yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
You're really calling Marc Thiessen unbiased?
Gun Control
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
GonZo_626
Well Shit!
I don't think that you are unbiased, but yes on a whole I think the post would not post fully biased crap. Did you watch his address, did you watch the democrat reply, go watch them and form your own opinion. I did and I agree Trump was rather presidential for once and calling for compromise. It is true that up until Trump the Dems were all for better border security. And really I wish you Americans would secure the northern border as well because your shit is now flowing into Canada. Build a wall on the Canadian border and we would be happy to not deal with the illegal border crossers.
Hell you can even keep Bieber we don't want him back either.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Facetiousness my dear boy. This entire scenario is dripping with Orange Man Bad or a complete misunderstanding on how executive powers work. I guess it is both and it congealed and coalesced into the form known as Crni Vuk. SOE is even that big of a deal, Obama had like over 10 of them. you're looking for Martial Law since it suspends habeas corpus and all that jazz.
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Then how does it work?
Here is the Adress:
Most of what he says here is missinformed garbage meant to scare people from a problem, that is miniscule compard to all the real issues that hit the US right now, of which I would say the most serious is the disparity in wealth and income.
I am curious about this 'compromise'. What does he want? As far as I can tell, Trump wants his border wall and security, he told everyone mexico would pay for, which has been repeatedly proven to be rather ineffective - see illegal immigration in the US, where they usually come from and how it's on a decline, and then people give the blame to the Dems? I am not sure if I get this.
Here is the Adress:
Most of what he says here is missinformed garbage meant to scare people from a problem, that is miniscule compard to all the real issues that hit the US right now, of which I would say the most serious is the disparity in wealth and income.
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yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
The Post is unbiased in their reporting. However, I'm going to take the opinion of a former Fox pundit who was a torture advocate during the Obama admin with a grain of salt. The facts are that Trump's address was met with ridicule before being promptly forgotten.
During his 8 minute address, Trump lied 11 times. That's pretty bad, even for him.
Dems are still for better border security, they just aren't for Trump's stupid vanity project, and they're for it even less when he tries to take the nation hostage.
We'll take Bieber off your hands if we can keep Ryan Reynolds too.
Exactly, border security is not the same as a border wall and the dems are not against better border security. It always baffles me how anyone with a clear mind could even imagine that a border wall is going to protect the US. Leave alone of the moral, ethic and also legal issues of building one - the government would have to buy a hell of a lot of land from citizens and guess what will happen if they don't want to sell their land?
GonZo_626
Well Shit!
So illegal's don't have a hard trip up through Mexico, pretty sure I can find amply evidence that they do, voting records are online go look at schumers, illegals didn't kill those people? Illegals are not criminals, by the pure act of crossing the border illegally they have become criminals usually coming on false pretenses that entry into the states is easy (proof of this one in an illegals words who is now headed legal into Canada https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...get-canadian-visas/ar-BBS0gl5?ocid=spartanntp
In her application, Sanchez was honest about her undocumented status, explaining she had crossed into the U.S. from Mexico at the age of 17, making the dangerous journey across the Rio Grande under a false belief she could eventually normalize her status in the United States.
But living undocumented in the U.S. was instead a lifelong hardship.
"Just the frustration and the nightmares and the inability to even be able to get a regular driver's license — my driver's license was a different colour and I couldn't even buy liquor with it because it said in big letters 'Not valid' ... I spent half of my life not being able to move forward.")
Lets look from the from outside the US perspective:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/news...uted-border-crisis/ar-BBS12yc?ocid=spartanntp
Some of his claims are true some false (who really believes mexico is going to pay for the wall?) as for weather walls work, undecided, but then it seems these people love to cross illegally as they are coming to Canada now the same way and due to this it is costing us in Canada millions to "help" these people most of which (I think the number is 80%) we will send back to there countries of origin after many appeals (stupid Canadian system).
The simple fact is Trump just like most people are not against immigration but against the illegal entry into the country, he even married an immigrant. I know Europeans don't care so much for border security (although that seems to be changing) but some people like to maintain there countries borders.
So it is of no real benefit for these people to enter illegally. If they have real refugee claims they should enter properly. And no I don't believe economic conditions should make you eligible for refugee status (Canadians tend to agree on this).
I also tend to love Clintons speech on illegal immigration back in 1993.
https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal93-844-25162-1104265
At a White House news conference July 27, President Clinton outlined his new policy to prevent illegal immigration. Following is the text of the news conference, as provided by the Federal News Service:
PRESIDENT CLINTON: Several weeks ago I asked the vice president to work with our departments and agencies to examine what more might be done about the problems along our borders. I was especially concerned about the growing problems of alien smuggling and international terrorists hiding behind immigrant status, as well as the continuing flow of illegal immigrants across American borders. Following several weeks of intense efforts, including his personal involvement in resolving the recent alien smuggling incident with Mexico, the vice president presented me with a report spelling out what we might do.
I have reviewed that report and approved it. We have spoken to members of Congress, including those who are here today and others.
