Glittering gems of hatred, part II

However, it may be best to articulate this with somewhat more erudition than, "Fuck off, you don't what you're talking about". I have seen that reaction often on these boards.
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Yep very true but

repeating yourself time after time to counter what you perceive as simply wrong thinking is frustrating.
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Incredibly frustrating, particularly after a few years doing it... this has been discussed many times internally, but many times exhaustion just wins at the end. There are ways to deal with it, like in the case of explaining Turn Based combat I simply link to Section8 article, but most of the times the only way is to repeat yourself over and over again, so I really can't blame many violent diatribes that sometimes happen.

We're not perfect, you are completely right, but that wasn't the point of the article anyway, just to try to understand if we are that angry (which is also exaggerated many times by many people) why we are like we are and how that can serve as a lesson to the future. The conclusion could be that we aren't those rabid meanies, at least in historical terms, but a point adding that we aren't perfect either could also be made.
 
(Disclaimer: This post contains no sarcasm. Yes, I'm serious.)

Can I get a ban on Paladin Solo for being obnoxious and rude towards me, without ANY justification whatsoever?

Really, I mean it.

Not that I am personally insulted by any of his words, but he does kinda prove my point. No fairness, no chances, just jump right in and hate, hate, hate because I appear to be taking Bethesda's side in the argument, not even stopping to think whether I really am taking Bethesda's side or not. I have no love for Bethesda, but I am trying to see things from their point of view, to be a Devil's Advocate. I may not be good at it, but at least I'm trying.

Also, had I looked into the matter with Star Trek: Legacy before I wrote my post, it would have come out very differentely. I haven't seen a decent Star Trek game come out in well over a decade, so you'll understand if I glaze over any mention of Star Trek games in the media.

sander said:
And yes, Interplay would have done this differently with a bunch of bitter fans. Did you forget about Van Buren already?
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I'm sorry, I wasn't around here that much back then, but from what I saw, they didn't tell us much about it until after it had been cancelled. It was only then that we got to see the screenshots and the design docs, right? Besides, the level of "Fallout Fan Bitterness" was considerably less than it is now.

sander said:
Also, you can't just ignore Fallout 3 as a Fallout fan-site. That's ludicrous.
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But it's not ludicrous to ignore and blackball Fallout BOS? It's crap, but it's a Fallout game. And people's predictions here of Fallout 3 are setting FO3 to supercede FO:POS in terms of crapness and desecration of the "sacred" Fallout franchise? Why not just save everyone a lot of time and just state on the front page "Fallout 3 is gonna suck! We're not gonna cover it except to say "We told you so!""? :P

Kharn: I'll admit that your article is long and takes a little time to digest, so if I'm repeating arguments that have already been dealt with in it, that's totally my fault. Reading it in the morning, going to work and then posting, thinking I have it all down pat is obviously not for me.

Montez: My example may be bad, but I chose it because it is in this very thread. It's all about location, location, location.
 
Unkillable Cat said:
(Disclaimer: This post contains no sarcasm. Yes, I'm serious.)

Can I get a ban on Paladin Solo for being obnoxious and rude towards me, without ANY justification whatsoever?

Really, I mean it.

Not that I am personally insulted by any of his words, but he does kinda prove my point. No fairness, no chances, just jump right in and hate, hate, hate because I appear to be taking Bethesda's side in the argument, not even stopping to think whether I really am taking Bethesda's side or not. I have no love for Bethesda, but I am trying to see things from their point of view, to be a Devil's Advocate. I may not be good at it, but at least I'm trying.
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No one gets a ban just for being insulting, although Paladin Solo was over the top, especially since we'd already replied to you. And no, LouisH didn't get one for being insulting either. He got one for trolling.

I'm sorry, I wasn't around here that much back then, but from what I saw, they didn't tell us much about it until after it had been cancelled. It was only then that we got to see the screenshots and the design docs, right? Besides, the level of "Fallout Fan Bitterness" was considerably less than it is now.
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You thought wrong. This also shows you didn't actually read the article this thread is about, which is pretty damned annoying.

