How excited are you for Fallout 4?

Walpknut said:
Not really the same, if all Perks become just percentage increases in combat then that doesn't solve the issue with the dialogue system and alternate quest solving. Furthermore then that means Perks are gonna be boring as crap.
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Isn't it? You're going to have to explain the difference between [Speech 75] and [Speech LEVEL 7], because other than a mechanical difference in skill progression I don't really see it. If you're getting a perk each level instead of a perk every two levels and the level cap remains where it is in New Vegas, your character's probably going to be just as powerful as he was going to be at that point in Vegas. Hell, it might be even better than that if the perk ranks are all stat locked. And they're obviously going to leave the ordinary perks in the game, perks worked in Skyrim and if this is going to be Skyrim with guns. . . well, 2+2.

You've still got your concerns with the dialogue wheel (and so do I) but I don't really see how the perks, the thing I was talking about, have anything to do with it.
 
Am I excited? Sorta. I do wanna explore and try our the crafting and settlement building. I really dislike the dialog wheel, which seems to be super simple from the looks of it. The Brotherhood and Super Mutants (who still look nothing like the Vault 87 ones) are yet again returning. At this point, they might as well just throw in the Enclave for the hell of it at this rate.
 
ChildServices said:
Walpknut said:
Not really the same, if all Perks become just percentage increases in combat then that doesn't solve the issue with the dialogue system and alternate quest solving. Furthermore then that means Perks are gonna be boring as crap.
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Isn't it? You're going to have to explain the difference between [Speech 75] and [Speech LEVEL 7], because other than a mechanical difference in skill progression I don't really see it. If you're getting a perk each level instead of a perk every two levels and the level cap remains where it is in New Vegas, your character's probably going to be just as powerful as he was going to be at that point in Vegas. Hell, it might be even better than that if the perk ranks are all stat locked. And they're obviously going to leave the ordinary perks in the game, perks worked in Skyrim and if this is going to be Skyrim with guns. . . well, 2+2.

You've still got your concerns with the dialogue wheel (and so do I) but I don't really see how the perks, the thing I was talking about, have anything to do with it.
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THe difference is that now all dalogue skill options are gonna be Percentages of "Charming" someone as explained by the decription of Charisma. They already have only 4 options at a time so I doubt they are gonna make perks have special effects in dialogue. All perks are gonna probably do in dialogue is "+1% to charm" or some other thing. Also if all the perks are just "Science rank X" then that means no perks like Meltdown, Cowboy, Slayer, etc. Combining both systems just limits both, so you either choose lineal increases or special perks, you won't be able to build up secondary skills you might want to invest a little on when not acquiring perks. All you are doing is getting generic FPS boosts every level.
 
I still dont see why everyone ignored my idea of a possible "Hardcore" checklist that lets you customize your experiences, like, for example, making NPCs mortal.

Or is it some sort of entitlement of "if they have to be mortal for me they have to be mortal for everyone".
 
Walpknut said:
THe difference is that now all dalogue skill options are gonna be Percentages of "Charming" someone as explained by the decription of Charisma. They already have only 4 options at a time so I doubt they are gonna make perks have special effects in dialogue. All perks are gonna probably do in dialogue is "+1% to charm" or some other thing. Also if all the perks are just "Science rank X" then that means no perks like Meltdown, Cowboy, Slayer, etc. Combining both systems just limits both, so you either choose lineal increases or special perks, you won't be able to build up secondary skills you might want to invest a little on when not acquiring perks. All you are doing is getting generic FPS boosts every level.
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There's no way they're going to dump ordinary perks entirely. Their fanbase are basically skyrimbabbies at this point, and as it turns out, perks were in skyrim. I never said "all of the perks are going to just be science rank x". You made that up. We can guess that's not actually what they're doing since there's a big damn poster with the icons of a bunch of perks from FO3/NV on it that we see in the trailer.
 
Also, just to point out, I never felt I had to "grind" in Skyrim. Everything came naturally to me. Of course, you may be confusing "grinding" with "training". Of course, I had to do a lot of practice smithing to get better. Thats how you get better. The only people who need to grind are those who are trying to get to Level 81, which, to be honest, unless you are min maxing you really shouldnt care about, especially with Dragonborn where you can reassign perk points. Me, I only cared about Light Armor, One Handed, Restoration, Alteration (just for the Magical Resistance perks), and Smithing.
 
Repeatedly doing a boring action is the definition of grinding.

Also, if the perks have replaced skills, does that mean more then 1 perk at a time? or will you just level up to get 1 Perk like a MP FPS? Maybe that's why the level cap is so high from the beginning. Instead of actually buildign and specing your character you will just playing with the same dude you started out with but with a rather boring bonus every level. Just like in Skyrim I guess. Perks in that game were abslutely boring Percentage increases.
 
