Holy Shit

UncannyGarlic said:
Depends on the religion. Some religions have notable or even significant numbers of their organization (holy people, not regular practitioners) which admit that their mythology is just that (though they rarely use that word) and that history and science are completely seperate beasts (Catholicism has been gradually making this shift for awhile) and for them, yeah, you have a valid point. On the other hand there are also religions who (claim to) stick to the word of their holy texts and for them I think it's fair to make the comparison.
Contradictions and hypocrisy, often resulting in amusing irony for me, are everywhere and the longer an organization exists, the larger the number of those contradictions that will naturally appear. As you said, organizations (religions) naturally morph over time but acting like those changes never took place and that the organization follows the same rules and principles that it did when it was founded is a bit absurd. Heck, sometimes religions contradict themselves within their own pages. For example, Genesis is a combination of two different creation myths which results in Adam and Eve being created at the same time and Eve being created from Adams rib after Adam was created (a mythological contradiction rather than a ritualistic one).
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This is all neat, but it is dodging the point.
You were going on about how the definition of idol worship in the Old Testament is silly, as no religion prays to idols. Yet this isn't probably true for religions existing at the time of the manuscript.
 
Ummm, Garlic, Catholicism and other judeo-christian religions are FULL of idol worship. Don't forget culture before religion. Roman pagans + Jewish/Christian Rebels = Catholicism with all it's weirdness.
 
I think the worship of objects like the Menorah and Ark of the Covenant can be seen as idols ?
 
On a dog's arse ? Their so called saviour ?
These people are retarded.
More i have to read stupid things like this,the more convinced i become that devout religious people are bat-shit crazy and will believe almost anything no matter how idiotic or insane.
 
UncannyGarlic said:
Christians...== idol worshipers
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Pray tell, what exactly is this idol Christians worship?
UncannyGarlic said:
Yes, because no other Christian sect venerates anyone other than their one God. Oh, that's right, it's a religion based on worshiping a man named Jesus who is supposed to be God's son. Wait a second, Christianity is a monotheistic religion yet they worship three deities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost...
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The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are all, for lack of better word, aspects of one God. That said, yes, some sects do get carried away and worship saints, angels and so on and so forth, which is not in accordance with christian tradition. Just thought I'd point that out.
x'il said:
I'm interested. Please go ahead.
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I second that notion.
Patton89 said:
More i have to read stupid things like this,the more convinced i become that devout religious people are bat-shit crazy and will believe almost anything no matter how idiotic or insane.
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I'd be careful using the word 'devout' in this context. 'Fanatical' would fit the bill better.
 
Gloomy said:
The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are all, for lack of better word, aspects of one God. That said, yes, some sects do get carried away and worship saints, angels and so on and so forth, which is not in accordance with christian tradition. Just thought I'd point that out.
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They are three seperate persons despite the attempts by some to say that they three different forms of the same god which either all exist at the same time or exist in turn (depends on who you ask), both in order to prevent Christianity from violating Abrahamic rules/belief.

Gloomy said:
Pray tell, what exactly is this idol Christians worship?
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Crucifix.

Gloomy said:
I'd be careful using the word 'devout' in this context. 'Fanatical' would fit the bill better.
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Devout is a euphemism for fanatic.
 
UncannyGarlic said:
They are three seperate persons despite the attempts by some to say that they three different forms of the same god which either all exist at the same time or exist in turn (depends on who you ask), both in order to prevent Christianity from violating Abrahamic rules/belief.
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Unity of the Trinity is a core tenet of the Christian belief. If you can't grasp the concept and/or consider it a pragmatic rationalization, then perhaps you should not bring it up or comment on it.
UncannyGarlic said:
Crucifix.
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The crucifix is neither the focal point of worship, nor is it a necessary tool for worship. Within the Christian religion, it is merely a reminder of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice.
UncannyGarlic said:
Devout is a euphemism for fanatic.
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A Devout Christian goes to church. A fanatic looks for virgin Mary in bird droppings on his way from church. Should you wish to pursue this further, consult a dictionary.
 