In any case, during Van Buren there was very significant communication with the fans, including (sometimes hefty) debates on many game details. And the level of bitterness for Bethesda has only really risen over the past few months, before that *most* of the bitterness was about the same as when Van Buren was being developed. So yes, Bethesda has gotten a fair chance and will still get one, once they actually start showing *any* kind of information. Their silence alone is incriminating, though, let alone all the other things that we know from interviews and leaks.

But it's not ludicrous to ignore and blackball Fallout BOS? It's crap, but it's a Fallout game. And people's predictions here of Fallout 3 are setting FO3 to supercede FO:POS in terms of crapness and desecration of the "sacred" Fallout franchise? Why not just save everyone a lot of time and just state on the front page "Fallout 3 is gonna suck! We're not gonna cover it except to say "We told you so!""? :P
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Nope, Fallout: BOS was extensively covered, though very sarcastically.
Aside from that, that was a spin-off developed solely for consoles, not a release for PC and an official sequel. FOBOS can be discounted from the series, a Fallout 3 can't as easily.
My example may be bad, but I chose it because it is in this very thread. It's all about location, location, location.
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..
Stupid/false examples aren't any better because they just happen to be at hand, you know.
 
Can I get a ban on Paladin Solo for being obnoxious and rude towards me, without ANY justification whatsoever?
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You're attempts to state what you think are facts provoked a rough response. If you can't deal with it, don't post, or don't post nonsense.

Really, I mean it.
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Me too. Both in this post, and my previous one.

Not that I am personally insulted by any of his words, but he does kinda prove my point. No fairness, no chances, just jump right in and hate, hate, hate because I appear to be taking Bethesda's side in the argument, not even stopping to think whether I really am taking Bethesda's side or not.
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Yet more inconsistent pot calling the kettle black/I'm the victim, pity me syndrome. First, you're here arguing with me, hence, fairness, so all your poorly thought and worded complaints about justice have been debunked. Try again. Second, you defend Bethesda, and I attack it. Sides have been taken. Stop being an idiot and at the very least, keep consistent

I have no love for Bethesda, but I am trying to see things from their point of view, to be a Devil's Advocate. I may not be good at it, but at least I'm trying.
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I listened to Bethesda's side, and obviously I disagree. So I'm wondering, are you either touchy and can't handle confrontations to your sparse argument, or are you indeed one of those types that likes to victimize themselves a lot?

Also, had I looked into the matter with Star Trek: Legacy before I wrote my post, it would have come out very differentely. I haven't seen a decent Star Trek game come out in well over a decade, so you'll understand if I glaze over any mention of Star Trek games in the media.
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So just because there are shitty games out there, gives Bethesda the right to ruin the franchise even more? I imagine by the same logic, you would support someone who decides just because there are dying people in the world that they are justified in adding to the atrocities. Either that, or you'll just "glaze over" it.

I'm sorry, I wasn't around here that much back then, but from what I saw, they didn't tell us much about it until after it had been cancelled. It was only then that we got to see the screenshots and the design docs, right? Besides, the level of "Fallout Fan Bitterness" was considerably less than it is now.
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Of course it is! An alien company to the license has purchased the rights to it and HAVE STATED THEY ARE GOING TO DO WITH WHAT THEY KNOW BEST. Not to mention that even if Interplay still owned the rights and were working on it, if they pissed off the fan community, you'd hear about it. So stop with the foolish "these guys aren't fair" victimizing already.

But it's not ludicrous to ignore and blackball Fallout BOS? It's crap, but it's a Fallout game.
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Fallout BOS is not a well liked game within the community when it comes to the Fallout franchise. It has been stated by many a member of this site ALONE that though it MAY be a decent game (for SOME members) on its own (which Fallout 3 MAY be), it was shit for the franchise.

And people's predictions here of Fallout 3 are setting FO3 to supercede FO:POS in terms of crapness and desecration of the "sacred" Fallout franchise? Why not just save everyone a lot of time and just state on the front page "Fallout 3 is gonna suck! We're not gonna cover it except to say "We told you so!""? :P
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Clearly you have no cognitive abilities if that's what you think should be done. I mean, it's not like we have a right to argue for our beloved franchise. :roll:
 
Morol said:
NMA is getting slammed over here(again?)
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Yes. Again. Quartertothree doesn't like us. Gamespy-esque.

