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TorontoReign
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Hide the guns.
Gun Control
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
Why are you so afraid of explaining your position regarding black people and crime?
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Quote me, will you? Or countinue making up your crazy non-straw man accusation and theories on the fly and don't bother me with your stupid trolling, as you wish.
The conversation between me and The GM started about black people, before you started to come in and give your comment, so my guess is that you also talked about black people. Yes? No? Anyway ...
(...)
What do you mean by this? How did you form that opinion? And what has this to do with stricter gun laws since we're talking about gun viollence in general, which is also committed by 'white' guys and societies with 'homogenous' cultural backgrounds.
I just don't know what your point is.
Then why ... did you ... adress me with your comment? Explain how this is a straw man ...
Why is neither you nor GM explaining your motivations and what you're trying to say here.
Why is neither you nor GM explaining your motivations and what you're trying to say here.
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Because seeing how you're hopelessly lost rips my heart apart!
TheGM
The voice of reason
Motivations? What motivations? For Pete's sake you called the FBI saying that %52 of all murders committed in the US are by Black people despite only being %13 of population an opinion.
The real question, sir, Is what is your motivation for this subterfuge?
Yes thx captain obvious, I can read numbers just as good as you or anyone else can. But what are you, like YOU PERSONALY thinking about it, what's your MOTIVATION by posting them here, what are you trying to say with it? A statistic is only as good like the interpretation of it, so what is your interpretation? If I told you that according to a study more than 75% of insects in Germany have dissapeared since the 1980s, is that also telling you what I think about it or what? That's merely posting a number, not what I think about it, or what the possible cause could be.
I was talking about gun viollence in general and american gun culture in comparison with Germany and you said, I quote: "How many black people do you have in Germany or Australia?" - TheGM, as like there would be some kind of conection.
What are you trying to say here? That Germany has less deaths by gun viollence because we don't have (many) black people here? Which is at least for Munich not correct. Is that what you're trying to insinuate? Is that your very own professional analysis of the FBI statistics? Less black people, means less gun viollence? And if that is your opinion, how did you form that opinion?
I am so 'obtuse' here, because I have no fucking clue what you're trying to achieve by posting those numbers or mentioning black people while we talk about gun viollence.
And some clarification would be simply very welcome.
I was talking about gun viollence in general and american gun culture in comparison with Germany and you said, I quote: "How many black people do you have in Germany or Australia?" - TheGM, as like there would be some kind of conection.
What are you trying to say here? That Germany has less deaths by gun viollence because we don't have (many) black people here? Which is at least for Munich not correct. Is that what you're trying to insinuate? Is that your very own professional analysis of the FBI statistics? Less black people, means less gun viollence? And if that is your opinion, how did you form that opinion?
I am so 'obtuse' here, because I have no fucking clue what you're trying to achieve by posting those numbers or mentioning black people while we talk about gun viollence.
And some clarification would be simply very welcome.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Essentially yes.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Hide the nazis.
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
"We gotta have guns because we're racist! Deerp!" 
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
What's racist on a fact that cultural differences created a lot of tension, including wars, in societies all around the globe?
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Slovakia isn't winning ice hockey world championships anymore since Miroslav Satan retired, that's what you ought to be worried about.
You're the "I am not a racist but (insert racist stuff here)" kind of guy. I am not saying that YOU are a racist in the sense of a white supremacy, but you displayed a number of opinions in other topics that simply makes you a discriminatory person. You're reluctance against muslims, roma and sinty in particular is hardly a secret. And then you come up with "Buuuuuuut I am having Roma friends, I cantz be discriminatory! :I". I loved the argument, where you said we in Germany would be very different if we had as many Roma like your nation does.
You're often taking factual points - like a statistic or tensions in diverse regions -, and mix it with racist overtones narowing it down to ethnicity and culture placing an emphasis on that while waving of examples that don't fitt your narrative. Just as how you metioned 'homogenous culture thing' in this topic, for what ever reason despite the fact that the initial dispute between me and GM started with him mentionning BLACK PEOPLE as a difference between Germany, Australia and the US in relation to gun viollence, as like the reason Germany experiences less gun viollence, is because we don't have black people - which is also wrong.
Like as nations which are not very diverse don't start wars or never see conflicts (see WW1 and WW2 as example), besides there are no 'true' homogenous societies to begin with, as almost every nation like Germany, Britain, France etc. always experienced periods of cultural and ethnic exchange and displays a wide variety of different ethnicites even if they share the same skin colour. Before people became so afraid of African immigrants for example, we started to create fear between each other in Europe, and similar rhetorics which lead to wars between France and Germany in the past for example, is seen today. Hell, you will find instances where people hate French, Italians, and east European immigrants in Germany based on xenobhobia and sterotypes even today and there are racially motivated crimes, far more right wing than left wing viollence can be observed today. I am also old enough, to remember all the rhetoric that was thrown around when refugees from the Yugoslavian civil war started to come to Germany. And it is strikingly similar to what people said about refugees from the middle east.
Is Spain, France or Germany culturally 'pure'? Is that why the Catalans scream for their independce? 30% of the Bavarians would support an independence from the German Republic and how 'french' do Corsicans actually feel exactly? What about Flandern and Wallonia? Are they not experiencing conflicts? How about Italy, and the tensions between the north and south regions? Where they believe in the north the south to be filled with lazy bums leeching of the north and the south sees the north as smug elites? Do you willfullfy ignore all of those cases for some reason because you're overly focused on skin colour and the origin of nationality?
