teh game more because it becamse a habbit rather than seeking fun. It's a skinner box. And once I realized that, my "fun" with Bethesda titles droped a lot.
I think that people should be entitled to the product they paid $70 for and was advertised as a RPG, on Steam the game info says:
- Title: Fallout 4
- Genre: RPG
- Developer: Bethesda Game Studios
- Publisher: Bethesda Softworks
- Release Date: 10 Nov, 2015
So the game is sold as a RPG, notice how the genre doesn't even include Adventure or Shooter or anything else that Fallout 4 actually is.
Not many games (including AAA) cost $70 on release and Fallout 4 was sold and advertised as a mainly open-world RPG game on E3, so when people forked over a LOT of money to get the game they were told about and they get Fallout 4 instead... I would get annoyed too
.People seems to forget that $70 is a bit of money, and if what you bought is not what was advertised or what the seller made you believe it would be, you have the right to complain, you were lied to and tricked to spend your money
.If thousands of people went to a car dealership and bought a new shiny model of a car that was advertised it had 4wd + passenger airbags and were delivered a a only front wheel drive car and with just one passenger airbag and on top of that the air conditioner doesn't work (to represent bugs)... It would probably be on the news everywhere and people would complain and go to consumer rights organisations and that car dealership would be suffering repercussions and probably have to return the money or replace the product for the one really advertised, and it would be right, people would see it deserved what it got. So why is it that so many game companies keep delivering products that fall short of what they promise, get the money from the consumers and if someone posts around how bad the product is and how it is not what they promised and then points out the problems, so many people come by and beat-up those poor consumers that have the right to feel cheated?
I will never understand why the gaming industry is not forced to follow the laws that any other industry that make and sells products have to follow and how many people come to the defence of the gaming companies that false advertise their product.
Rant over... Sorry about that... I am old and didn't sleep well so I am very irritable today
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ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Well, I guess I'm an easy addict, then.
Must be that their development team still had Fallout Shelter habits stuck over and forgot they weren't making a mobile game.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Yeah I think they accidentally put "RPG" and meant to put "Hiking sim - Action game". There's no way someone could tell me with a straight face that Fallout 4 is an RPG and expect me to believe that. I would simply say, come back and see if you'll tell me that after you play a real RPG. See their fans(as I have already shown a comment of) think dialogue doesn't matter and "RPG" means to role play with your imagination to bypass the limitations. If Fallout 4 is an RPG then we might as well say every game is an RPG.
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You're talking about people here that will try to convince you with a straight face how even Doom and Halo are RPGs 
. However, I can understand their reasoning. If they would have to admit that they are not RPGs, they would have also to actually accept the reality that no Bethesda game past Morrowind is actually worth to be called an RPG. Particularly the last 2.
. However, I can understand their reasoning. If they would have to admit that they are not RPGs, they would have also to actually accept the reality that no Bethesda game past Morrowind is actually worth to be called an RPG. Particularly the last 2.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Wait you've seen people claim Doom and Halo to be RPGs? 
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Doom as an old school hardcore shooter but if that's an RPG then so is Call of Duty.
I feel that no matter what there's just no convincing them that these Bethesda games are not RPGs, it's a shame how much was stripped from the Elder Scrolls series like when comparing Daggerfall to Skyrim. Dagger fall even had skills like climbing which allowed you to climb over city walls when the doors to the city were closed at night or climbing the wall of a building. Even from Daggerfall to Morrowind there was dumbing down, to be honest though I didn't like how some things were randomly generated like having to go to like dungeons if I recall correctly(been a long time since I played the game).
I like the way Fallout 1 and 2 did things with the world and world map like the random encounters, the way you travel the large map, places being handcrafted so to speak(all the towns and cities like NCR, Vault City, Navarre, ect). Speaking of random encounters, Fallout 2 made them way too common like every other mile I have raiders or fire geckos trying to murder me.
There's no way to show these people what real RPGs are since they're the kind of people that like to play newer games with nicer graphics since to them "nice graphics = good game". They'll likely just write them off as games with poor looking graphics with outdated mechanics and outdated view perspective(since FPS and TPS seem to be all the rage now). I feel there's no hope for them until Beth slips up and they stumble across one of these indie games based of off the classical RPGs we've all come to love leading them to the originals, but maybe I'm just being silly.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Doom as an old school hardcore shooter but if that's an RPG then so is Call of Duty.
I feel that no matter what there's just no convincing them that these Bethesda games are not RPGs, it's a shame how much was stripped from the Elder Scrolls series like when comparing Daggerfall to Skyrim. Dagger fall even had skills like climbing which allowed you to climb over city walls when the doors to the city were closed at night or climbing the wall of a building. Even from Daggerfall to Morrowind there was dumbing down, to be honest though I didn't like how some things were randomly generated like having to go to like dungeons if I recall correctly(been a long time since I played the game).
I like the way Fallout 1 and 2 did things with the world and world map like the random encounters, the way you travel the large map, places being handcrafted so to speak(all the towns and cities like NCR, Vault City, Navarre, ect). Speaking of random encounters, Fallout 2 made them way too common like every other mile I have raiders or fire geckos trying to murder me.
There's no way to show these people what real RPGs are since they're the kind of people that like to play newer games with nicer graphics since to them "nice graphics = good game". They'll likely just write them off as games with poor looking graphics with outdated mechanics and outdated view perspective(since FPS and TPS seem to be all the rage now). I feel there's no hope for them until Beth slips up and they stumble across one of these indie games based of off the classical RPGs we've all come to love leading them to the originals, but maybe I'm just being silly.
Well ... it can make your head explode. So much for sure. It's the same people that will tell you in the same breath that Planescape sucks, because they don't want to play a book. In such a world Call of Duty can be an RPG. It also goes somewhat in the same direction of the people that want you to believe that World of Tanks is an MMO, even though, it is just counter strike with tanks. I am not saying anything about the quality! But seriously, to many stuff today gets sold as MMO or RPG, even though, it has almost nothing to do with those classifications.
TransgenderVaultDeweller
"Fallout 4 adds to the lore"
Welp, Even though fallout is pretty much dead to me untill either fallout: Project Brazil or another fallout title is announced from obsidian. I'll be playing the witcher 3 and gearing up towards one of my new interesting Sci-Fic RPGs set to come out soon!
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GlutinousRice
Ne travaillez jamais
2077 isn't the title, it's the release date.
Just joking, I hope it comes out and that it's going to be a good.