House of the Dragon

Considering how the medieval time period was historically for women, Martins "idea" of it is pretty tame. But it's not a real setting anyway. So there is that.

However I must confes that this "WOMAN ARE OPRESSED HERE!" narrative to create drama is becoming a bit ... cliche lately as long it's not a historical narrative - see the Movie The Duel. I mean I get it, it ads drama, motivation, creates character arches and all that. But at which point does it become self fulfilling? Nothing more but a trope and cheap gimick to score points and have something going on in the plot that doesn't require to actually flesh out characters and present them as believable personalities. Do we always need this outside, social comentary to drive a plot forward and present a woman as "strong" character because she got in power in a super riggid society that hates women? Is that how the most interesting storys out there actually all the time work? Is that why Ripley was such a strong, believable and great character? Because everyone on the crew "hated" her vagina? If the only redeem quality of a person is that she's a women than I kinda feel that this is actually kinda insulting to women. But that's just me.

I don't mind heavy social commentary and drama in storys including fantasy. But fuck. Why not explore something that's more fantasy. I don't know. I am sure there is more out there than that.

Fantasy has the same advantage like science fiction. You can go crazy. You can explore content and ideas that are not possible in a more realistic setting so to speak.
 
eissa said:
You might also missed how she was already finding her love life (Celeborn) as her story evolved, as she was written to be in a power couple right at the beginning. By far the biggest traversity this show has.
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I mean, as a longtime book fan, Celeborn is absolutely nothing burger compared to Galadriel.

Mind you, I thought the show would be better if it followed Galadriel's daughter and her romance with Elrond.

But I didn't write this.

And I'd probably discuss it over in the Lord of the Rings thread.
 
CT Phipps said:
I mean, as a longtime book fan, Celeborn is absolutely nothing burger compared to Galadriel.

Mind you, I thought the show would be better if it followed Galadriel's daughter and her romance with Elrond.

But I didn't write this.

And I'd probably discuss it over in the Lord of the Rings thread.
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Check my additional edits to that post btw.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Considering how the medieval time period was historically for women, Martins "idea" of it is pretty tame. But it's not a real setting anyway. So there is that.
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Speaking as a guy who wasted years getting his Medieval Degree, Martin combined 200 years of infamous horrible events into a small five year time period. Also, he flat out lied about some elements of Medieval history like the age of consummation and childbirth generally. Mostly because Medieval men and women knew that young childbirths were the most likely to kill you.

However I must confes that this "WOMAN ARE OPRESSED HERE!" narrative to create drama is becoming a bit ... cliche lately as long it's not a historical narrative - see the Movie The Duel. I mean I get it, it ads drama, motivation, creates character arches and all that. But at which point does it become self fulfilling? Nothing more but a trope and cheap gimick to score points and have something going on in the plot that doesn't require to actually flesh out characters and present them as believable personalities. Do we always this outside, social comentary to drive a plot forward? Is that how the most interesting storys out there actually all the time work? I don't mind heavy social commentary and drama in storys including fantasy. But fuck. Why not explore something that's more fantasy. I don't know. I am sure there is more out there than that.

Fantasy has the same advantage like science fiction. You can go crazy. You can explore content and ideas that are not possible in a more realistic setting so to speak.
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Funny you should mention THE DUEL because I hated that movie for other reasons: it is a shitty Rashomon adaptation. Rashoman is one of the greatest movies of all time because of the fact ALL THREE of the participants in a rape, murder, and duel story are liars. The wife lies about her rape (not that it didn't happen but the circumstances) because of the same reason that the other two participants are lying. The "real" story of it that her husband abandoned her to be assaulted and that the bandit wasn't interested in her either or particularly fearsome would destroy whatever life she needed to forge as a widow.

It oddly makes 1/3rd of the story more passive because she doesn't attempt to defend herself by twisting the narrative.
 
Yeah, I am not calling it a cinematic master peace. I am just saying in a historical context it makes sense to have a social commentary, like well, the fact how women have been treated and seen in medieval times. Which was often not very favourable.
I don't know how accurate the story of THE DUEL was though. But from what I can read it's rather iffy.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Yeah, I am not calling it a cinematic master peace. I am just saying in a historical context it makes sense to have a social commentary, like well, the fact how women have been treated and seen in medieval times. Which was often not very favourable.
I don't know how accurate the story of THE DUEL was though. But from what I can read it's rather iffy.
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It's weird that they did an adaptation of Rashomon with a real life historical event.

But not NEARLY as weird as the fact that Ridley Scott blamed the internet wokeness for the movie not being a mega blockbuster versus the fact that it's a hideously depressing story.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I am just saying in a historical context it makes sense to have a social commentary, like well, the fact how women have been treated and seen in medieval times.
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The most sympathetic example I can think of is the recent El Cid Leyenda show. It's in spanish though, although there should be some subtitles. Infanta Urracca who at some point is potrayed as defending the honor of her maid being used as spy to some nobleman and thus become his mistress (and subject to his fetish). Yet despite that she is still illegible for her throne. Despite she is much more mature at age than her little brother ever be.
 
CT Phipps said:
Speaking as a guy who wasted years getting his Medieval Degree, Martin combined 200 years of infamous horrible events into a small five year time period. Also, he flat out lied about some elements of Medieval history like the age of consummation and childbirth generally. Mostly because Medieval men and women knew that young childbirths were the most likely to kill you.
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GRRRRRRRRRRR Martin is into anime, isn't he?
 
CT Phipps said:
But not NEARLY as weird as the fact that Ridley Scott blamed the internet wokeness for the movie not being a mega blockbuster versus the fact that it's a hideously depressing story.
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It's simply the easy thing to do and hence why I don't take this "Woke" bullshit serious anymore. It means nothing. It's a shallow word. Lots of people use it to "fight" something simply because they hate it. And lots of people use it to deflect criticsm from their shitty work. It is what it is I guess.
Which doesn't mean that there are not idiots out there that do make stupid changes to "be" woke. But that's a whole different kind of mess.
 
I hate the word woke and I hate the word SJW and I hate the word DRAGON. Dragons are so overrated. Why could they not use a proper Wyvern? Back on topic why not use the giant spiders? Assholes. Waited for those.
 
The air dumbass. It's science.

upload_2022-9-6_20-46-25.jpeg


;)
 
TorontoReign said:
I hate the word woke and I hate the word SJW and I hate the word DRAGON. Dragons are so overrated. Why could they not use a proper Wyvern? Back on topic why not use the giant spiders? Assholes. Waited for those.
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Because dragons have wings and wyverns have arm flaps.
 
TorontoReign said:
They were not gonna spend that much cash on a sure thing.
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They spent those cash on them porns, according to a rumor.

Because The Others as elves present much more interesting promise than them being....whatever Children of The Forest planned for them in the first place.
 
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