Gun Control

[Deleted member 93956]

Spergs seem to tend to this when cornered; they try and attack the Alpha, apparently to try and take on the pack as a whole through that. Happened a lot in the Dark Days of the Discord server as well.

 

[zegh8578]

Spergs seem to tend to this when cornered; they try and attack the Alpha, apparently to try and take on the pack as a whole through that. Happened a lot in the Dark Days of the Discord server as well.

No need to generalize >:I

Then again, I've always considered myself the lord commander of the casual laid back sperg.

Then again then again, marijuana probably helps a lot

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

"Alpha"
"Pack"
Listen to yourself right now. You're a human being, presumably, not a fucking pack animal. I know you leftists aren't big on individuality or accountability or anything like that, but you needn't do my work for me in terms of reducing you to idiotic, animalistic retards.

 

[Hassknecht]

Damn, you're a fine specimen of a retard.

Getting people to realize the state is a shitty fucking apparatus that needs to be minimized at the very LEAST is the backbone of libertarian thought, you mong. It's not like gunpoint conversion or anything, but you need to be able to get people to realize that the state fucking sucks at what it does 95 percent of the time and it's probably by fucking DESIGN. ANY political thought needs to be communicated effectively to others in order to be worth anything. You accept that not everyone will agree with you, but it should never discourage you from broaching the subject and pushing as hard as you can for your side of it. Again, you're a weak, milquetoast excuse for a "libertarian", you've been convinced that a CHOICE to not try and foster libertarian ideals in others is itself libertarian, when it's simply stupid, cowardly passivity.

What do you know of what I tell my friends and neighbours? I accept that not everyone will agree with me, but y'know, even though I KNOW that you're physically incapable of even understanding me, I still argue with you from time to time. That should give you an idea, maybe. Probably not, though, since you are pathological.

Your country DOES suck, and as a countryman of that country you own that to some degree. In my communications with you you have proven to be a limpdicked son of a bitch, regardless, so I stand vindicated in my opinion here - your country sucks because you suck, and your country is probably filled with people that suck as much or more than you.

Eh, it's pretty nice where I am, actually. It sucks elsewhere in Germany, especially Berlin, but besides forming a party all about rebuilding the wall or selling Berlin to Poland there's not much I can do about it. Not that I haven't actually thought about forming a party to do exactly just that, btw.

No one's making anyone use guns against each other. What the fuck is this non-argument? What the fuck is this concession?

This isn't supposed to be hard to understand. What's "making" people use violence against each other is poverty, drugs, ideology, idiocy. There's a reason why people shoot each other, not an actual person or organization, but the circumstances. Make life better for everyone and people don't have a reason to kill each other.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Does it really need fixing Hass? My bike was stolen right here in the backyard of my appartment building, an expensive one that is, but I still don't see a need to buy a gun or that everyone is coming for my life every 5 min. Yes, crime has to be fought, but if you follow the current statistics in the US, crime particularly viollent crime is at an all time low. So there is that. I would say, no they where not 'rightfully' afraid, they where following irational fear, but that is just a guess. We would have to look at the evolution of crime in this specific area and see how it developed over time and how big the gated community was to really say if it was based on rational fear. If for example the crime rate droped, then I do not see why there would be a need for an armed neighbourhood watch for example or people beeing in such panick that they think they need one. Munich is a relatively big town, and we had a crazy person runing around killing 9 people with an illegal fire arm not long ago. But for me living here, that day was like every other day and I only heard about it from the news and even after it was over, nothing changed for me. The chance of ever experiencing such an event is comparable to winning the lottery or getting hit by lighting while pooping on the toilet of an airplane, so why the hell should I get now a panick attack from it demanding more controlls, more guns or what ever about something that you can't even avoid.

Yes saying 'fear' is simplyfing it, but I think that fear is one of the main issues here and that we should try to look from where it is coming and how to solve it .


I don't know, maybe they should finally legalize Marijuana, so everyone can just chill the fuck out.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

This isn't supposed to be hard to understand. What's "making" people use violence against each other is poverty, drugs, ideology, idiocy. There's a reason why people shoot each other, not an actual person or organization, but the circumstances. Make life better for everyone and people don't have a reason to kill each other.

You unbelievable idiot. I grew up poor in an assortment of abusive households that, by your logic, would have given me every REASON to shoot people, and I haven't and don't plan to until someone decides to put my life in threat. What the fuck is this shit? You think poor people, druggies, etc are incapable of making decent choices? You think the poor dears just can't help but be violent criminals? Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

You see, this is how I know you're an irredeemable piece of shit, Hass.

