Gun Control

Crni

Could you seriously stop being dramatic? Nobody said your side was vile. NOBODY.

What I did want people to do were to argue CONCISE and SPECIFIC points.

What I DO NOT WANT, is people LYING, using emotion rather than logic, to argue for control.
 
Who's lying exactly though? And if we are at it, please define 'left' as both has been used quite ambiguously as argument here ...
 
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'We certainly do not understand why it should be harder to make plans with friends on weekends than to buy an automatic or semi-automatic weapon.'.....Emmy

That is straight up bullshit AKA LIES.

The bullshit about full auto? Wrong.

Trying to shady as fuck construe bump stocks as 'full auto', bullshit.
 
Well, I guess if you squint really hard and define full auto as "fire as long as the trigger finger doesn't move" you could see a bump stock as kinda full auto...
 
First of all, there was no mention of bump stocks in the comment I copied and pasted.

Second, the weapon itself, is STILL not full auto. If you noticed, the guy is still firing PER trigger pull, not holding it down.

ONLY WITH a bump stock, does it 'give the appearance', of full auto, and even then, only to certain people. The weapons RoF, with a bump stock, STILL, pales in comparison to actual full auto.

NOW people are mentioning bump stocks, but before, people were trying to ban weapons soley on aesthetics, which is fucking stupid. It 'looks', like a military rifle so it must be full auto.
 
Looking at it again I have to say I am still always astonished by the speed a semi-automatic AR-15 can actually fire even if it's not an fully automatic weapon.
 
Looking at it again I have to say I am still always astonished by the speed a semi-automatic AR-15 can actually fire even if it's not an fully automatic weapon.
It is pretty amazing to see the rate of the semi-auto action that a human by themselves (mostly) would never achieve. I have never done it with an AR, but with a SKS it can be interesting, and almost impossible to aim.
 
Hass

But some of these gun control people actually call it full auto, which just makes them look totally fucking stupid. They are trying to BAN a specific weapon, on bullshit.

Crni

Man semi-auto is semi-auto.

If it is a weapon that has a magazine, then it is going to fire faster than a bolt action or single action weapon.

This is what I am arguing. Debate is fine, but don't do it half assed. Make coherent arguments based on facts and not emotions.
 
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It is pretty amazing to see the rate of the semi-auto action that a human by themselves (mostly) would never achieve. I have never done it with an AR, but with a SKS it can be interesting, and almost impossible to aim.
Reminds me to footage of someone who used to 'bump fire' the M1 Garant. It kinda works similar to what a bump stock does where you simply use the recoil to speed up the firing. Of course completely unpractical and useless in a combat situation, but still interesting nontheless, pretty sure you could do that with other weapons too, like the SKS Simonov.

Again, this is pretty much completely useless, and in no way meant as an argument.

A Bump Stock on the other hand, makes it far more easier to reliably emulate the full-auto mechanic of a weapon and making it actually practial.

Since we're talking about it, I find the argument by some on youtuber about the Bump Stock being 'inacurate' for practical use somewhat funny, like accuracy is a key point with automatic fire in the first place ...

And to @DarkCorp, I didn't post the video about Bump Stocks particularly as answer to you, just to remind people again what it actually is and what it does. And honestly I see this discussion about what fully automatic fire is, rather as a technicality and semantics with a Bump Stock. A Bump Stock, does turn your weapon effectively into an assault weapon, even if the mechanics inside the weapon don't change but the end result is pretty obvious. - I am not stupid, I understand this:


A Bump stock really does something that is not that far away from what some weapons do, using the recoil and spring mechanics and firing gases of the weapons to cock the pins inside the guns or what ever.

Banning bump stocks, would be really a sensible thing to do in my opinion and it is a loop hole giving civilans access to something that would be only available to fully automatic weapons.

Make coherent arguments based on facts and not emotions.
Which of my arguments is incoherent, please be specific.
 
But some of these gun control people actually call it full auto, which just makes them look totally fucking stupid. They are trying to BAN a specific weapon, on bullshit.

This is semantics.

weapon effectively into an assault weapon

Which is a made-up category. An SKS with a pistol grip is considered an assault weapon. People are arguing for banning assault weapons (assault rifles) which are already unavailable to the public. If you want an actual assault rifle you need to pass a background check, purchase a federal license (NOT the same as a State issued license), and be subject to random ATF check ups annually. Automatic weapons are basically illegal in the states (except for a few states) and even then they are no longer manufactured for civilian use thanks to the 1986 law that restricted them. The 150,000 assault rifles that were in circulation before that legislation are legal for private transfer and sale between individuals, which might as well make them luxurious collectibles for super wealthy enthusiasts.