But they're as set in their dislike of us as they claim we're set in our dislike of any sequel to Fallout. Look at extarbags posts; he rags on us, flames us, but from what he writes, his argument that it was strange that we liked BIS' Van Buren, it is clear that he did not read the article.

We can't reach everyone. Some people will always claim we're rabid, don't want to admit the possibility that they're wrong and will cling to their delusions to the bitter end. Sound familiar? Yip, that's how we're usually described. Ironic, isn't it?

The fact that it spread over various sites, that Dave Gaider thought it worth his time even though he disagreed with it, which led to a nice discussion, the fact that a lot of ESF posters, including mods liked it, is already more than I had hoped I would accomplish.

Sad about QTT. Their choice.
 
Kharn said:
We can't reach everyone. Some people will always claim we're rabid, don't want to admit the possibility that they're wrong and will cling to their delusions to the bitter end. Sound familiar? Yip, that's how we're usually described. Ironic, isn't it?
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It's always like that, and it happens over and over again. It's ironic, yes, but normally we (and everyone) tend to accuse others of our own errors, in a way that it may confuse the terms of the game, in hopes that the roles are inverted, getting to accused to be the accusing (don't think i made myself clear).

In other words, the partial one often accuse the impartial one of being partial. And so on, of course. I personally, in the beginning (a long time ago), though of this community as a bitter and very unwelcoming one (part of the reason i never got to join it). But as time passed, and as I started to understand the reasons for that bitterness and "hostility", I began to realize that, were I in your shoes, i be pretty much the same. The time passed, and now I too am "bitter and unwelcoming", although now i can clearly interpret that facets as simple fatigue, boredom and, in the end, sadness...

Yes, poor Fallout, I must say, because that's what i think, but poorer still are those who can't see why Fallout's poor now... :(
 
I'm quite comfortable in this forum, even with all the hate we receive. Some of the people I respect the most frequent this forum, and its members are some of the most intelligent I've been around so far on my quest through the internets.

I wuv you guys.
 
I wuv u guys too... In a manly friendly, not big MF Mutant guy kinda way :wink:

Great job on the articles, I'm thinking maybe I'll start printing out copies of the articles and some others about Bethesda (at library for free) and hand em out to gamers at school and stuff... Maybe even some gamestops too
 
A very nice read (just like the previous) ,keep it up,keep us Fallout fans proud of being who we are....Fallout fan"boys".(being _very_ close to 40 I doubt I could call myself a boy...and since the original will celebrate its 10 year anniversary this year,I doubt most of you lot are "boys" as well)

I have waited longer for Duke Nukem Forever than I've waited for FO3,but in that case I have at least not been disappointed with any released game that has claimed to keep the feeling of Duke Nukem 3D,this has made this wait feel shorter than the wait for FO3 does.(where I've been around to see tactics and BOS develop -neither were interesting to me- and Van Burens cancellation...and the "Mystary")

About this part in the text I feel you missed something though:
"But you can make a franchise crumble in less obvious ways. Fallout is seen to have a number of inherent factors such as choice-and-consequence, SPECIAL system (and thus isometric view and turn-based combat), dark ironic humor, PA-50's Americana sci-fi, well-written NPCs and dialog, talking heads, the opportunity to pursue either a "good" or "evil path" or a combination of the two, and so on and so forth. These factors, together with a number of facets people probably never noticed, are so intertwined within the experience that removing any one would cause a domino effect which would hollow out the franchise completely."

Fallout is the first (and so far only,AFAIK) game where you can actually properly be a "jack-of-all-trades".
Sure,you can't talk your way out of all combat,but it doesn't matter since you're still decent with weapons/fists and the opposite way is of course that you can't win all fights,but you're decent enough with words to get you out of enough of them to stay alive.
You could even create as a spitting image of yourself (if you judge your own abilities justly) and still survive the game...that's just impressive.(and to think that the game is as -in computer years- ancient as -97 and managed something no follower has managed just makes it more impressive)
At least it's something I thought worthy of mentioning,since it's an integral part of the impressive possibilities of creating your own character in the game,which are unsurpassed to this day.
 
