Gun Control

Dr Fallout said:
You've only addressed the problem in Mexico. Which is OBVIOUSLY like the US, France, Germany and UK.
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Ok since you lack basic reading comprehension I'll quote it for you.
Vergil said:
The majority of gun related crimes (especially homicide) is black on black (and sometimes black on white) violence in majority black areas. A lot of the time involving gang related activity. So it's not an epidemic of random people walking around and lighting up schools all the time. It's generally blacks shooting other blacks. I'm going to get crucified here but that's what the stats show. Don't shoot the messenger.
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/soci.../2015/12/15-guns-race-different-worlds-reeves
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420565/charleston-shooting-obama-race-crime
http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
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The majority of these mass shootings (which are defined as a shooting that results in 3+ deaths) are related to violence in a very specific place among a specific group of people. Whether that's due to gang violence, poverty, oppression etc I'm not here to argue but the point is the issue doesn't lie in guns but in the demographics of who owns those guns. The lions share of these shootings can be attributed to one specific group, not the whole of gun owners.
 
Vergil said:
Ok since you lack basic reading comprehension I'll quote it for you.

The majority of these mass shootings (which are defined as a shooting that results in 3+ deaths) are related to violence in a very specific place among a specific group of people. Whether that's due to gang violence, poverty, oppression etc I'm not here to argue but the point is the issue doesn't lie in guns but in the demographics of who owns those guns.
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I'm sorry but how does this prove that we shouldn't ban guns, when countries that have done so have a lot less problems from mass shootings? I get what you're saying, that we shouldn't give guns to certain people but what evidence do you have to show that this is better then simple banning guns. I remember a guy talking how banning guns won't stop criminals from getting guns... hmm how is this different?
 
Vergil said:
Because making the entire population give up some of their rights because of a tiny part of the population is stupid.

Mexico, France, and Germany beg to differ.
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Why do you even need guns in the first place? It's a fucking privilege, not a right. Actually it should be, because there's no need for guns.

Mexico would, but France and Germany have a LOT less gun shootings in comparison to the US.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Why do you even need guns in the first place? It's a fucking privilege, not a right. Actually it should be, because there's no need for guns.

Mexico would, but France and Germany have a LOT less gun shootings in comparison to the US.
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Bill of Rights , so no not a privilege
 
Dr Fallout said:
Yay, if the Founding Fathers said baby sacrifice was a right then it MUST be so!
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strawman.jpg

Dr Fallout said:
But seriously, the works of a couple of men centuries ago who wrote them during a war is obviously legitimate today.
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You're really showing your ignorance right now.
 
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Vergil said:
strawman.jpg


You're really showing your ignorance right now.
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Ugh strawmen. The best way to handwave anything you don't like.

How so? Any way, it doesn't matter. So many Americans have broken the Second Amendment by the definition that was written by the Founding Fathers.

'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Because having a gun means you're part of a well regulated Militia, that brings security (ignore the mass shootings) to a free state.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Ugh strawmen. The best way to handwave anything you don't like.
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That's literally what you were doing. Your example about us being ok with whatever the Founding Fathers said and then including a retarded example like baby sacrifice is a strawman.
Dr Fallout said:
How so?
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Because the Bill of Rights was written in like 1791 years after the Revolutionary War. And you just handwaved the Constitution as "something a bunch of old men wrote" as if it's totally not the fucking foundation of the country.
 
Vergil said:
That's literally what you were doing. Your example about us being ok with whatever the Founding Fathers said and then including a retarded example like baby sacrifice is a strawman.

Because the Bill of Rights was written in like 1791 years after the Revolutionary War. And you just handwaved the Constitution as "something a bunch of old men wrote" as if it's totally not the fucking foundation of the country.
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You're right, I should have mentioned slavery instead.

Let's ignore the Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776, Virginia Declaration of Rights of 1776 and various other state constitutions and declarations. The Bill of Rights as we know it nowadays has been changed multiple times throughout history, so you're referring to a single document which is no longer fully valid (thirteenth amendment and so on).
 
