Gun Control

[valcik]

If you physically harm a person as anything more than self defence/defence of others, doesn't that kinda go against the whole creed to PROTECT and serve.

Creed is just that - a creed. Protect citizens or their property if only a small fragment of cop's responsibility btw. The real deal and main duty is to enforce law, and police officers are authorized to apply deadly force when needed.

 

[Jogre]

Creed is just that - a creed. Protect citizens or their property if only a small fragment of cop's responsibility btw. The real deal and main duty is to enforce law, and police officers are authorized to apply deadly force when needed.

The whole point in enforcing law is to Protect and Serve.

Laws aren't sacred things that exist for no reason, they exist for the safety of citizens.

They are authorised to apply deadly force, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't use there discretion to figure out whether it's absolutely necessary.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Creed is just that - a creed. Protect citizens or their property if only a small fragment of cop's responsibility btw. The real deal and main duty is to enforce law, and police officers are authorized to apply deadly force when needed.

Let me guess, Judge Dred is your favourite movie?

Just out of curiousity, if a police officer stoped you, took you in custody, and started to misstreat you, that would be 'ok' and completely acceptable for you? With the whole argument, well he is just following a creed after all you know, it is just a small fragment of his responsibility.

 

[valcik]

Let me guess, Judge Dred is your favourite movie?

Nope, you're wrong.
Let me guess too, you don't have the slightest idea what cop's duties really are, probably thinking that he's been employed only to protect you and your property?

Just out of curiousity, if a police officer stoped you, took you in custody, and started to misstreat you, that would be 'ok' and completely acceptable for you?

Police officers stopped me many times in my lifetime actually, not even once treating me inproperly or violently. Here's my own personal advice HOW-TO-CUSTODY!

1. Walk the streets dreessed properly, in terms of local customs or law. Don't dance on rooftops butt-naked for instance, that's a big NO-NO!
2. Cop asked you for papers or whatever? Listen to him and cooperate. Don't yell, don't pull out your gun if you carry one, don't make anything stupid just for the lulz. Cop won't appreciate your humor at all.
3. Don't bite the cop, dont spite at him, releasing pee or poo at him is a big NO-NO!
4. Generally don't behave as a special snowflake.
5. Profit! (By following these basic steps you are guaranteed to walk freely without handcuffs, chit-chatting with the cop in the most jolly and merry way imaginable. Try and see.)

 

[Deleted member 93956]

Where is step
X) Don't be Black or Hispanic?

:>

 

[Crni Vuk]

Nope, you're wrong.
Let me guess too, you don't have the slightest idea what cop's duties really are, probably thinking that he's been employed only to protect you and your property?

Well let us see then:

Duties

The primary duty of a police officer is to protect people and property. To accomplish this task, police officers carry out specific job duties on a regular basis, which vary depending on the size and type of their law enforcement organization. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, common duties of a police officer include patrolling designated areas, enforcing laws, answering calls for help, arresting individuals suspected of committing crimes, issuing citations, testifying in court and conducting traffic stops. Police officers also complete reports and fill out forms regarding incidents.
http://work.chron.com/obligations-job-duties-police-officers-24841.html​

Duties and functions

Responsibilities of a police officer are varied, and may differ greatly from within one political context to another. Typical duties relate to keeping the peace, law enforcement, protection of people and property and the investigation of crimes. Officers are expected to respond to a variety of situations that may arise while they are on duty. Rules and guidelines dictate how an officer should behave within the community, and in many contexts, restrictions are placed on what the uniformed officer wears. In some countries, rules and procedures dictate that a police officer is obliged to intervene in a criminal incident, even if they are off-duty. Police officers in nearly all countries retain their lawful powers while off duty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_officer#Duties_and_functions​

Obviously they have a wide range of duties and responsibilites. Protecting citizens and property definetly seems to be one of them. Tasering civilians in custody while they are restrained, isn't.

Maybe things in Slovakia are different and the police is also used to torture people there for fun. No clue.

Police officers stopped me many times in my lifetime actually, not even once treating me inproperly or violently. Here's my own personal advice HOW-TO-CUSTODY!

Nice way of dodging the question as I wasn't asking "what should you do in custody?", but if you would think mistreatment is justifable with, I quote "Creed is just that - a creed. Protect citizens or their property if only a small fragment of cop's responsibility btw.".

Even cops are bound to laws, would you not at least agree to that? Seriously, you can respect and love the police as institution, but there can be no discussion about the fact that some cops are simply put, bad individuals. Maybe let us say 90 or 95% of them are doing a decent job, but there would be still a small number of cops left who do something wrong, and those are the ones I am talking about. And demanding them to be punished, should be something that any resonable person can agree with. Or so I thought. Because for the third time now, that's what I am talking about. Clear misbehaviour on the cops side.

The fact that YOU have never been wrongly treated even once in your lifetime, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

So here again, what would you do if a cop started to beat you in custody, simply because he didn't like the town where you're born?

 

[valcik]

Since you've omitted the most important part of text from linked pages, I'll add it here for a complete view:

Almost universally, police officers are authorized the use of force, up to and including deadly force, when acting in a law enforcement capacity.[10] Although most law enforcement agencies follow some variant of the use of force continuum, where officers are only authorized the level of force required to match situational requirements, specific thresholds and responses vary between jurisdictions.[11]

 

[Risewild]

Almost universally, police officers are authorized the use of force, up to and including deadly force, when acting in a law enforcement capacity.[10] Although most law enforcement agencies follow some variant of the use of force continuum, where officers are only authorized the level of force required to match situational requirements, specific thresholds and responses vary between jurisdictions.[11]

This actually supports what Crni is saying. If someone is already in custody and handcuffed, the force necessary to match the situational requirements is very low. Taser someone in that condition is without a doubt excessive force.

