Healthcare reform just passed!

[victor]

Some tangible proof of the whole "THEY TOOK OUR HEALTHCARE!" problem with the illegal immigrants would be nice.

Indeed. About half the posts since page 5 are about this issue, but as long as no data can confirm anything, everyone's speculating out of their asses.


Good point, Sander. Maybe I should correct it to "transitional dictatorship". But then again, that is very difficult to maintain in practice. Maybe the Roman Republic is a good example of this?

 

[CloudlessDruid]

What democracy?

Cuba is doing relatively good for a country in its position from a welfare position, but there's a lot of downsides too, mostly in the form of political oppression and a limitation of liberty.

If I am not mistaken, before Castro there was a President. Lots of corruption and stuff involved. I can't check on wikipedia because I am on my gfs home and her internet is shitty..

I'm curious how people seem to know how happy those citizens are given the complete lack of data on that.

Now, about the citizens happiness, I am based on what people who have gone there told me. People who speak spanish and talked to people there. They are poor, and they know its not because of Castro. Maybe my friends are wrong, but I've heard opinions of 8 or 9 people. I've even one friend who lives there. He studies Medicine

Even when a benevolent dictatorship works, what happens when mr benevolent dictator dies?

Thats completaly relative. In Brazil, we had a pretty badass general in power here in our military rule, General Medici. But we had some pretty relaxed ones too.

I believe if a dictatorship is "benevolent", the probability that its rulers are not going to be nuts generals with mad ambitions is higher.

 

[Per]

If there is such a thing as "transitional dictatorship", wouldn't it be beaten anyway by "transitional democracy"? For any assumption you make, I can make a similar one, with a head start.

If I am not mistaken, before Castro there was a President.

Before Castro there was Batista. Supported by the US, but a dictator.

 

[victor]

True, but democracies can be shitty too. Especially when they don't care for their own citizens.

Maybe this is kind of a "does the end justify the means?" problem. Or rather, based on what you consider most important in a society. Political freedom or good standard of living for most.

 

[Sander]

If I am not mistaken, before Castro there was a President. Lots of corruption and stuff involved. I can't check on wikipedia because I am on my gfs home and her interet is shitty.

Yeah, that was about as democratic as the current regime.

Now, about the citizens happiness, I am based on what people who have gone there told me. People who speak spanish and talked to people there. They are poor, and they know its not because of Castro. Maybe my friends are wrong, but I've heard opinions of 8 or 9 people. I've even one friend who lives there. He studies Medicine.

Ah yes, a single friend who lives there, and the tourists who of course always get to see the full range of people living there.

Thats completaly relative. In Brazil, we had a pretty badass general in power here in our military rule, General Medici. But we had some pretty relaxed ones too.

I believe if a dictatorship is "benevolent", the probability that its rulers are not going to be nuts generals with mad ambitions is higher.

Eh, yeah, that's pretty much the definition of a benevolent dictatorship, there. The problem is: dicatorships have a distinct lack of checks, balances and are hotbeds for power abuse. Even when a dictatorship works it's generally not a very good long-term form of government given that there's very little public control on excesses.

 

[Crni Vuk]

uh, it was better before with their pretty cool democracy?

Yup, dictatorship is pretty much the way to go, happy-wise.

Or is it

Dictatorship isn't inherently bad or evil. Don't make the classic assumption that democracy > all

I reall am not sure if that was Pers point. That a democracy can have fascistic tendencies or can have flaws is of course obvious. But if you would have a chance to choose between a Cuban system and a more or less free democratic system with free elections and parties. Which would you personaly prefer? Thats at least what I would like to know.

 

[victor]

If my priority was good healthcare, I wouldn't be able to give a straight answer. Also, American democracy is, well... Not the best one.

 

[nemo00]

I don't get it, when it is about going to war, which costs a shitload of money and creates huge amount of debt (which also comes out of the taxpayers pockets) most of US citizens don't say a word, but when it comes to saving lives, and taking a step towards ending discrimination in healthcare, as health should bea fundamental right for every citizen, no matter the social strata of which he is part of, they start to protest and. And all this because of illegal immigrants, a phenomenon which first of all is the fault of the citizens themselves. I mean most of the illegal immigrants wouldn't come over if they wouldn't find any work, but of course it is cheaper for a business owner to hire illegal immigrants and pay them squat and also work them till they drop, then hire their own, . Hell, maybe if you force your citizens to pay for everyones healthcare, you as a business owner will think twice before hiring illegal immigrants and work them to death, because in the end you will have to pay for their hospitalization.

Really? People haven't been going on and on about all the "unjust" wars that are going on? They're pretty unpopular. The people are talking. Hell, it was brought up quite a bit during the last presidential campaigns. People are quite concerned about it. What are you talking about?

i've seen the forums during the iraqi wars, and the same people who where yelling "go bomb them back to the stone age" and they didn't give a flying fuck where the money comes from R the same ones that R protesting and "worrying" about cost issues, (of course there R the "end is near" people who see the coming of the antichrist in every move of the government)

Do you really think that forcing a business to purchase health care for its employees would force someone from cheap labor to more expensive labor? Do you know anything about making a profit?

First of all i do know something about making a profit as I am a business owner myself, and doing quite well thank you. what I was suggesting is that by forcing business owners to pay health insurance for all their employees, illegal immigrants or not will eliminate one of the main reasons of hiring illegals as you force the owners to do exactly the thing that they are trying to escape by hiring them in the first place (not paying employee benefits, working them to death etc.) . This also could have the effect of reducing the number illegal immigrants as it won't be very profitable hiring them. The funny thing is that the same rednecks who preach abut the danger of illegals taking over the country are the same ones who created this situation with "this is my land and i will hire whoever the fuck I want and don't pay my taxes" who created the situation in the first place. In short they would like slave labor legalized, as they have a very well defined white power mentality.

In the same time normal business owners who hire their citizens or legal immigrants, and pay employee benefits anyway, won't really feel the change hell with a little bit of luck they may even come of cheeper.

 

[Per]

We have a spell checker.

 

[.Pixote.]

I think the most practical solution to the health care issue is to abolish all forms of health care, and return to the age when we all died from the common flu, consumption, pneumonia, etc. Just to make everyone happy we should also abolish personal transport (except for your legs and a bike), who knows that might just encourage people to do regular exercises, eat healthy nutritional food, quit smoking and heavy drinking and be humans again. Grow food locally. When did we stop taking responsibility for ourselves, when we started believing that others had all the solutions? Oh the average age will drop from 80 to 50…(or maybe not - if we are living a healthier happier existence – I don’t know).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death