Dr Fallout said:
You're right, I should have mentioned slavery instead.
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....which the Founding Fathers intentionally didn't mention when writing the Bill of Rights. You should really take some time and actually learn about things before talking about them.
Dr Fallout said:
The Bill of Rights as we know it nowadays has been changed multiple times throughout history, so you're referring to a single document which is no longer fully valid (thirteenth amendment and so on).
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Again, adding amendments doesn't fucking invalidate the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights are just the original amendments and they themselves haven't been fucking changed at all. You're obviously way out of your depth here because now you're just talking total shit.
 
Vergil said:
....which the Founding Fathers intentionally didn't mention when writing the Bill of Rights. You should really take some time and actually learn about things before talking about them.

Again, adding amendments doesn't fucking invalidate the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights are just the original amendments and they themselves haven't been fucking changed at all. You're obviously way out of your depth here because now you're just talking total shit.
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Exactly, they discussed things like organized militias, religious rights but they didn't bother to mention slavery? They discussed the freedom of man but they didn't mention the freedom of black slaves? Do you mind explaining that?

Thirteenth Amendment never happened! All ratifications and added amendments up to the 27th Amendment never happened!
 
Dr Fallout said:
Exactly, they discussed things like organized militias, religious rights but they didn't bother to mention slavery? They discussed the freedom of man but they didn't mention the freedom of black slaves? Do you mind explaining that?
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Do you mind explaining the relevancy to the discussion? Is this a thread about slavery?
Dr Fallout said:
Thirteenth Amendment never happened! All ratifications and added amendments up to the 27th Amendment never happened!
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What on Earth are you going on about? I never said anything like this. Are you ok? Did you fucking hit your head on something? The Bill of Rights doesn't mention slavery so what the fuck does the 13th Amendment have to do with anything? The only time an Amendment was overruled/Changed was when they got rid of prohibition. I'm not going to keep responding to this shit until you actually do some research and quit talking out of your ass.
 
Vergil said:
Do you mind explaining the relevancy to the discussion? Is this a thread about slavery?

What on Earth are you going on about? I never said anything like this. Are you ok? Did you fucking hit your head on something? The Bill of Rights doesn't mention slavery so what the fuck does the 13th Amendment have to do with anything? The only time an Amendment was overruled/Changed was when they got rid of prohibition. I'm not going to keep responding to this shit until you actually do some research and quit talking out of your ass.
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Do you mind not handwaving away the question because you have no answer for it?

You know, you're right. I'm way out of my depth here. I was discussing how countries that have banned guns don't get as much mass shootings as countries that haven't, meaning your point that criminals will get guns anyway is true but that won't matter because there'll be much less shootings and then it got into rights...
 
Vergil said:
The majority of gun related crimes (especially homicide) is black on black (and sometimes black on white) violence in majority black areas. A lot of the time involving gang related activity. So it's not an epidemic of random people walking around and lighting up schools all the time. It's generally blacks shooting other blacks.
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And you don't consider black Americans to be...Americans. Ok I get it.

Antiwarprofallout said:
Yes it does, one person dead and two who got grazed by bullets isn't a mass shooting.
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What is it then? "A really nice shooting"?

“You can find Kalashnikovs for sale near the train station in Brussels,” acknowledged a Brussels-based European Union official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record. “They’re available even to very average criminals.”

And it is still that easy to buy guns in Europe.
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So let's just flood Europe with guns and get rid of all gun laws?

Vergil said:
It's not people who hang around gun clubs who are shooting people.
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Plenty of shootings, accidental manslaughters, etc. that have happened in or near gun clubs. Just recently a father shot his kid at the shooting range trying to reach a hot shell that flew in his shirt. In US, they gave a little girl a full auto UZI and had her shoot it full auto, the kid shot the instructor in the head. We had a mass shooting at a gun club over here. etc.
 
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Vergil said:
If you can point me to where I said this I'll paypal you 50 bucks.
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Vergil never said that, but he didn't really respond to my point that countries which ban guns usually have less mass shootings.
He just said that certain people (certain groups?) shouldn't be sold guns but the problem is that comes with it's own problems and doesn't stop from these people from getting guns illegally.
 
Vergil said:
If you can point me to where I said this I'll paypal you 50 bucks.
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Oh can I do the same when I deal with the social ills of Finland? "Oh that isn't a Finnish problem because only Swedish speaking Finns (a minority) are guilty of it"? Is that really how you think? I'm beginning to understand why US is such a crappy place.
 
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