How excited are you for Fallout 4?
- Thread starter Gnarles Bronson
- Start date
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
No one is telling you not to be excited. Some of us just aren't excited about it.
To me it looks promising. The ability to create weapons with items that were previously just vendor trash, bullet time instead of VATs, armor in sections rather than just head and body, the abbility to actually not just create your own house but your own small town, the ability to customize your weapons.
If you expect to play a game like Fallout 1 or 2, you are ALWAYS gonna be dissapointed, because Bethesda doesnt make Isometric RPGs, they make open world sandbox games with RPG elements. But I believe this will be as good if not better than Fallout New Vegas. Assuming they keep all the features that game introduced. You see a glass as half empty (maybe even less than that), I see it as half full.
If you expect to play a game like Fallout 1 or 2, you are ALWAYS gonna be dissapointed, because Bethesda doesnt make Isometric RPGs, they make open world sandbox games with RPG elements. But I believe this will be as good if not better than Fallout New Vegas. Assuming they keep all the features that game introduced. You see a glass as half empty (maybe even less than that), I see it as half full.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Nobody is asking for turn based isometric, if you think that's what people have issues with in FO4 then maybe you should actually read what we are saying.
Ok, recap me: Whats wrong with Fallout 4. No, "Bethesda is making it" is not a viable answer. Neither is "Obsidian isn't making it".
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
What's wrong with Fallout 4:
-Dumbed Down dialogue System that reduces all conversatiosn to only 4 options at a time. Furthermore the dialogue choices are summarized in 2 words so you don't even knwo what you are saying which makes actual character build irrelevant and indicates very little focus on the Pacifist options thus they'll probably be as atrociously written and limited as in FO3.
-Complete scrapping of the Skill system in favor of a generic perk tree, which again, means character build will only be focused on combat and the alternate solutions to quests and dialogue interactions will be very limited as skill checks are no longer a thing.
-Immortal NPCs and companios, this means that the questline is gonna be lineal again, which completely goes against their claims of "player freedom" as important as they'll be removing any kind of branching storyline.
-Lazy recycle of the same factions they recycled in FO3 evidenced by the BOS being there again and the raiders being all genericly called "raider" without any kind of faction attached to them.
-The claims by TOdd Howard that what makes Fallout special is killing people to 50's music, which just intensifies the previous points as it's obvious that's the only thing they are even giving a fuck about.
-Dumbed Down dialogue System that reduces all conversatiosn to only 4 options at a time. Furthermore the dialogue choices are summarized in 2 words so you don't even knwo what you are saying which makes actual character build irrelevant and indicates very little focus on the Pacifist options thus they'll probably be as atrociously written and limited as in FO3.
-Complete scrapping of the Skill system in favor of a generic perk tree, which again, means character build will only be focused on combat and the alternate solutions to quests and dialogue interactions will be very limited as skill checks are no longer a thing.
-Immortal NPCs and companios, this means that the questline is gonna be lineal again, which completely goes against their claims of "player freedom" as important as they'll be removing any kind of branching storyline.
-Lazy recycle of the same factions they recycled in FO3 evidenced by the BOS being there again and the raiders being all genericly called "raider" without any kind of faction attached to them.
-The claims by TOdd Howard that what makes Fallout special is killing people to 50's music, which just intensifies the previous points as it's obvious that's the only thing they are even giving a fuck about.
Well, for immortal NPCs and Companions, this is probably just in normal mode. Who is to say there wont be a hardcore mode? And how does some quest essential NPCs not being killable make the questlines linear?
And while I understand why people would be upset about the lack of a skill system, perk trees make me feel like what I do in the world and how i play will actually help me (for example, I liked how in Skyrim the more you used a One Handed weapon, the more skilled you became with it.) I like feeling like my character's getting stronger in real time. It may not be like the old Fallout, but, in my opinion, its better.
Yeah, I agree, the dialogue is dumbed down.