Those guys on YouTube firing off automatic weapons? Most of the time they don't even own them. Hickock45 for example has fully-automatic weapons borrowed for demo on his private range because state laws are pretty loosy-goosy with borrowing.
 
For me personaly, any weapon including semi-automatic weapons with large magazine capacity would consider as an 'assault weapon'. There can be no doubt that you will have a distinctive advantage with an AR 15 and a 20 or 30 round magazine over someone who has only a 6 shooter not to mention a lot of military units used also semi-automatic weapons for quite some time. But hey, I know what you mean it's not a clear terminology and I see why gun-nuts get so crazy about it, but it has seen some use and not ONLY by anti-guners:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon#History_of_terminology

Besides, I havn't said AR-15s should be banned. At the moment, the bare minimum that should be banned, are Bump Stocks.

However, we're getting totally lost in definitions right now since that it's really not the core of the issue here.

Again, this is at the core about gun culture, now you can argue that it's only a very small issue and maybe one that shouldn't even be adressed, but you can't act like it is not a part of the problem. As I said many times, yes there are multiple reasons for the increased gun viiollence and no banning all kinds of weapons will not fix the issue. But there is an unhealthy relation between guns and how people see them in the US. And I said it in the past and I say this again, gun fetishists are like alcholics at this point, addicts and they do not even recognize their addiction which makes it very problematic.
 
Crni

Not your arguments but those like Emmys who use blatant lies and falsifications to fear monger. I have posted examples already.

6 shots for REVOLVERS.

If you want to talk magazine capacity, double Glocks with Beta C mags are even more dangerous. With an AR, you have to waste time reloading whereas just throw the empty pistol away and bring out another. If you take into account ease of use, concealment, and dual wielding weapons at close range, firing into a MASS of people, the pistol wins. However, I do not see people bitching and moaning over pistols.

CIA

It ISN'T semantics though. If you compare two videos, one with bump firing and one with full-auto, there is a HUGE difference in rate of fire.

Personally, I do not mind regulating bump stocks.
 
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Where did she lie? Please be specific. I am just curious, as right now most of the lies that I spoted have been made about her:

https://crooksandliars.com/2018/03/steve-king-attacks-emma-gonz-lez-offensive

King cited Gonzalez's Cuban heritage as a reason why she should love guns, as Castro removed all weapons from its citizenry. A lie.


Castro never confiscated all guns, and in fact, Cuba had an active citizen militia for many years, especially after the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961. GunPolicy.org puts current private gun ownership there at several hundred thousand.


So, another baseless lie that the right often uses to shore up its attacks on its enemies.



I am not saying however, that she's always correct, I havn't seen or heard all of her speeches.
 
The CNN speech I quoted.

How she says, 'it is easier to get full and semi-auto guns than to plan a fucking outing with friends?' That is just so fucking stupid on so many levels. Again, the bump stock situation is NOT full auto. You can only make that comparison if bump firing can provide a comparable increase in RoF, opposed to full auto.

She said, 'the people (who I take to mean the NRA she is attacking, and gun advocates) who encouraged the shooter to buy accessories to modify semi-automatic weapons into full-auto ones.' I don't even recall the shooter using full auto weapons.

The whole conversion is ILLEGAL and nobody in their right mind would advocate that.
 
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It ISN'T semantics though. If you compare two videos, one with bump firing and one with full-auto, there is a HUGE difference in rate of fire.

It's semantics in the sense of what people actually mean. Bump stocks are a retarded loophole for cunts looking to make a quick buck on enthusiasts before state legislators and lawyers tie it off.

It's about as stupid as the bullet button shit in California and how some companies have invented devices that fix your mag into the well and prevent ejection until you pop open the upper receiver. All that effort because they don't want to register it.

I don't understand why you insist on filibustering over the perceived differences. It's like being a neck beard at a Warhammer 40k tournament and arguing that you can see the vehicle's antenna over the building and can therefore shoot at it, despite the vehicle being behind several concrete walls. Fine, whatever, they're not the same thing. At least move the fuck over and accept that it's an emulation of full-auto so this convo can move on.
 
For me personaly, any weapon including semi-automatic weapons with large magazine capacity would consider as an 'assault weapon'.
So something like this...
s-l225.jpg

The fact you consider this to be an assault weapon is pretty funny. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! He wrote "any weapon including semi-automatic weapons with large magazine capacity would consider as an 'assault weapon'". He's not limiting himself to firearms that are FULLY SEMI-AUTOMATIC! Hence his definition of an assault rifle.
e1-3-wmagrf.JPG
 
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