Seeing athiests comment on religious beliefs humors me. They almost always get it wrong. Meh, I'm easily amused.
 
Ashmo said:
fanatic idol worship in South America.
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Mexico isn't in South America, you goddamn Kraut.

Also, it's a matter of the religion being introduced there gradually, replacing 'pagan' celebrations and beliefs with church-approved festivities and saints. Exactly like... everywhere else?

Also, fanatical idol worship isn't exactly the rule.
 
Shoveler said:
Seeing athiests comment on religious beliefs humors me. They almost always get it wrong. Meh, I'm easily amused.
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Atheist: I tried to speak with this god, but nobody answered. I tried to meet him, but couldn't because he's invisible and nobody can see him. They say that I have to live without sins and die to meet him, but then I thought "Why the hell he gives us life, so we can spend it on trying to be good as he says, and then die just to meet him?". Where is the logic?

Religious Person: You just don't get it, you don't GET IT!!

Atheist: What? I thought he was supposed to be smart and shit.

Religious Person: You don't get it, you don't get it...
 
Brother None said:
Huh. You say this based on...?
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Their presence and what they do in the myths of Christianity and their lack of presence in Judaism.

Gloomy said:
Unity of the Trinity is a core tenet of the Christian belief. If you can't grasp the concept and/or consider it a pragmatic rationalization, then perhaps you should not bring it up or comment on it.
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Most, not all. I understand and grasp the concept but how the three "incarnations" act is entirely different. It's something that is part of the Christian mythos (which has no scriptural support and is even contradicted in the Old Testament) solely to prevent the religion from breaking the first commandment, and some sects ignore or discard it.
Nontrinitarinanism
 
Shoveler said:
Seeing athiests comment on religious beliefs humors me. They almost always get it wrong. Meh, I'm easily amused.
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don't generalise...

also, for lulz:

atheists.jpeg
 
UncannyGarlic said:
Most, not all. I understand and grasp the concept but how the three "incarnations" act is entirely different. It's something that is part of the Christian mythos (which has no scriptural support and is even contradicted in the Old Testament) solely to prevent the religion from breaking the first commandment, and some sects ignore or discard it.
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Your opinion of how supported or unsupported the concept is, is completely irrelevant. It can't change the fact that the major Christian sects hold the oneness of the Trinity as a core concept. Yes, there are sects than denounce it, but to call Christianity Polytheistic because of these minor alternative sects is at least as inaccurate as my ignoring them completely in my previous statement.
 
Gloomy said:
Your opinion of how supported or unsupported the concept is, is completely irrelevant. It can't change the fact that the major Christian sects hold the oneness of the Trinity as a core concept. Yes, there are sects than denounce it, but to call Christianity Polytheistic because of these minor alternative sects is at least as inaccurate as my ignoring them completely in my previous statement.
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Trinity was created by Catholicism in order to make the religion not contradict the Old Testament. The concept has no explicit scriptural support and arguable implicit support, which is more the concept being created and legitimizing itself after being created rather than being an integral part of the holy text, thus religion. It's a pretty classic fallacy of necessity.
  • Doctrine states that Abraham religions are monotheistic
  • Jesus (and to a lesser degree the Holy Ghost) are worshiped in Christianity
  • Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and God are all one being
It is also affirming the consequent.
  • Christianity is monotheistic
  • God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are all divine and worshipped
  • Therefore, God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are all the same being
If it's so true and has such strong roots then prove me wrong by quoting explicit proof of the concept in the holy texts of Christianity.
 
I`ve not personally read trough old or new testament, but in conversation of christian people i`ve been often described trinity as sort of three ways god expresses himself.

Not really different personalities/personas even though all these three have their distinct features when they show signs/express themselves in secular world or to people directly.

Persons that have told me this were all(iirc) members of pentecostalist church so this i think(im not sure if this is "official" view within the movement) is their way of seeing trinity as one god.

There is some difference in pentacostalists depending if they are also members of other churches or christian movements. One definining/uniting feature of pentecostalists is personal relation or experience of god.

Food for thought.
 
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