How do communists want to enforce their ideology?

Cimmerian Nights said:
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DarkCorp said:
My parents grew up in Maos communism and it absolutely sucked donkey balls. Just look up chinese ration coupons, like people were allowed only a certain amount of meat per month.

Gulags/work camps are needed because SOMEONE had to make shit for near free in order for everyone else to get it dirt cheap/free because of communism.
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Oh, you're Chinese? That remind me that my mother was treated as a class enemy during her childhood, since her parents were landlords and one of her relative was a factory owner or something.

Gulags and Laogai aren't so much to produce stuff cheaply (although they were an important part of Soviet economy), but to get rid of anybody you don't want, you might as well make them work to death.
 
My mothers father, worked as a teacher during Changs regime. He was blacklisted and he wasn't even a fucking party member. My fathers father had the 'unfortunate problem', of belonging to a wealthy class, land owning family. He was told to run to Taiwan but believed the communist bullshit of 'forgiveness'. He was imprisoned for years and got out a broken man.

Since my mother was not of respectable loyalty, she was among those expelled from the cities to work in the fields. What the communists do not tell people is that all the 'workers benefits', only extend to those in the cities, AKA, the trusted folks. If you were a 'Lohngman' (I tried to phoneticize it in Cantonese), otherwise a farmer, you had jack and shit coverage. Not to mention, if you couldn't make the quotas due to bad weather, or the local party leaders inflating of production, the party took everything you had, leaving you to starve. As a bonus, they might beat you to death because you were intentionally 'hiding', the surplus.

Besides the bedrock of civilization like emergency services, socialism historically hasn't worked in non-capitalist bolstered nations. That's why we have forced socialism AKA communism.
 
According to Karl Marx's theory, a socialist country will only appear after highly developed capitalism, but all the so-called "socialist countries", including SU and China, never had "highly developed capitalism", so true, socialism or communism has never really appeared in the world and never worked.

Communism is still a dream or fancy/imagination of future society and is also a concept which is abused by idiots or politicians quite frequently.
 
DarkCorp said:
My mothers father, worked as a teacher during Changs regime. He was blacklisted and he wasn't even a fucking party member. My fathers father had the 'unfortunate problem', of belonging to a wealthy class, land owning family. He was told to run to Taiwan but believed the communist bullshit of 'forgiveness'. He was imprisoned for years and got out a broken man.

Since my mother was not of respectable loyalty, she was among those expelled from the cities to work in the fields. What the communists do not tell people is that all the 'workers benefits', only extend to those in the cities, AKA, the trusted folks. If you were a 'Lohngman' (I tried to phoneticize it in Cantonese), otherwise a farmer, you had jack and shit coverage. Not to mention, if you couldn't make the quotas due to bad weather, or the local party leaders inflating of production, the party took everything you had, leaving you to starve. As a bonus, they might beat you to death because you were intentionally 'hiding', the surplus.

Besides the bedrock of civilization like emergency services, socialism historically hasn't worked in non-capitalist bolstered nations. That's why we have forced socialism AKA communism.
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I guess you were not born in China as you can type so much long sentences without any difficulties :wiggle:

Where are you now?
 
I moved to the U.S. when I was 3 years old. So yea, I am americanized.

Yes Penny, as my previous post from earlier stated, communism only works when capitalism has laid the groundwork for socialism to take root.

America in the 1900s was no different than many developing countries. We had child labor, sweatshops, no workers rights, no worker safety, businessmen could get away with almost anything, etc, etc.

However, things are rarely as black and white as some people see it. Like in Europe, the capitalists industrialized the nation and with it came progress while countries like Qing China and Imperial Japan had to play catchup thanks to their arrogant and xenophobic policies.

Once technology and science has provided us an abundant bounty, so much bounty that it makes competition for resources essentially obsolete, will socialism make greater strides.

On an older thread, I explained how we, as people, are naturally altruistic. However, due to each of us having LIMITED resources, we get choosy in who we want to help. That means we usually help those closest to us.

Socialism forces me to help complete strangers whom I do not know. Are these good people or bad people? Are they users and abusers or do they simply need a little help?

See, altruism, should never be forced. Indeed, it is much more magnanimous if we are not FORCED, but choose to give freely.

If I only had enough money to help one person, and it was between an old man or a child, I would choose the child, no contest. Socialism and Communism puts into LAW, that help must be distributed evenly, as any sign of preference screws up what so many lefty liberals like to scream about, 'equality'.

