Give us money or we will nuke the american economy!

Loxley

Water Chip? Been There, Done That
GMs Youtube channel just released a new video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHfOKoA1c&feature=related[/youtube]
Give us money or we will take the american economy down with us!

Seems they got enough cash for about 3 months and then they will fall. Same with chrysler while ford have a little more time since they took upp big loans before the crisis started. So! Anyone think this will happen?

Personally I am not certain if it would be a good thing. If the industry were to collapse new american car firms would arrise from the apocalypse and these would probably have the foresight to act better than the current ones have until today. On the other hand, the process getting there would be a bad one.
 
On the plus side, all the cars would probably be cheaper (as if they weren't cheap already in the US).
 
its another example of how stupid unions fuck EVERYONE over......

i dont believe all the failures in our economy or due to lack of bank loans.... not by a long fucking shot... the fact that our businesses are more often forced to make tax desisions instead of business desisions and that they are forced often to pay unfair prices for services rendered(aka wages) because of actions of unions is a good clue that something is hideously horribly wrong. we need a complete restructure in the tax system in the government(and put an end to different tax rules for everyone and every tiny situation), and we need to put a stop to the socialist trend in the nation.... bailouts dont fix the problem, they just are band aids on a structure that needs to be replaced.
 
Global economic meltdown? Massive lay-offs? Fuel crisis? Prices skyrocketing? Pandemical food riots? A definite eastward shift in world power? World war 3 breaks out as the west tries desperately to cling to its falling economical power? Global thermonuclear exchange?


Only time, along with hordes and legions of upcoming sci-fi and political thriller writers, pushed forward by apocalyptic spinsters, will tell.

If everyone believes hard enough that this is the worst crisis mankind has seen since the Lake Toba eruptions 75,000 years ago, it might just reach that. Chill out, people. It's most likely NOT the end of the world.
 
Don't undersell it, dude, it's a pretty big crisis and no matter what the economic pundits like to tell you, it's not just about faith. Faith is what makes the stock market bottom out but that's not where the core of the problem was. Even bad mortgages weren't the core. The core was that the financial system had a ridiculous concept of everyone loaning to everyone and guaranteeing money they never had ad infinitum. Great way to make ghost money, but the moment someone comes looking, it all goes poof.

What keeps surprising me is how much it caught everyone of guard, because the whole financial crisis basically started months ago and was never solved. Even I - with very basic economic schooling - could see it was not solved, and just said "it'll be back in 3-6 months" and hey presto here it is.

Weird shit. Everyone should've seen that one coming.

Anyway so yeah we're heading into recession. Recession always sucks. What more's there to it? If America loses its position as leading world economy then it's about time because you dawgs have been clutching on by the fingernails for ages anyway.

But you don't even wanna know how hard it's going to get if more than a million jobs go bust overnight. Nevermind the car maker's cheap manoeuvres to instil fear on you, they're just copying from W's trick book. It's the same story in Europe. You can not be a mature economy and be purely service-based, and the automotive industry is one of the last real production points for both Europe and the US.

"If they fold they'll just get replaced" sounds cute on cheap magazines, but that's not really how it'll work out in economic terms.

Fix or no fix, and that depends on the efficiency of our governments, there should be no doubt that this is or should be the death of our old financial system and a further tightening on the net of free-market thinking - which has been dead for more than a hundred years anyway.

...

Fun times?
 
my big question, they talk about the situation they are in now that they need 50 billion dollars to stay open, but what fucking mistakes did they make to get here...

was it making too many SUVs that caused this problem?

why cant i buy a replacement for my swift/metro/sprint anymore in the US... there isnt a replacement line for a 50+ mpg in the US.
 
"If they fold they'll just get replaced" sounds cute on cheap magazines, but that's not really how it'll work out in economic terms.

hrmm... true, but you have to understand the nature of ecenomics. its all trade, just because you dont sell a car for shit load of pizza doesnt mean thats what it equates to. you see REAL business, REAL trade(as in not a swindle) isnt gaining anything, its to trade something you have acess to, something you can produce for something you otherwise could not have for yourself. such as a farmer trading cotton for clothes. he may raise the stuff but there is no way he is going to make a decent shirt.

everyone has their niche, everyone has something they do well. as the global economy ballences it will start to be less centralized again. no one country is great at producing everything, places like japan, korea, china, india they all are good at certain things and they have formed their niche in the global economy. japan and the us are both high tech exporters, however often our products(save for playstation 3 and xbox) dont generally compete, often they compliment. korea has developed itself into an exellent explorter of things such as cars and it shows across asia and even here in the us. china, well we all know what china does right?