 

[valcik]

I disagree.
As long as handcuffed person doesn't obey the orders, such as sitting down or whatever, trying to step close to the cop repeatedly, they can use more force with his each attempt to endanger them, until the suspect won't stop act threatingly. Again, we can't see what happened in this video before suspects got tased, except for a couple of cases where's pretty clear that the suspect doesn't cooperate - walks toward cops despite being signaled by a hand to stop.

 

[Jogre]

Let me guess too, you don't have the slightest idea what cop's duties really are, probably thinking that he's been employed only to protect you and your property?

Well the whole point of even having cops to begin with is to protect people.

Were it not for that, we may as well not have them.

Since you've omitted the most important part of text from linked pages, I'll add it here for a complete view:

They are legally authorised to use force.

You can still disagree with how ethically right it is depending on the situation.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

snip

but I guess that goes against "listen and believe"....

How do you expect to make a point with a contextless and oblique story example when you're ignoring others'?

 

[Crni Vuk]

I disagree.
As long as handcuffed person doesn't obey the orders, such as sitting down or whatever, trying to step close to the cop repeatedly, they can use more force with his each attempt to endanger them, until the suspect won't stop act threatingly. Again, we can't see what happened in this video before suspects got tased, except for a couple of cases where's pretty clear that the suspect doesn't cooperate - walks toward cops despite being signaled by a hand to stop.

At this point I have to assume that you're either not capable or not willing to understand, that I am not talking about people that RESIST(!) even, in any way shape or form.

Seriously, is it so hard to just admit that SOME cops out there, step over their boundaries? Seriously, I don't understand what the problem is.

Is it seriously impossible for you to just say, yes someone who wrongfully tortured a person should be punished, regardless who it is?

 

[valcik]

At this point I have to assume that [..] SOME cops out there, step over their boundaries?

That's what we have special investigators for, isn't it? Until they'll carefuly investigate every single case reported, you have to assume that these cops are innocent, that's the basic premise of our legislative as I've been told by someone in this very thread. Assume whatever you wish, make wild accusations on top of it if you wish, just don't ask me to agree with anything until you can prove it, please. Posting full record from security camera instead of some cut off crap would be a good start for example.

 

[Crni Vuk]

But do you AT THE VERY LEAST agree that a cop who CLEARLY AND UNDENIABLY has done something wrong, should be punished accordingly to the laws, yes?! Can we agree on that?

 

[valcik]

Yes, I won't deny you that - every cop proven guilty for abusing his official authority in the slightest way has to be punished accordingly.

 

[TheWesDude]

If you physically harm a person as anything more than self defence/defence of others, doesn't that kinda go against the whole creed to PROTECT and serve.

that may be their creed, but not their job, or even legal responsibility.

in fact, their job and responsibilities specifically does not include protecting. I have seen others post that in this thread. it seems a few people have been ignoring it.

their job is to enforce the law once it has been broken by investigating crimes, and apprehending people who broke the law. their job is NOT to protect you from a crime, or prevent one from happening. there are a few rare exceptions normally having to do with conspiracy or pre-meditation planning to execute a crime.

the reason is because if any "first responder" has an absolute responsibility to act, then it creates a legal liability for failure to act or unsatisfactory outcomes when action is taken, as such action could put their lives in danger.

that may be their creed/motto, but not their job or their responsibility.

 

[Crni Vuk]

their job is NOT to protect you from a crime, or prevent one from happening. there are a few rare exceptions normally having to do with conspiracy or pre-meditation planning to execute a crime.

Right. So when you're beaten and mugged a police officer is supposed to just stand there and watch it happen till it's finished?

What a bullshit.

Oh you know! That's not a cops job, to 'protect' you as a citizen! AH! But you see when he does controlls someone and shoots them out of fear for his live, that is ok, pre-emtive measures! It could be criminal reaching for his gun you know!

 

[valcik]

So when you're beaten and mugged a police officer is supposed to just stand there and watch it happen till it's finished?

As long as beating and mugging someone is considered a crime according to the local law, any cop witnessing it would act. Not to protect you, but to prevent the offender to break the law. I think you still are not aware that there's a lot of various penal laws, with only couple of them covering direct threats against you.

 

[Crni Vuk]

And what is the point of those laws ...?

Not to protect you, but to prevent the offender to break the law.

That whole thought is so outlandish, that policeforces even have it on their cars. Right?

OMG! Look! No law broken or any crime going on but a police officer is protecting a citizens constitutional rights! Damn it! That guy surely doesn't know the boundaries and duties of his job!



And there is even FUCKING more! A POLICE officer even who's actually telling another police officer how to do his god damn fucking job, by explaining the rights of a citizen! How despicable!

 

[valcik]

Right? OMG! Look! Damn it! FUCKING A POLICE god damn fucking job

FUCK BITCH LOL WTF FUCKING SHIT ARSE BALLS RIGHT? GOD SATAN DAMN FUCKING IT!

A creed is still just a creed, you can't change that. Also different police departments or agencies follows different directives, so chances are some guys from street patrol would gladly help old lady crossing the street, whilst guys from cyber security department or special services won't give a flying fuck seeing how someone started beating you right on the street.

There's a couple of state police departments here in Slovakia, separated from small local city police units. They don't follow the same orders and our state police won't "protect and serve" you, so better be prepared for it if you ever cross eastern German borders.