I had a very basic analogy. Let us say I am 5,4, 145 lbs, and I have an office job. Then we have Larry, who is 6'2, and 280, and works construction. To say me and Larry should live on equal portions of the same, equal food, is completely asinine.

Nowadays, people already can ask for donations online and with the internet, this is starting to be a much more viable option than before.
 
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:revolution:<- Communist enforcing his/her ideology.

No but seriously, pretty interesting. I grew up next to Soviet Union that still existed back then. There was probably quite a lot of Soviet spies in Finland and there are still some small scandals and even trials related to spying suspicions etc. dating back to those times. Similar to the Stasi-stuff in Germany. We also had a lot of 'normal' cultural exchange between the two countries which was ok I guess. Soviets also put a lot of effort into sports and we now know about all the doping stuff etc.

Then again SU is gone now but Finland and the other Nordic Countries are today quite 'socialist' in that we have a lot of benefits etc. So, not sure what to think of the whole thing. I hope China can pretty quickly move into clean tech etc. and not destroy their nature in the process of becoming the supreme ruler of planet earth.
 
They use the influence of the huge state to control peoples lives and regiment them, to make sure nobody gets any ideas. Also they use effective deterrents like execution and labour camps to stop any counter revolution or rebellion.
 
I think it would be equally ok to make a thread "How do capitalists want to enforce their ideology" but I'm not going to make that thread. Just sayin'.
 
"How do capitalists want to enforce their ideology
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They dont need to. Many capitalist countries are just so fundamentally capitalist that they couldn't be anything else, and they dont have any reason to become anything else.

To convert to communism their generally needs to be lots of discontent with the upper classes (and I dont mean feel the bern teenagers, I mean people with pikes ready to lynch), and a good leader to propel communism into power. This tends not to happen in modern first world capitalist countries, because communist parties get about 0.0000000001% of the vote, they have crap leaders and people are not really that pissed with the system enough to change it that much.
 
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I think for example the poor folks in US would most definitely want some of the benefits that European nations have available for their citizens that US doesn't have. Thing is, they've been so marginalized in US and have been left out of the decision making processes that they and their interests don't matter anymore. Some of them might be in very dire situations but since in US the super rich seem to be calling the shots these days, even the middle class is shrinking, it's becoming a very polarized nation overall.
 
MutantScalper said:
I think it would be equally ok to make a thread "How do capitalists want to enforce their ideology" but I'm not going to make that thread. Just sayin'.
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Because capitalism is the natural ideology of human nature?

Let's make a somewhat silly example and bring this down to basics. Ug wants rock. Narg has rock. Narg gives Ug rock, in return for Ug giving Narg a fish. Or Ug helping Narg build a hut.

That's basic capitalism.
 
AlphaPromethean said:
Because capitalism is the natural ideology of human nature?

Let's make a somewhat silly example and bring this down to basics. Ug wants rock. Narg has rock. Narg gives Ug rock, in return for Ug giving Narg a fish. Or Ug helping Narg build a hut.

That's basic capitalism.
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Well the way I see it socialism represents some protection for the weak in a society/community. In a stone age community there was a leader who lead with brute force I guess. In ancient Egypt the pharaoh, basically a god, decided that the plebs should build him a pyramid just because. And the plebs had to obey. The pharaoh was a kind of big shot capitalist oligarg of his time and the plebs were the average poor little people. Socialism is all about raising up the little folks who maybe were born into a low class or something. Although I'm anti-relgious, Jesus is said to have been a socialist.

Even if capitalism was somehow "natural", that doesn't mean it's benign. Lot's of not so benign things in nature.
 
Even if capitalism was somehow "natural", that doesn't mean it's benign. Lot's of not so benign things in nature.
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nobody said it was benign. Humans are naturally not benign, so neither is communism or socialism. People will always find a way to be nasty to each other.
 
Doomsdayprepper69 said:
nobody said it was benign. Humans are naturally not benign, so neither is communism or socialism. People will always find a way to be nasty to each other.
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and competition is required to keep people's assholism in check, a company cannot charge unacceptable prices or pay its workers like absolute shit when the rivaling company does ask for fair prices and gives its employees a fair wage
 
I think 'governing sciences' (not sure what the official term is for the knowledge we base the way we lead countries etc.) should look into other fields of science. We are able to put dudes on the moon and send satellites next to Pluto but aren't able to organise living in a country in a way that isn't full of total douchbaggery one way or another.
 
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