I want to particularly acknowledge Sen. [Edward M.] Kennedy [D-Mass.], Sen. [Alan K.] Simpson [R-Wyo.], Congressmen [Jack] Brooks [D-Texas] and [Romano L.] Mazzoli [D-Ky.] for all their work on this issue over many, many years.
We are also in debt to Sens. [Dianne] Feinstein and [Barbara] Boxer [Democrats of California] for their aggressive work in trying to deal with this growing problem, especially in the state of California, and I want to state publicly how much I appreciate the work the [Congressional] Hispanic Caucus has done to ensure that a balanced approach is adopted in dealing with this issue.
The simple fact is that we must not and we will not surrender our borders to those who wish to exploit our history of compassion and justice. We cannot tolerate those who traffic in human cargo, nor can we allow our people to be endangered by those who would enter our country to terrorize Americans. But the solution to the problem of illegal immigration is not simply to close our borders.
The solution is to welcome legal immigrants and legal, legitimate refugees and to turn away those who do not obey the laws. We must say no to illegal immigration so we can continue to say yes to legal immigration.
Today, we send a strong and clear message. We will make it tougher for illegal aliens to get into our country. We will treat organizing a crime syndicate to smuggle aliens as a serious crime. And we will increase the number of border patrol, equipping and training them to be first-class law enforcement officers.
These initiatives, for which I am asking the Congress for an additional $172.5 million in 1994, are an important step in regaining control over our borders and respect for our laws. When I made a commitment to combat this problem on June the 18th, I announced a plan of action. This is the next step in fulfilling that commitment.
Some will worry that our action today sends the wrong message, that this means we are against all immigration. That [it] is akin to America closing its doors. But nothing could be further from the truth. Let me be clear. Our nation has always been a safe haven for refugees and always been the world's greatest melting pot. What we announce today will not make it tougher for the immigrant who comes to this country legally, lives by our laws, gets a job and pursues the American dream.
This administration will promote family unification. We will reach out to those who have the skills we need to make our nation stronger. And we will welcome new citizens to our national family with honor and with dignity. But to treat terrorists and smugglers as immigrants dishonors the tradition of the immigrants who have made our nation great, and it unfairly taints the millions of immigrants who live here honorably and are a vital part of every segment of our society.
Today's initiatives are about stopping crime, toughening the penalties for the criminals and giving our law enforcement people the tools they need to do their job.
I'm also taking steps today to address the long-term challenges of reforming our immigration policy. I intend to appoint a new chair to the congressionally mandated Commission on Immigration Reform and to ask the Congress to expand the commission to include senior administration officials. I'm also asking our attorney general, Janet Reno, and the INS [Immigration and Naturalization Service] commissioner-designate, Doris [M.] Meissner, to make sure the INS is as professional and as effectively managed as it can be. Under their leadership, I have no doubt that it will be. With these efforts, I hope that we can begin a broad-based national discussion on this important issue and move towards significant resolution of the problems that plague all Americans.
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yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
Also, walls need people to guard them in order to be effective. Without hundreds of thousands of people guarding the border, a wall that size could only ever be for show, even if a significant number of people were coming in on foot.
GonZo_626
Well Shit!
I believe that is where the electronic monitoring would come in.... you know what the Dems want.....
That's not the point. The question is how much attention, resources and time you want to spend on something like illegal immigration before it actually becomes pointless. If there would be some easy way to monitor a border of more than 1000 miles, we would already have it, considering how 'popular' it is to use immigration not only as a scape goat for almost everything but also to really get people angry. It's been used and missused for all kinds of populism in the last no clue, since for ever really.
No one here said illegal immigration doesn't happen. No one here said illegal immigrants can't be criminals. No one here said the US has no right to protect them self from illegal immigration. What ever if illegal immigration, is a criminal offense in and by itself, is in my opinion debatable. The modern definition of it, wasn't always used historically in that manner. When it comes to border crossings, legal and illegal immigration the big issue here is that there are a hell of a lot of emotions playing a role here and a lot of missinformations floating around, where people confuse asylumseekers and refugees for migrants for example.
And yes, Trump is against imigration, at least sometimes, when it helps him to reach out to his core fanbase. He has flipp floped on that issue a few times. But you can't look at his unconstitutional babbling about the so called 'anchor-babies' and tell me the guy is 'pro-immigration'. Please. Also the increasing issues Trump is runing into because judges time and time again tell his administration that what they are trying to do, is simply not lawfull is staggering. I quote : Trump also wants to restrict asylum applicants to designated ports of entry. A federal district judge ruled against the order because it also allows the administration to close the entire border to asylum seekers.
Trump or at least his policies, are definetly not pro-migration. What ever if migration is always good or bad, is a whole different point though.
Anyway, the original question was if people here would take their rifles and go against the government if Trump declared national emergency to build his wall.
Well, I do but to be fair as the child of migrants that camein to Germany to improve their economic conditions makes me slightly 'biased' I guess. In Serbia I most likely would be living in pretty poor conditions, maybe even already dead if I consider how many psychological issues I had to deal with in the past. But that's a whole different debate.