No one here denies - to my knowledge - the issues of different cultures and problems of different ethnicites living together. Yes, wars motivated by ethnic differences are a reality, there have been conentration camps for Bosnians and Croats, mostly of muslim faith, in Serbia and the whole civil war was also about ethnicity, but not solely.
But you're placing a way to high significance on ethnicity in this topic, as like people would be some kind of hive mind and culture would always dominate every thought and decision.
Gun culture alone for the US for example, is also not the only factor in their relatively high gun viollence. No one ever made that claim, just for the record. But that is what we're talking about here in the topic, gun culture and the contribution to the gun viollence. We could as well open up topics about the US Health Care system, the role of viollence in the US culture (education, movies, etc.) and general outlook on wars. US policy in general follows an approach that is somewhat reminiscent of Clausewitz - "war is politics by other means", where as in Germany the general idea in diplomacy about war is from it as Ultima Ratio, avoiding it at all cost. But nothing of that, has necessarily something to do with the ethnicity in the US or Germany.
However, the real issue here is that nonthing of what you talked about like ethnic diversity and differences in cultural identity has anything to do with gun violence per se since gun viollence pretty much happens almost everywhere around the world, and it happens despite the ethnic diversity not beacuse of the divesity - big difference!. Do you want to tell us right now that Germany is suffering less gun viollence compared to the US because it is not displaying the same ethnic diversity like the US does? You're always very obscure about your intentions when I ask you to explain your reasoning.
However mixing gun viollence and ethnicity is racist as it would be like saying Germany had less by traffic related deaths compared to the US due to it's homogenous society. That's an interpretation and that interpretation is simply wrong.
If we talk about gun viollence in particular, then simply put the reason why the US has more gun related crimes, is because there are more weapons in circulation. Crimes happen in Germany as well! What surprise, but they usually don't involve guns and thus have a lower mortality rate. This fact, has nothing to do with ethnicity, which is a problem for it self.
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
They do because of an entire two generations of indoctriation and entitlement, and because their regional president has a higher salary than the central president and like it that way
Also Putin I guess
That situation does remind me of the slogan of nationalistic feelings: "It's my right to vulnerate other's rights!"
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
You're the :I am not a retard but (insert retarded stuff here): kind of guy. As for the rest of your post - suit yourself and keep pilling up your straw men, won't play your idiotic games with you this time.
This is the point I was referring to, and this is where discussion about cultural differences started from, you idiot:
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First, nobody wrote Germany is culturally 'pure', you idiot. Is far less fragmented than U.S.
Also Catalans going for independence is proving that more culturally fragmented society means more social tension fueled by cultural differences, ergo comparing Switzerland and U.S. won't fly.
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Deleted member 93956
Guest
It's more about peer pressure, misinformation and economic reasons, despite Spain's economy being at it best state since almost ten years ago. Catalan, Navarre, Basque, Asturian, Valencian movements along all the political spectrum offer for some fun fun friction, not yet to this point though.
Closer to topic, I sure as shit wouldn't like the protestors and the saucepan clangers to have even a smidgeon of a chance to be armed, and nor the radical right's busting balls this last week.
"Defending against a possinly tyrannical government", which I see quite often as a pro gun argument, would be fine if the fefinition of "tyrannical" wasn't entirely up to how much and which propaganda have you guffed so far.
Awesome.
"I want to post my stuff but I don't want to discuss it!".
You also love to throw the word Strawman around, without giving any evidence of it as like I mentioned black people or homoegenous culture, when in fact you and GM mentioned it first. I never made that argument, that either black people or ethnicity has anything to do with gun viollence, which is the topic we're talking about. So I just wanted to know, why you and GM brought it up.
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
Besides, of which both you and GM still denny to explain what you mean by it. Hey! Fine by me. But if you don't want to be seen as a racist, then you should explain why you're mentioning it.
Talking about idiots I see ... Then maybe it would have been nice if you refered to that in your original comment and who you actually meant with it, since I was IN A DISCUSSION WITH GM, JohnnyEgo has stoped posting like 3 pages ago. I am sorry if not reading minds and intentions constitutes someone as idiot in your opinion, since it looked to me like you defended GMs position.
Here is the original post order at which point you adressed me with it:
At which point in the conversation did you stop to notice that I was talking to GM and not JohnnyEgo?
The original post I was refering to:
All I ever wanted, was a clarification of his position, like by him, personaly, not by you which is guess work at best.
Now I see the problem. You're simply confusing positions. I didn't compare the US with Switzerland, others did it and I jumped on it as argument by saying "If the US gun culture was like Switzerland it would be an improvement". I actually highlited some major difference between the US and Switzerland by the way.
Gun-supporters often make the argument, that guns are not so bad "CUZ SWITZERLAND!".
I suggest that you read the last 5 or 6 pages before you engage in the discussion again, to see where everyone is standing. Not a biggy, we all do such mistakes sometimes when we engage in a long and complex discussion.
Besides, of course we're all aware about the differences between the nations. That still doesn't mean that we can't make comparisions. It's not like US citizens come from Mars and Europeans from the Venus or something.
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