How "retro" was Fallout intended to be?

I

Indianajoneszilla

First time out of the vault
This is kind of in response to the songs in New Vegas and Fallout 3- in Fallout 1 and 2, the parallels with the American 20th century experience are there, with laser weapons, types of cars, and some very faded bill boards, but other than that there isn't much connection to the Old World, and the actual society of America before the Great War is left pretty ambiguous. But then in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, we have an actual image of the 50's homestyle in 2077, as well as music records of Frank Sinatra and the Andrews sisters- people who, should of all things, had been past their prime for almost 100 years. So I know Fallout is supposed to show an America that never evolved past the 50's mentality, but to WHAT extent? Were these records just around because the US never grew tired of them? Was "new" music produced in the style of 40's swing, and these tapes were kept around for reference? Or, the most drastic idea, were all of these singers born much later (around 2000 in Fallout) and thus had their peaks and primes around 2077?
But my overarching question is: how 50's-esque were the original Fallouts trying to be? And did New Vegas and 3 take that theme too far?
 
Pretty sure it was never meaned to be as retro as Fallout 3 made it. Me personally, before Fo3 was released, I did never thought of it like that, with all the 50s music around and such. It had all these style elements, but in the same time it also had some 80s stuff, like metal armor with spikes on the shoulder plates.
 
The fifties music in Fallout New Vegas gave the game a certain "vibe" for me. Definately a different vibe than Fallouts 1 and 2, but I very much liked the New Vegas soundtrack. To me, I guess those songs are an important part of the game - even though others mute the radio as soon as they start the game. I never gave it much thought beyond that though.
 
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A very good question indeed.
Like you said, the first two games gave us little information on what the world was like before the great war, leaving us to make our interpretations, and personally I rather liked that.
It seemed to fit the theme more, the 'Old World' being sort of the 'lost civilization' in Fallout, with only scraps and remnants here and there. Even the Enclave had a rather warped idea of what it was like, partly because of their own limited view.

And yes, Fallout 3, and in part Fallout New Vegas took the theme to far (though I don't blame Obsidian, they simply went along the route Bethesda had set out), with this obsession about the Great War, the Anchorage Reclamation, some people acting like they are in the 50s (well at least the idealized version of it), Ghoulified Chinese soldiers, as if it only happened years ago.

I found it rather annoying sometimes as Fallout 1 and 2 had given me the idea that the world had moved on since, people remembered there was a nuclear war that had a severe impact on the world but for the rest they did not care much about it or what it was fought for as they had other priorities.
And I get the feeling Bethesda keeps pushing on it and the 50s references/aesthetics as if that is what Fallout is about. (well that, the BOS, the Enclave, Super Mutants)
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
I found it rather annoying sometimes as Fallout 1 and 2 had given me the idea that the world had moved on since, people remembered there was a nuclear war that had a severe impact on the world but for the rest they did not care much about it or what it was fought for as they had other priorities.
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Well, FNV tried something in that vein too. And they attempted it, if you ask me. After all, there's a whole other conflict to care about...


As for aesthetics, FO3 really did push it a bit too far. I personally don't mind the fact that pre-War world was 50s looking, there were various hints to similar aesthetic in the originals, but the obvious problem with music and overall post-War obsession with the pre-War looks in various corners of the wastes are very problematic.
And yeah, I hate the fact that 80s influence, which was present in the originals too, was overlooked.
 
FNV tried to work with the style of FO1 and FO2, but also with FO3. Though, if you ask me, yes, FO3 took it too far. I always considered the Pre-War era to be a mixed world. From all years. But oh no! Apparently, the World was stuck in a loop.
 
I always tough that the old world were heavilyx2 influenced by the 50s culture but it didn't stuck in a loop. FO3 took it too far, but well... it fits Fallout just...don't overdo it. Ok Beth?
 
I like the Retro-Futurism of Fallout with Pre-War Fallout being the future that people in the 50's envisioned. I suppose Bethesda might have gone a little far but I didn't mind. Although they should always keep in mind that is how the world was not how it is now. It is kind of weird that the music they have is all over 100 years old but we do know new music was recorded too such as songs by Vera Keyes. I guess the only music they had in GNR that survived was really old but the real reason is Bethesda didn't want to hire people to record new music to use in the game. It is strange that none of the music on GNR is Rock & Roll, all of it is Swing or Jazz.
 
The soundtracks of Fallout 1 and 2 are very un-retro. The music accompanying the Khans or Vault City. So no, it was not meant to be a back-to-the-50s-extravaganza that FO3 makes it out to be.
 
Fallout certainly wasn't all that retro. Pretty noone in the 50's would have put mohawked faces on the corners of houses.
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Akratus said:
Personally I count Fallout 3 as being outside of my headcanon. To me it's just: "Adventures in radland."
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It used to be like that for me, but spending enough time in "Let's Fix it: Fallout 3" threads and other similar DIY attempts, I have devised my own sort of Fallout 3, which is first and foremost called Fallout: Capital Wasteland, and is, in its skeletal form, based on the Fallout 3 by Beth, but widened further by the works and thoughts of many people who went through NMA and gave their opinion, and makes some sense, if anything.
 