Still, these arent game breakers for me.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
"How does NPCs being unkillable make it lineal" Are you actually ask that? Repeat with me UNKILLABLE NPCS, that means you are gonna be put down a straight path for the sake of the plot they want to tell, like in 3. You couldn't even tell dad James off, and if you tried to kill him he would just get back up like nothing continuing the main quest like usual. Thus a lineal quest line.
Also Unkillable companions removes any strategy or tension while having them. Even FO3 had killable companions and now 4 has immortal ones because people felt that having to be careful and good at th game so your companions didn't croak was "immurshunz breaking".
And well, the dialogue and skills systems are integral to Fallout, with them removed plus a lineal questline it just becomes a generic Post Apoc shooter. New Vegas was a lot of steps forward in making FPS Fallout work, but Fo4 seems to have mostly ignored what they accomplished.
Also Unkillable companions removes any strategy or tension while having them. Even FO3 had killable companions and now 4 has immortal ones because people felt that having to be careful and good at th game so your companions didn't croak was "immurshunz breaking".
And well, the dialogue and skills systems are integral to Fallout, with them removed plus a lineal questline it just becomes a generic Post Apoc shooter. New Vegas was a lot of steps forward in making FPS Fallout work, but Fo4 seems to have mostly ignored what they accomplished.
In my opinion, at least in terms of skill, you should be able to actually get better by actually doing the activity. Use guns a lot, you get better at using guns. It gives you a sense of progress that leveling up and simply allocating points to a skill doesnt. The old system may have worked in Fallout 1 and 2 but thats because you didnt have much control of the combat. Your success depended on what skills you put points in, and you had to hope you got the right outcome. With the FPS version of Fallout, you have more control, even with low stats if you were skilled enough you could still find a way to defeat an enemy. It may be hard at first using Guns when you have nearly no skill in them, but the more you use them, the better you get, and the more viable they are.
I also liked how Intelligence is no longer the end all be all SPECIAL stat, and now nearly all of them have a point again. I have an assumption that a high Luck will make random encounters with dangerous creatures like Deathclaws much rarer, and helpful items (ammo, stimpaks, etc) will appear more often.
Also, Im not sure, but I think the dog can actually be named (Bethesda just decided to name their dog "Dogmeat").
I have a theory that the New England Brotherhood of Steel is a combination of the Western Brotherhood/ Eastern Brotherhood Outcasts (not really caring about others, purely focused on finding technology) and Lyon's Brotherhood (willing to recruit Wastelanders that have proven their worth, because they are possibly even smaller than Lyon's Brotherhood's "pure" member count) .
I hope they have "tweakable hardcore mode" where you can set what Hardcore option you want. For example, you can just enable the "Killable Companions" part and nothing else if you like. You can make it so you have to eat and drink and sleep, but ammo doesnt weigh anything and stimpaks still work instantly, but a Doctor or Doctor Bag is needed to repair damage to limbs. And so on.
I also liked how Intelligence is no longer the end all be all SPECIAL stat, and now nearly all of them have a point again. I have an assumption that a high Luck will make random encounters with dangerous creatures like Deathclaws much rarer, and helpful items (ammo, stimpaks, etc) will appear more often.
Also, Im not sure, but I think the dog can actually be named (Bethesda just decided to name their dog "Dogmeat").
I have a theory that the New England Brotherhood of Steel is a combination of the Western Brotherhood/ Eastern Brotherhood Outcasts (not really caring about others, purely focused on finding technology) and Lyon's Brotherhood (willing to recruit Wastelanders that have proven their worth, because they are possibly even smaller than Lyon's Brotherhood's "pure" member count) .
I hope they have "tweakable hardcore mode" where you can set what Hardcore option you want. For example, you can just enable the "Killable Companions" part and nothing else if you like. You can make it so you have to eat and drink and sleep, but ammo doesnt weigh anything and stimpaks still work instantly, but a Doctor or Doctor Bag is needed to repair damage to limbs. And so on.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
You want to grind a skill to increase it alaa Skyrim? No thanks, that was already bad enough in that game to have it on Fallout.