Flying The Flag

Flying The Flag




Flag?

Nothing so 'standard' here, and perhaps the nature of this grand collective may mean there will never be a "flag".

Still, wrap yourself in this metaphor Briosafreak,

thanks for appearing - there - and ''flying the flag''. Nice touch, the one line chat to ...



Kharn, the Dave Gaider response is important, whether this grand collective sees it as significant, ... well I do. And thanks for your efforts in ''livin' large'' and waving your 'standards' for all to read.

Please note:

Bernard Bumner:
... You have to decide whether this site should be a peculiar reserve only for those who assent to the true path, or a hub for the wider fanbase, including everything that brings.
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The image of the cross road. The Hub.


Post - Post Apocalypse this realm may be,
and there's still that tyranny of opportunity, - choices -, always just ahead,
and naturally the consequence of choices are, raining, sleeting, and / or snowing, in abundance.



Enough about the weather ...
too much single digit Fahrenheit, clear blue blinding brightness this day.
Looking forward to snow. And water main repairs.
Air so dry, even a fart rips a static electric ... arch .... how novel, how opportune ...

Enough about metaphorical -- biological plasmas, wind breaking fusions, A real Nobel IP no doubt,

As long as one is (ad)dressed appropriately, opportunity lurks in any metaphorical / meteorological change,







4too
 
Offfff.....

Having read the first page on that other forum, I noticed the whole NMA bashing thread was started by whine - o - mats who got banned for some reason and go to complain to other sites.Even the ones that bann themselves talk shit about us.

Calling the people that banned them idiots I can understand (no offence), but calling the whole site ignorant rude fuck-ups is overkill.That site looks very american, and for me it's very hard to beleive that most american (*spits*) fans have no respect for Fallout, as they clearly say: "Do oblivion with guns, fuck I don't care, I'll buy it couse I'm a fag."

If they made Fallout happen in my country, I'd be real proud. I have no respect for a man who has no respect for his country, and I come from a 2nd or 3rd world country.
 
Morol said:
NMA is getting slammed over here(again?)
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=33091
These kinds of long-term fans can often be a franchise's worst enemy. Especially one with as little genuine penetration as Fallout.
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Yeah. my favorite part about NMA is their absolutely bloated sense of self-importance.
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I love these kinds of threads. They always turn into a whine-fest about 'I got banned there for nothing!!!' 'you call that nothing? I got banned there for even less!!'
And when you actually look up the posters they always turn out to be pissy little trolls. Fun stuff.
 
Have you ever wondered what will happen if Beth makes the game totally awesome?

I mean, with all this negativity around it, im sure that most of you think that it will be similair to POS and in that case - not worth mentioning.

Wouldnt it be hard to bow to Bethsofts awesomeness if the game turns out in the proper manner?
 
Sander said:
And when you actually look up the posters they always turn out to be pissy little trolls. Fun stuff.
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I read the whole thing and feel those are nothing but trolls who are bombared by 'OMG SHINNY GRAPHIC=GOOD GAMe!' Ideology and never, never spent their time doing some research on something they post. It is this kinda of human become Bethesda's (lead by father of lies Pete and clueless Todd) target. :roll:
 
xu said:
Have you ever wondered what will happen if Beth makes the game totally awesome?

I mean, with all this negativity around it, im sure that most of you think that it will be similair to POS and in that case - not worth mentioning.

Wouldnt it be hard to bow to Bethsofts awesomeness if the game turns out in the proper manner?
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If the game turns out to be good (not gonna happen), I'd have no problem admitting it. I mean, that's what this is all about; getting a good game.
 
DirtyDreamDesigner said:
If the game turns out to be good (not gonna happen), I'd have no problem admitting it. I mean, that's what this is all about; getting a good game.
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CAn we still hope? :?:
 
These kinds of long-term fans can often be a franchise's worst enemy. Especially one with as little genuine penetration as Fallout.
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Oh. Now bashing the fans for fuckin' the franchise?
'...can often be...'
Never heard about it, but obviously this is happening every day - so I'm missing a few examples.
 
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