Gun Control

Crni Vuk said:
I don't want to insult you, but that rationalisation, is pretty useless for those that got killed for what you can consider a rather small mistake. At the end of the day, a life was wrongfully taken.
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How is that an insult? I merely explained the tactical and legal realities.

Crni Vuk said:
However, as a civilian you're on the other side of the spectrum.
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I think you're confusing my explanation with an apology. I do not endorse this. I merely understand the reasoning of it.

Crni Vuk said:
The idea that a 'stupid' mistake could actually kill me because there are trigger happy cops running around seeing every civilian as a potential killer, isn't really a very comforting thought. I always saw the police as a public servant, to protect me, not someone that I should 'fear'.
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That's quite naive. Cops are just people that are empowered to do a job. They make mistakes, can be driven by the wrong motivation, can be incompetent, and so on.

Further more, the US Supreme Court has already ruled that cops have literally no legal duty to protect you.

It's highly misguided to believe that any civil servant is out there to help you unconditionally.

Crni Vuk said:
Now you can always say, well just do what the cop says! Easy to say this, yeah. But someone pointing with a gun at you, can do all sorts of things to 'average' people. And mistakes can still happen. Or what ever, let us say you're simply drunk in that moment, as in the case above. Don't get drunk? I knew a lot of people that would get drunk each weekend and do sometimes shit, but nothing serious, they got into issues with the police sometimes for starting a fight or kicking trashcans and that sort of stuff. But that kind of behaviour doesn't justify shooting them because the cops have been in 'fear' for their life. What are they paid and trained for in the first place? To act like an occuping force?

And many americans feel absolutely fine with that situation. Cuz that's how it is! And how it always was!
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It's not something we can change. It's up to them to drive this change if they believe it necessary.

Crni Vuk said:
I know that it's a difficult job, but there is still no justification for it in my opinion. And that is not an 'european' view, but simply for a so called civiliced society.
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The question for us will be how long we can keep calling our society civilized.
The decline has started.

MutantScalper said:
I don't remember Judge Dredd, or Dirty Harry for that matter, blowing away more or less innocent folks. They always got the really bad guys, and Dirty Harry didn't even shoot unarmed bad guys.
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Actually, Dirty Harry did explicitly shoot an unarmed bad guy. It's the whole finale of one of the movies in the series. But he had it coming. ;)
 
SuAside said:
That's quite naive. Cops are just people that are empowered to do a job.
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I wouldn't say naive, but simply an idealized view. Like what the perfect cop should be. I am well aware, that this kind of cop doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get them to that ideal as close as possible.

SuAside said:
They make mistakes, can be driven by the wrong motivation, can be incompetent, and so on.
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And those that do, should be punished accordingly. But not even that happens as often as it should. Even in Germany. Things are so bad, that lawyers give you the advice to not sue the police, as they always sue you back and in most cases they win.

SuAside said:
It's not something we can change. It's up to them to drive this change if they believe it necessary.
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No we can not change it from one day to the next, but things can and have changed in the past. That's how we got here with all the advances that we enjoy, like workers right, social security, equality etc. Because at some point, some people decided that change is possible.
 
In an interesting turn of events, I just read that the guy giving the commands in the video is in fact NOT the guy that shot the guy. It's his partner (another sergeant).

I'm not sure that's true though.
 
SuAside said:
Actually, Dirty Harry did explicitly shoot an unarmed bad guy. It's the whole finale of one of the movies in the series. But he had it coming. ;)
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You mean Scorpio? He did pick up the gun. Scorpio the crazy murderous hippie. Gawd dang hippies, if only we could shoot them all.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Sometimes you got to have to take things with humor ...
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You mean humor and misinformation?

He calls them tanks, but they are APCs & MRAPs.They are not the same thing.

He shows a pic of a beat cops and compares it to a riot cop. You really want to compare that? do I need to point out that real riot cops of the original picture's era meant sending cops and soldiers with rifles, not sticks and actually shooting when things got out of hand?

The "low level pot dealers" he's referring to as harmless, are often armed. Do you send a squad car there, with two unarmored cops and risk their life on a hunch that they won't shoot? Or do you send SWAT?

But yes, all his hyperboles aside, I guess we can agree with his message.

MutantScalper said:
You mean Scorpio? He did pick up the gun.
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My recollection isn't all that clear.

Edit: Wasn't the finale, but on the football field. Shot an unarmed man from behind. (not that I'm blaming him, but just saying)
 
Harry did the same "Do I feel lucky" thing he did in the opening, but unlike the guy in the opening Scorpio tries to shoot him and Harry still has a bullet left.
 
There is definetly a problem with excessive police viollence, which is sadly often overlooked for some reason.
 
meh, fuck the criminals.

seems like most people here want to blame the cops and forget the "original sin" was not done by the cops.
 
Yeah it's all because we empathize with them and not to violations of human rights, authority abuse and general brutishness by part of whom are supposed to protect us and everyone, and that being TOTALLY FINE GUYS!
 
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I think that's the problem, something a lot of people do not understand.

Police =/= Jurisdiction.

So when you see a police officer doing something questionable, you have to think about it, that he's not there to dish out punisments. That's not his job. His job is to make sure that people follow the laws, to arrest individuals, so that they could be eventually judged and punished according the the laws. So if someone is in custody, he could be as well innocent. Remember that one? Innocent till proven guilty? Happens more often than peope actually think. And it can hapen quite fast that you end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and then you find your self in custody. Or that you're arrested for very minor crimes, like a speed ticket or hell smoking pod. Do you want to get tasered till kingdom come for that?

Naw. That's all communism. Human rights. Fuck you socialists leftist scumm! If the police has you, you deserve it. Regardless if you're innocent or not. And why? Cuz police officer is a difficult job! And reasons!
 
Crni Vuk said:
And it can hapen quite fast that you end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and then you find your self in custody.
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And if that happens, you better listen to their orders and cooperate. Cop told you to sit down on your arse and wait until your guilt is proven? Well, you just sit down on your arse and wait then, instead of yelling at them, spitting, or generally behaving as a wild animal, as many of these retarded dudes in your video do.
 
valcik said:
And if that happens, you better listen to their orders and cooperate. Cop told you to sit down on your arse and wait until your guilt is proven? Well, you just sit down on your arse and wait then, instead of yelling at them, spitting, or generally behaving as a wild animal, as many of these retarded dudes in your video do.
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After all, the cop's self esteem is more valuable than the criminal's life :drunk:
 
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