If you noticed in Fallout 3, most of the beginning perks upped certain skills.
Maybe they're taking that to a whole new and forced level... God damn it.
 
Walpknut said:
Repeatedly doing a boring action is the definition of grinding.

Also, if the perks have replaced skills, does that mean more then 1 perk at a time? or will you just level up to get 1 Perk like a MP FPS? Maybe that's why the level cap is so high from the beginning. Instead of actually buildign and specing your character you will just playing with the same dude you started out with but with a rather boring bonus every level. Just like in Skyrim I guess. Perks in that game were abslutely boring Percentage increases.
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As opposed to assigning a varying number of skill points to a skill, which you are FORCED to do, and to choose a perk right then and there instead of coming back later? That was my problem with Fallout 3 and New Vegas, you had no control of when you leveled up. I hate lack of control, of freedom. Maybe that means I'm a shitty gamer. But I wished there was a system similar to Oblivion where you leveled up when you went to a bed or something.
 
Assigning points to a skill when you level up, why would you be leveling up if you are not putting skill points? Of course you had control over when you leveled up, you had to complete quests or engagin in combat to level up, if you didn't want to level up you just avoided combat or didn't do any quests, nothing really forced you into doing that if you didn't want to level up (which why would you be AVOIDING level up on an rpg?). I don't even get your complaint there, you want to be able to level up on command, yet you prefer having to engage in a repetitive action to up skills.....
 
Walpknut said:
Assigning points to a skill when you level up, why would you be leveling up if you are not putting skill points? Of course you had control over when you leveled up, you had to complete quests or engagin in combat to level up, if you didn't want to level up you just avoided combat or didn't do any quests, nothing really forced you into doing that if you didn't want to level up (which why would you be AVOIDING level up on an rpg?). I don't even get your complaint there, you want to be able to level up on command, yet you prefer having to engage in a repetitive action to up skills.....
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What i mean is what if i decide i DONT want to assign the skill points just yet. Like, maybe I want to wait a bit, play some more and evaluate what points I want to put there. In fact....couldnt you do this in the original 2 Fallouts (i believe you had to click on the level tab to actually assign skillpoints, instead of it coming up automatically out of combat like in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.)
 
Why would you postpone skill point allocation? What would be the point in that? I agree with the Perk selection not being allowed to be postponed being annoying and that it should be skippable if you aren't, but Skill points? Why would you want to level up and get nothing from it?

Also levelign up from doing quests feels more organic than stopping on a town and making 200 daggers so you can level up smithing, or having to get hit over and over to level up Armor.
 
Walpknut said:
Why would you postpone skill point allocation? What would be the point in that? I agree with the Perk selection not being allowed to be postponed being annoying and that it should be skippable if you aren't, but Skill points? Why would you want to level up and get nothing from it?

Also levelign up from doing quests feels more organic than stopping on a town and making 200 daggers so you can level up smithing, or having to get hit over and over to level up Armor.
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I think you miss the point. in Obvlivion, you didnt postpone the skill points, you postponed leveling up. It gave you the option of playing through the entire game on just level 1, and that was good, because the level scalling on that game was HORRIBLE. Seriously, you should feel STRONGER the more you level up, not weaker. Which is why i LOATHED Lonesome Road Deathclaws. Making normal enemies practically have more health than "bosses" is very cheap way to make things difficult. Level 50 against them should feel like a challenge, but not tedious. Instead, I feel like im back to being level 1.
 
One thing I'd change about the levelling system in future Fallout games is to copy the system in Morrowind where how much your stat points were worth each level would depend on what skills you'd used to gain that level. So if I mostly used skills that relied on agility or strength, then the stat points I allocated on that level would be worth twice as much towards those stats (three times as much iirc if it was a primary statistic for my class)
I'd do the same thing but obviously with your skills instead of stats. For example if I used lockpick a bunch that level it'd cost half as much to put points into it, and a third as much if it was tagged.

I think it's a pretty decent alternative to the shitty "level your skills as you use them" system that exists in Skyrim where my Dunmer swordsman would have to repeatedly cast a stupid spell that he shouldn't even know how to cast in the first place, just so he can level up.
Technically I think this system of levelling your skills as you used them did exist in Oblivion/Morrowind, but its relationship to actually levelling up your character was vastly different. Skyrim I guess had the exact same system but it used a perk tree and it was classless, so each "skill" was technically worth less to your character than it was in previous games. In order to level up in Morrowind you had to level up your class skills, but obviously there are no class skills in Skyrim so. . .
 
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