 

[Hassknecht]

You unbelievable idiot. I grew up poor in an assortment of abusive households that, by your logic, would have given me every REASON to shoot people, and I haven't and don't plan to until someone decides to put my life in threat. What the fuck is this shit? You think poor people, druggies, etc are incapable of making decent choices? You think the poor dears just can't help but be violent criminals? Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

You see, this is how I know you're an irredeemable piece of shit, Hass.

Every person is different. A surprisingly large amount of behaviour and personality are likely to be genetic, thus some people turning violent with a certain upbringing while others with a similar upbringing don't, and others with a good upbringing also turn violent. But generally I'd think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that people with intact families and stable lifes have less incentive to commit crime, right? Some can climb out of a shithole upbringing, others can't do it. Not everyone thinks and acts in the same way.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Every person is different. A surprisingly large amount of behaviour and personality are likely to be genetic, thus some people turning violent with a certain upbringing while others with a similar upbringing don't, and others with a good upbringing also turn violent. But generally I'd think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that people with intact families and stable lifes have less incentive to commit crime, right? Some can climb out of a shithole upbringing, others can't do it. Not everyone thinks and acts in the same way.

There's no fucking reason I can do it and someone else can't. I'm not going to get too exposition-y here but suffice it to say that if I can claw my way back from the edge of the abyss, MOST PEOPLE CAN. Don't fucking patronize me, you piece of garbage.

 

[Hassknecht]

There's no fucking reason I can do it and someone else can't. I'm not going to get too exposition-y here but suffice it to say that if I can claw my way back from the edge of the abyss, MOST PEOPLE CAN. Don't fucking patronize me, you piece of garbage.

Yeah, this is going to go nowhere because you're physically incapable of understanding that not everyone thinks like you. See, just like you being incapable of thinking in a certain direction, so are others incapable of doing so. Good for you that you made it, and this is not meant in a patronizing way at all, and I agree that most people could potentially do the same (in terms of necessary intelligence and hand/eye coordination), but the thing is that the necessary thoughts really just don't occur with many in that situation.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Yeah, this is going to go nowhere because you're physically incapable of understanding that not everyone thinks like you. See, just like you being incapable of thinking in a certain direction, so are others incapable of doing so. Good for you that you made it, and this is not meant in a patronizing way at all, and I agree that most people could potentially do the same (in terms of necessary intelligence and hand/eye coordination), but the thing is that the necessary thoughts really just don't occur with many in that situation.

We choose to think about certain things. That's the thing. We all have choices. We are not ultimately doomed by our genetics, we are not ultimately doomed by upbringing or environment.

(necessary intelligence)

I would blow you out of the fucking water like your little boat had hit a nuclear torpedo, Hass, and I think we both know that. It's not that I'm brilliant, because I'm not, but you're just that slug-brained mediocre

regardless, CHOICES are what make us what we are. I chose not to be a drug-slinging gun-crime-committing degenerate piece of shit despite every environmental, genetic, etc. factor trying to steer me there.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yes, your current display of intelligence is staggering.
So where are your choices formed? How do you choose to think certain things? What is you? Where is it?

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Yes, your current display of intelligence is staggering.

It's good that you recognize your betters.

So where are your choices formed? How do you choose to think certain things? What is you? Where is it?

Probably somewhere in my brain. Everyone has one. It clearly doesn't take extremely high function to avoid making reprehensible choices, because, I mean, you've managed to avoid being a drug-addled sexual predator (or so I assume, I might be wrong).

 

[Hassknecht]

It's good that you recognize your betters.



Probably somewhere in my brain. Everyone has one. It clearly doesn't take extremely high function to avoid making reprehensible choices, because, I mean, you've managed to avoid being a drug-addled sexual predator (or so I assume, I might be wrong).

Ok, so you agree that the consciousness resides in the brain. Good.
How do you think is the consciousness formed in the brain? What is there in the brain that can "carry" it?

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Ok, so you agree that the consciousness resides in the brain. Good.
How do you think is the consciousness formed in the brain? What is there in the brain that can "carry" it?

electrical signals, chemicals. Things everyone has, unless they're fucking dead. Some people have them in different amounts in different locations, but barring absolute and total dysfunction leading to a state where no one would consider the person in question capable of so much as bathing themselves they're there. There are medications and treatments to remedy lesser-to-middling dysfunction of these signals and chemicals.