GonZo_626
Well Shit!
Your right keeping your eye on 1000 miles of open border is hard, but in this day and age it is possible (seems like 5 bil is only a good start), Trump is not against immigration just against open immigration of letting anyone in, this is why he talked up Canada's system before we elected a Turd (points based, we let immigrants in if they are useful and not a drain, that is immigration). Anchor babies have become a huge problem in both the US and Canada and we are talking about banning the practice here as well (both the left and the right are open to it in Canada). At least from Canada's perspective it is how many Chinese try to immigrate here, they hide the fact they are 8 months pregnant come here give birth to an automatic citizen so that there child has a chance to move to Canada for school at 18 without paying the increased costs of foreign students, or use the family system that allows Canadian citizens to sponsor members of there own families and skip past the points based immigration. Anchor babies are not just a US problem.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ater-than-official-estimates-study-shows.html
As for being a Serbian immigrant I thought most left more due to the whole Serb-Croat conflict (work with a couple a Canadians who ended up there to no fond memories of the time served there).
As far as Trump with the national emergency, if all he does is the wall then no most Americans would not want to do anything as most 2nd amendment supporters would support him for doing it, Democracy kinda even without Liberty.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
What exactly is in your "stockpile of small arms"?
So much symbolism. Uzi = Israel, etc.
yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
Absolutely nothing, since I don't own a gun and was being sarcastic.
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
Hypothetically, Trump wouldn't be dumb enough to sabotage his run for 2020 by antagonizing his own voter-base. He shut up about Obama care real fast when his constituents realized how reliant they were on it.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Maybe 'lib snowflakes' should take a page out that guys play book who shot up that GOP baseball game and almost iced Steve Scalise.
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
I'm not surprised that you'd say that after virtue signaling on the smoldering remains of 80 some dead people from the California Camp Fire.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
wat
GonZo_626
Well Shit!
I thought you got banned from this discussion? Oh well you don't seem to remember your own posts from a couple of months ago dancing around all happy about Trump and people's deaths during the fires.
The wave of Migrants that arrived here during the 60s and 70s from Turkey and the Balkan, have been economic migrants - for the most part. That was during a time when the German government well welcomed almost everyone for a relatively short period, as they desperately needed people working in their production. My father told me how his first couple of years was spend in some kind of asylum seekers hostel designated for workers and the like. A lot of the people that came here, also staid here, they either got their families in later or started families and created an existance for them self. Hence why I see a lot of missinformations when people talk about 'migrants' as drain on society or this huge issue. Just to make this clear, I am not saying migration doesn't come with issues, but it's not this kind of invasion some people talk about or the downfall of 'western civlisation'. Migration and waves of migrations, for what ever reason, are a part of almost any history, be it the US or Germany. Waves of Irish, Italian and German migrants with their whole own culture are now a permanent and inherent part of the United States. In Germany we had almost 1 Million polish Migrants coming to Germany some 150-200 years ago, where they used to work in Germanies growing coal and steel industry. Most of them staid, and a lot of people don't realize that they have polish heritage. When you look at it today, migrants are not as expensive as citizens, that are born and grew up in the country. One of the largest costs for a society, is the education the time someone spends in a school or training for his job where he basically pays no taxes and does nothing productive in economic terms. That's how it was with many migrants in Germany in the past at least.
GonZo_626
Well Shit!
Ok, so that to me is different from an "economic refugee", to me you are talking about regular immigration here. You want to move to a country that has better economic conditions so you apply to become a citizen, or the country in question opens a program for skilled workers like Canadas temporary workers program that allowed people to apply for jobs and would be allowed into the country for 18 months and at the end be allowed to apply for regular citizenship. These are good things and I would never argue that. Immigration is great especially in the western world with our declining birth rates. I am talking about somebody like the caravan that Trump was going on about. These people had no applicable skills needed, and just decided to show up hoping to be let in because they heard they would have a great life in the US through some sort of misinformation. Now they apply to be "refugees" even when they have no threat for there life, and had fine jobs at home that allowed them to live a decent enough life (farmers and such). Some have decided to work there way through the system which to me is fine, if slow. Part of Trumps 5 billion is money for new immigration judges and staff to review and speed up these applications. Now the asshats who think that storming the border or hoping the fence and circumventing the system, who think they don't need to follow the basic laws to let them into the country, these are the problem. We have thousands of Haitians just show up and cross illegally into Canada because they think they will be let in and be allowed to stay (we are sending a good portion of them home) but in the meanwhile we are paying for them to live as they are not able to find jobs due to no relevant skills that are needed and just sit on welfare for years as they appeal decisions and think they have a "right " to be allowed in. If we allowed everyone who thinks they should be allowed in we could never support these people, nor is there the jobs needed to be filled. A country can only handle so much at one time, we have the space, but not the ability to support everyone until they can get the relevant skills to be able to stay.