the problem is that gm, ford and all the rest of the american based auto giants just cant seem to do it as well as everyone else anymore. they aren't able to weave through the maze of taxes in the us and they aren't able to get fair deals from unions on laybor disputes. places like japan, germany, and korea are producing cars but they have the methodology to get it done better then the way we do it. as long as our industries stagnate like this they are doomed, its just the truth. our auto industry is being eliminated by competition, part of it is that our government is smothering our businesses with ever increasing socialist oversight and taxes but its a large number of other reasons.

now i say let the fucking shit collapse. with something as complex as the economy THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT FIX IT, save maybe by keeping its nose out of business for once(i know you guys are gonna state all this bullshit about the current banking crisis but thats only the largest symptom of a MUCH greater sickness).

in nature we have had massive extinctions several times. each time life flowed back across the earth with ever increesing ferocity and strength. it wiped the slate clean and allowed things to progress and grow again. this even happens in a smaller scale in many types of forests across the world, such as a pine forest which goes through cycles of "collapses" through beetles and fire about every 80 years so the new better developed generation can grow up.

the great depression caused a great many things, including possibly making what could have been a european war a global war. however it was not the end of all things, in many rights it was a time where people re thought business, and new roots were growing. with room for new things to move around it allowed a whole deal of growth, the only issue was that things did not return to their former levels until the 1950's.

me i'll go the long total fix route. i say let the fire spread and clense the obsolete, redundant and crumbleing. let a new system grow up and in 30-40 years time what wonders we will sew....
 
fractional reserve economics based on a centralized bank is never a good answer. ANDREW JACKSON former president of the united states help stop the central banks from causing such a prob in the past, but since 1913 and the inception the federal reserve bank, has caused a flow of money in the terms of more is less.

how can you solve the problems of inflation, with more inflation?

you cant, the ceo's want to crash out, ENRON all over again. just this time, money will be so inflated that I think the only hope is, Resourced Based Economic model. check the facts. these guys are nothing more then criminals that have jacked the fiscal and financial quantitative
 
It's the apocalypse.

I warned you guys that this would happen.

But you wouldn't listen.

It's all falling apart.

All of it.

Finally...

:twisted:
 
The only thing I remember you saying would happen was you having to marry your girlfriend (who looks like a boy apparently) because you knocked her up.

And that was crazy drunken gibberish.
 
So, in case this is the apocalypse? What I buy?

Should I stock some of those new-fangled anti-rad drugs the USA made?

What guns would be best during and after the apocalypse? And how many bullets? Which guns are more durable? I was thinking a AK47 and a Smith & Wesson Revolver.

Should I buy a Interceptor before the auto companies go under? Or can someone recommend me a better car? Is it possible to convert a Interceptor to run on a hybrid Gasoline/Ethanol engine?

Should I get a cool, agressive dog? Or should I try to tame other animal?

What should I do in case Mutants show up?

Where they sell EMP grenades? I would need some if I found some military base good for scavenging.

Do anyone knows where I can find kits to make basic things - IE farming, crop rotation, gunpowder and ethanol?
 
Our (American) economy is definitely in a recession. Just this week I know of three separate businesses near where I live that laid off 300-500 employees, that's just in one single day. IBM will be laying off somewhere in the neighborhood of 75,000 by the end of this year, Intel perhaps even more, so on and so forth (though companies in this industry always have high turnover rates.) Freightliner, a company that produces the massive rigs used to transport goods across the country laid off over one thousand employees in a single day, and will be closing it's doors soon enough.

What I am getting at is that it is clear that we're in a recession. Yes, it's global, but as far as what Brother None said about us not leading the world economy, it's true, we wont be/aren't going to be. We're getting hit hard right now, and it's not just in one sector, it's across the board.

I doubt it's the apocalypse, or even the end of the world. Maybe really hard times ahead, the job market is bottlenecking. At IBM they've put a freeze on hiring. There are about 350 open positions in IBM that will be filled. That's 350 jobs to be split between the 75,000 that are being laid off (they offer the positions to the ones being laid off before looking outside the company.) So 350 people wont lose their jobs, but the rest of them will. It's worse in other places, where there are no jobs available at all. Finding a new job right now is next to impossible, even flipping burgers or greeting the masses at a wal mart, all of those jobs have been snatched up. Just the other day I went to the grocery store, and the lady at the check stand was just a few days younger than dirt, with her retirement and her husbands retirement, plus social security combined together she still can't afford to make end's meat, so she had to get a job just to survive. Thankfully I haven't felt the pressure, I've always been relatively poor, so nothing really changed for me. Thankfully I am young, if I got laid off from this cushy job that I work now, I could fall back on my military history and get some stupid security job, or wost case get some manual labor job working construction or something. But a lot of people aren't so lucky, and even those jobs will start drying up soon enough as well.
 