Intelligence the end all be all? It was hardly that, now it's been turned into a Dump stat, Luck has been turned in just a cooldown timer for the magic "Critical Button".
Really the changes woul be fine if Fallout was exclusively combat oriented, alas it's not. Nothing has been gained by dumbing down stats and gutting the skills systems, the game just got turned into a generic FPS in terms of mechanics.
Intelligence the end all be all? It was hardly that, now it's been turned into a Dump stat, Luck has been turned in just a cooldown timer for the magic "Critical Button".
Really the changes woul be fine if Fallout was exclusively combat oriented, alas it's not. Nothing has been gained by dumbing down stats and gutting the skills systems, the game just got turned into a generic FPS in terms of mechanics.
I think you confuse grinding with earning. I want to EARN and WORK for my Gun skill. Not allocate points to it.
And we only seen the combat, we have no idea what the story or speech gameplay will be like. Right now we are judging the cake before its even finished cooking.
And as for Intelligence, you NEEDED it in past games if you wanted to get the most out of your Skill Points. Otherwise you would be very limited.
Wolfehunter
First time out of the vault
Yes but not like today. I grew up with those brands. For me at that time they where AAA with what was available then. PC gaming was different then than it is now. Mentality to strive for better games by devs was amazing with the limitation of hardware. Now its all changed. Now its quantity over quality. Multiplaform crap. console port crap for pc markets. Sucks.
For the 70s it was table top dice pen and paper
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I think you are confusing earning with repetitive busy work.
And we have already seen the dialogue, it's a cross with four vaguely decribed options and there are no skills. THat's enoughto know it's gonna be extremely limited.
If someone is playing Fallout as a min maxer then they needed Int,if you were just playing a character you could disregard it if you were going for other paths, in the originals AG was one of the most important stats as it gave you more AP per turn.
Reaper Shackal
King of the Dominion
I have a feeling they aren't even going Skyrim here.
It looks to me like everything will be perk based, which would be in tune to this casualization scheme Bethesda is pulling.
It looks to me like everything will be perk based, which would be in tune to this casualization scheme Bethesda is pulling.
And what's wrong with casualization? It's not like it's going to kill the series if more and more people can play it without feeling overwhelmed -- in point of fact, that can only help it so long as they don't go too far. I don't think they've done that yet.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
What's wrong with casualization? Are you even serious?
They haven't gone too far? They just gutted the entire Skill system and reduced dialogue to four choices at a time....
They haven't gone too far? They just gutted the entire Skill system and reduced dialogue to four choices at a time....
Reaper Shackal
King of the Dominion
This.
Casualization is ruining games, and the sheeple let it happen. Don't know you enough to declare you a sheeple SMB, but I get the feeling you may drift to that crowd.
True gamers should be against casualization. Causualization is why the mobile market is working and why microtransactions, crap DLC, and pre orders are still making profit.
Casualization is why games like CoD and Assassins Creed are being released yearly. The lowest common denominator has become people who don't actually give a crap about the games apart from "Lol I get to blow up and shoot things! What's this story thing you're complaining about? I'm going to hate you for complaining!". Basically people who game for the quick thrills and to be in the cool crowd. These are the people who don't give a crap about RPG elements like skills, and these are the people causing it to be cut.
Sit on that for a while.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I don't use words like sheeple, but the problem with casualization is that it enforces the worst design dcisions of the past generation. The more you casualize a game the more it's identity gets dilluted, the dumber the player base gets and the less likely we are to get actually well designed and challenging games. Everything starts to blur together into a mess of sameness. It's like saying "Whats wrong with all movies turnning into popcorn block busters?".
Reaper Shackal
King of the Dominion
Exactly.
I only use the word sheeple as I'm pretty damn tired of people just blindly accepting this like it's okay.