Other than passing mentions, the past of the Fallout Universe was supposed to be mostly forgotten and used only as a plot device when needed.
 
The 50's styling has always been there,but it was a different kind of 50's styling and it was a lot more subtle.

The 50's Retro style in the first two games felt like 50's evolved, if that makes sense, it seemed like what the future would actually be like if culture remained somewhat stuck in the 50's.

Like someone else said, the Old World was a "Lost Civilization" of sorts, similar to the Ancient Civilization tropes in Fantasy settings (Dungeons, Ruins,Temples etc.) and I really liked that effect, it added a whole new layer on to the setting.

Fallout 1 and 2 had an "Art Deco" 50's style to it, similar to Rapture in the Bioshock games, and Fo3 and FNV had an "American Dream"/"World of Tomorrow" 50's style to it.

I do like what they tried to do with the Old World in Fallout:New Vegas, but I think the damage to the atmosphere and setting after Fo3 is irreparable now.


Hassknecht said:
Fallout certainly wasn't all that retro. Pretty noone in the 50's would have put mohawked faces on the corners of houses.
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That's actually 40's/50's styled,surprisingly.

Look up "Art Deco"
 
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I think the problem stems from the fact that Bethesda's Fallout 3 (versus say traditional Fallout 3 (Van Buren) tried to make a game about the perpetual 50's (which ironically none of the music in the game is even from the 1950's...most of the titles are late 40's if I remember correctly), and went so overboard into creating something which would sit right in a post nuclear Doctor Strangelove (yes I know it was released in '64) game that it fully ignores the fact that a nuclear war happened over 200 years previous yet the citizenry of D.C. prefer to live in burnt out husks of buildings and pretty much act as though the war was yesterday and hell for reasons totally unexplained a majority of major cities(up to and including the Capitol Dome) are still standing.
 
The music bit is the most annoying for me. I really miss the great ambient tracks from Fallouts 1&2. It was alright that you could switch between radio channels, but even then the songs tend to repeat.
 
What I always thought of (in response to people just continuing to live like the 50's) was that there are a lot of people rediscovering the culture in Fallout once they leave vaults or after they've looted areas. So it's not really a surprise that people would try to mimic what things they could in reference to their experiences. I've never had that much of an interest in trying to decipher all the origins because I've just accepted the art-deco style and the interpretations we have now.

I don't believe it was supposed to be as retro as it is now; but the original games also didn't rely primarily on FPS and TPS perspectives, so they had to "sex it up" essentially.
 
I don't think that the developer tried to limit themselves to certain decade. Rather looking for a unique and easily distinguishable style, that would contrast the bleak reality of the post apocalyptic world as a reminder of what was lost. The 50s music optimism lend itself perfectly to that theme, but it was never about the 50s time period per se, you can sketch outside the lines as long as you keep to theme, which they used to subtly reinforce the narrative in visual and auditory cues.

I think that @AlphaPromethean nailed the style of the original FO in his previous post. As for the OP, I agree that FO3 and FO:NV followed a slightly different path than the originals, but it important to note that they were different themes. While FO1 was a prelude of a sort, setting the tone for post apocalyptic wasteland trying to convey a lonely and desperate clinging to existence, FO2 was noticeably different and more about rebuilding the society and FO:NV continued where it left over with a frontier kind of scenario.

Also considering that FO:NV was set in New Vegas the FO2 New Reno equivalent, I don't think that they went over board at all.
 
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Gaspard said:
The music bit is the most annoying for me. I really miss the great ambient tracks from Fallouts 1&2. It was alright that you could switch between radio channels, but even then the songs tend to repeat.
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I HATED the music part in FO3 and FNV. Ironically, I liked the song themselves. How's that possible?

While I think that the songs played on radio stations are superb themselves, having two games stuck, and therefore having a whole game world stuck, in what is seemingly a musical creativity limbo revolving around 50ish music is super annoying and, guess what, immersion breaking. That same immersion Bethesda was constantly yelling about, advertising it and making none if it true.

What, only 50s (or whatever) years vinyls survived the war? Only that stuff was reprinted and repressed through and through? The world never moved on?
I really hated that, and I often find myself pointing out that problem on these boards.

FNV somewhat remedied that problem by introducing music made in wasteland, by wastelanders, for wastelanders - but it's still far from fixing the problem, since at the same time, it added weight to the original problem we have here.
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter, but turning on the radio almost makes you wish for another nuclear holocaust. This time, maybe all pre-War music would be destroyed, and the world would try to make some sense and move on...but I doubt it.
 
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The radio stations using such dated music doesn't bother me all that much. It's a way of harkening back to the intros of the classics, and I get that, for a lot of people, an ambient soundtrack wouldn't lend itself well to the tone of immediacy created (demanded?) by a first-person perspective and the potential for realtime ambushes.

They could have done up an entirely new "old" soundtrack for the game, but that would have required an entire budget on its own and it couldn't have been any more effective at evoking a sense of ruined nostalgia than the tracks they licensed (and may even have been less effective, considering that nostalgia hinges on familiarity). I take the music, like so much else in the games, to be a representative abstraction. I usually just switch off the radio when I'm playing New Vegas and let that ambient original-series goodness shine through, anyway.
 
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