Over $1500 of every US car goes directly to Health Insurance.

If you want to know one reason Europe and Asia can build cars cheaper, it is the retarded health system in the USA. Universal healthcare is absolutely necessary. The USA is the only modern country in the entire world without it. The only one.


As for what happens to the auto industry if GM goes under; the entire industry suffers. GM is the largest client of many parts manufacturers. Manufacturers that supply other auto makers like Honda and Toyota. GM goes under, then those part manufacturers do too. Those part manufacturers go under and suddenly entire lines of cars from other manufacturers become no longer economically viable.


The bailout is needed, but we need to do basically what FDR did to GM, Ford, and Chrysler. We need to tell them what they need to be making. FDR told them they needed to build tanks, etc. because of WW2 looming. Well, we have an environmental crisis looming and we need to give the big 3 the money but with the contingent that we get to dictate what they make for the next X years.
 
Why is it that Toyota and Honda aren't begging for handouts?

Here's why: They sold products that were worth buying. While Honda was selling cars like the Fit, GM was telling me that I needed a Dodge Ram truck with a Viper engine in it.

Go figure that they're in trouble now.

Fuck 'em I say. Part of "capitalism" is failure, and when the times were good, these companies didn't want any part of "socialism."

You have your free market, now live in it.
 
rcorporon said:
Why is it that Toyota and Honda aren't begging for handouts?

Here's why: They sold products that were worth buying. While Honda was selling cars like the Fit, GM was telling me that I needed a Dodge Ram truck with a Viper engine in it.

Go figure that they're in trouble now.

Fuck 'em I say. Part of "capitalism" is failure, and when the times were good, these companies didn't want any part of "socialism."

You have your free market, now live in it.

GM goes down, they take down their parts suppliers with them, AND with the parts suppliers, Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, etc. get hit really really really hard as well.

EDIT: Oh, and Honda, toyota, etc. aren't asking for AMERICAN handouts because they aren't AMERICAN companies.
 
Nullifidian said:
Over $1500 of every US car goes directly to Health Insurance.

If you want to know one reason Europe and Asia can build cars cheaper, it is the retarded health system in the USA. Universal healthcare is absolutely necessary. The USA is the only modern country in the entire world without it. The only one.

Universal healthcare just means the money comes from taxes, instead of funded by the company, nothing actually changes.

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So what do people outside of the US think of US cars?

In England they are mostly considered to be lagging in technology, and build quality, and far to fuel hungry.
 
i find it incredibly funny that the AUTO industry uses the fact that the US Defense relies on the auto industry to produce weapons/military vehicles... and then says that in case of a large scale conflict they'll need the auto industry.

i mean wtf. get your priorities straight, you dumb fucks.
 
aronsearle said:
Nullifidian said:
Over $1500 of every US car goes directly to Health Insurance.

If you want to know one reason Europe and Asia can build cars cheaper, it is the retarded health system in the USA. Universal healthcare is absolutely necessary. The USA is the only modern country in the entire world without it. The only one.

Universal healthcare just means the money comes from taxes, instead of funded by the company, nothing actually changes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------




So what do people outside of the US think of US cars?

In England they are mostly considered to be lagging in technology, and build quality, and far to fuel hungry.


No, universal healthcare doesn't just mean money comes from taxes instead. It means a single payer system with actually LESS overhead. That's why healthcare systems with universal healthcare cost significantly less per person than the US system does. It also removes the cycle of increased costs resulting from non-payers. Healthcare costs in the USA are as high as they are largely due to non-payers. When someone doesn't pay for the treatment they've received, the provider is forced to increase everyone else's costs in order to pay for it. Increased costs results in more people being unable to pay, which in turn leads to further increased costs. This effect has been seen for decades now and the result is what we currently have; unjustifiably huge prices for healthcare that in other nations is dirt cheap.

Switching to a universal healthcare system means there are no non-payers and the costs remain stable.

In the end, the increase in taxes wouldn't even come close to $1500 per car sold that it costs for GM to pay for employee healthcare.
 
I will not be voting for this terrorism either.

Let's face it: if the auto manufacturers are going out of business due to capitalism, then someone is probably going to create a very successful salvage economy by reclaiming old cars and reusable metal sources to building a national light rail infrastructure.
 
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