People have gotten by with lesser-to-middling dysfunction with little to no treatment for quite some time, and without killing masses of people. If you're going to argue that mentally ill people are somehow all risks to society, I'm going to stop you right there and tell you to kill yourself. They kill themselves at a far greater rate than they kill other people, frankly, and I would argue that the number of homicides (gun or no) committed by mentally ill people is fucking DWARFED by the number committed by fully functional people. So you can stop right fucking there.

 

[Hassknecht]

electrical signals, chemicals. Things everyone has, unless they're fucking dead. Some people have them in different amounts in different locations, but barring absolute and total dysfunction leading to a state where no one would consider the person in question capable of so much as bathing themselves they're there. There are medications and treatments to remedy lesser-to-middling dysfunction of these signals and chemicals.

Close enough.
Now do you agree on the principle of cause and effect? Causality, everything happening for a reason?

 

[zegh8578]

Coming to mind right now is that scene at the end of Schindler's List, where someone offers their gold tooth so that it can be made into a ring. Someone should make such a ring, engrave it, and give it to Hass. This is a commendable effort to the point of moving me to tears.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Close enough.
Now do you agree on the principle of cause and effect? Causality, everything happening for a reason?

The reason is sometimes stupid and unfounded in anything approximating ACTUAL reason per se, and sometimes the chain of events leading to an event is so obscured and convoluted that it becomes difficult to make sense of the end result (leading to things like religious explanations for strange events and so on), but overall, yes, things happen for reasons. Nothing happens for NO reason.

 

[MutantScalper]

Coming to mind right now is that scene at the end of Schindler's List, where someone offers their gold tooth so that it can be made into a ring. Someone should make such a ring, engrave it, and give it to Hass. This is a commendable effort to the point of moving me to tears.

Well Sander would have banned Virgil ages ago without blinking.

Why did, for example, Von Drunky get banned, though? And Virgil gets to spew crap despite breaking pretty much all the rules?

 

[Hassknecht]

The reason is sometimes stupid and unfounded in anything approximating ACTUAL reason per se, and sometimes the chain of events leading to an event is so obscured and convoluted that it becomes difficult to make sense of the end result (leading to things like religious explanations for strange events and so on), but overall, yes, things happen for reasons. Nothing happens for NO reason.

Let's just keep it a basic physical level. Everything there happens for a reason, even in the weird world of quantum mechanics with its probabilities and so on. The neurons and cells in the brain are larger than the relevant quantum mechanical scales, and even if they weren't we could still call on Ehrenfest's Theorem and realize that the classical approximation is fine.
So the consciousness is formed by the momentary state of the all the chemical and electrical potentials in the brain, right? It is influenced by externals like the sensory input from the body via the nerves, by nutrition, and even shit like cosmic radiation killing a cell every once in a while.
Given the principle of causality, every state of the consciousness is a direct temporal evolution of all previous state under the influence of external factors.
What does that mean?
Every thought is a result of every previous thought influenced by the environment. The fundamental result here is that free will is a lie, an illusion, and yes, the game was rigged from the start.
There is no you that chooses to think, you are a product of your past and your environment and your fixed physical properties. So while you, Cliffy, were able to claw your way back from the abyss, the situation is not necessarily the same for someone else in your position. Other people's brains are different because they evolved differently, and their thoughts are different than yours. You avoided becoming a drug-addled predator. Others didn't.(/edit: To clarify: COULDN'T. Others COULDN'T avoid it because, this is important, FREE WILL IS AN ILLUSION. Life is predetermined)
I hope this made it clear.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

We are not preprogrammed robots doomed to one fate or another. We have choices and free will. Sometimes factors place limits on those, but they are there. Don't give me that fatalistic "free will is a lie" horseshit. We are constantly bombarded with prompts to make choices, and even IF we were heavily predisposed towards Choice A over Choice B sometimes we decide that Choice A is boring, or we get curious about Choice B, or so on. If we were preprogrammed, we would be predictable, and if there's anything I've fucking learned about people it's that they WILL surprise you, sometimes when you least expect it. If we were predictable, psychology would be a hard science with experiment results that can be reliably replicated. Lo and behold, psychology is NOT a hard science and doesn't look like it will become one any time in the near future.

You ALWAYS have the choice to not lie, steal or kill. You ALWAYS have the choice to seek help when you're in trouble. You're looping right back around to "the poor dears can't help it", and you're fucking wrong. To imply that you know that we are preprogrammed a certain way and that thus our choices are an illusion is so utterly arrogant as to beggar belief. Clearly we need to put you in charge of the APA, since you've got it figured out, asshole.