Just to remind you, you're arguing with someone who believes that a movie with the exact same tone of Dirty Dancing could be a Sequel to a movie with the tone of Halloween. As long it plays in the same universe ...
I don't understand complaints about Beth's take on pre-war society
- Thread starter Delbert
- Start date
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Umm... if it continued the same story or furthered the theme it can be an actual sequel. If it doesn't continue the story and it has a different theme then it's not a sequel. Anything else technically goes.
So, if it continues a story let us say ...a peach! Could be a Sequel to a comic book for example! Don't people know what actually tone means? And why it matters?
Would you believe that this scene
is equal to this one?
Or do they have a completely different tone? Like the first beeing a comedy and the second a serious horror movie? Those kind of things matter. That's why a movie with the tone of Space Balls can never ever be the Sequel to an Alien horror movie. Even if Ridley Scott, Walter Hill or the President of the United States would call it that.
- I am not hating on Spaceballs, I actually love the movie and I think it is a really great classic.
Just because a studio or who ever would eventually say that something is a Sequel, doesn't mean it's the truth.
Would you believe that this scene
is equal to this one?
Or do they have a completely different tone? Like the first beeing a comedy and the second a serious horror movie? Those kind of things matter. That's why a movie with the tone of Space Balls can never ever be the Sequel to an Alien horror movie. Even if Ridley Scott, Walter Hill or the President of the United States would call it that.
- I am not hating on Spaceballs, I actually love the movie and I think it is a really great classic.
Just because a studio or who ever would eventually say that something is a Sequel, doesn't mean it's the truth.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
IT CAN BE A SEQUEL IF IT FITS THE DEFINITION! No matter what you say and what sentimental, tone stuff you pull up it can still be a sequel. I can't believe we're still arguing this, if a studio says it's a sequel and it fit's the rules then it is a bloody sequel, no matter what you say so.
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No it can't 
Dr Fallout
Centurion
No it can't
Yes it can.
Look, are you powerful and influential? NO, so stop making your own definition.
You're one is spouting Wikipedia, as like that means something.
Why is that any kind of standard that I sould aphold in this case? Because you say so? I have to question anyones sanity who feels that a movie with the tone of space balls could be seriously declared as a Sequel to something like Alien.
Such transitions in movies for example is almost never done, not from one movie to the next, such a heavy shift in tone is rather rare with Sequels - like going from serious to comedy, or from horror to love story etc.
Terminator 2 was not created as love romance with Linda Hamilton fucking Arnold Schwarzeneger in a love triangle with Robert Patrick, or Halloween 2 not as comedy, Alien(s) 2 not as drama. Is that so hard to swallow? Alien vs. Predator could never work as Sequel to any of the Alien movies. No matter how much any studio would try to sell that - if a studio would be so crazy to do that. It is the nature of creative work that definitions are not 100% clear, yes this isn't math or physics. But that doesn't mean that you should do everything just because you can. Or that it would actually be a real Sequel only because there is a 2 or 3 at the end of its name. I always thought that this is a kind of basic understanding as far as creative work goes. You don't start to suddenly introduce the Force, Han Solo and Light Sabers in to Lord of the Rings for example making it a part of the story. Or throwing Gandalf on Arrakis in Dune. Not every change of a setting is a correct one. Unless you don't give a shit about the setting.
Again, just because it can be sold as such, doesn't mean that it's true.
Why is that any kind of standard that I sould aphold in this case? Because you say so? I have to question anyones sanity who feels that a movie with the tone of space balls could be seriously declared as a Sequel to something like Alien.
Such transitions in movies for example is almost never done, not from one movie to the next, such a heavy shift in tone is rather rare with Sequels - like going from serious to comedy, or from horror to love story etc.
Terminator 2 was not created as love romance with Linda Hamilton fucking Arnold Schwarzeneger in a love triangle with Robert Patrick, or Halloween 2 not as comedy, Alien(s) 2 not as drama. Is that so hard to swallow? Alien vs. Predator could never work as Sequel to any of the Alien movies. No matter how much any studio would try to sell that - if a studio would be so crazy to do that. It is the nature of creative work that definitions are not 100% clear, yes this isn't math or physics. But that doesn't mean that you should do everything just because you can. Or that it would actually be a real Sequel only because there is a 2 or 3 at the end of its name. I always thought that this is a kind of basic understanding as far as creative work goes. You don't start to suddenly introduce the Force, Han Solo and Light Sabers in to Lord of the Rings for example making it a part of the story. Or throwing Gandalf on Arrakis in Dune. Not every change of a setting is a correct one. Unless you don't give a shit about the setting.
Again, just because it can be sold as such, doesn't mean that it's true.
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Battlecross
Banned
No it can't
You should just accept that you're incorrect here.
So if a movie company sells Spaceballs as Sequel to Alien or Dirty Dancing to Halloween you would accept that as true Sequel? Are you brain damaged or something?
Battlecross
Banned
We've already gone in circles multiple times on this and I'm wondering about how low your IQ might be now. Pretty much everyone has told you that you're incorrect yet you remain as stubborn as ever. Just give it up, I'm not doing this idiotic back and forth again.
Your problem, not mine. All I see is a few people that don't give a shit if a setting stays true to it self or not.
Battlecross
Banned
Again you don't seem to understand the issue here. A sequel doesn't have to stay "true" to the previous ones to be a sequel regardless of what you believe. You even posted a preposterous "Alien Vs. Predator can't be a sequel to Alien" when it absolutely could be. Again, a comic book can be a sequel to a TV show. A video game can be a sequel to a book. Etc. into infinity. I'm done talking to the brick wall that is you on this, someone else can continue running in pointless circles with you if they wish.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
I have to agree with Battlecross here. Crni, just say this and be done with it. It can be a sequel but NOT a good one. There, done! You get what you want and are still correct. What you're doing now is blind stuborness.
But from my point of view The Jedie are evil ... I mean you are wrong.
Seriously, just admit that an apple can never be a Sequel to movie, even if the studio sells you the fruit as sequel to their movie, and we will be done with it as well.
Seriously, just admit that an apple can never be a Sequel to movie, even if the studio sells you the fruit as sequel to their movie, and we will be done with it as well.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Yes it does ~or it's something else. That's what spin-offs are for. FO3 is a spin-off of FOBOS by all appearances and gameplay. It could pass for a FOBOS 2. It could not pass for a Fallout 3.
Titles can share an IP and not be sequels. There are many games using the Warhammerr IP, but 'Space Marine' is not 'Dawn of War 3'; and no DoW3 would (or should) be a suitable SpaceMarine 2.
I cannot imagine a spacemarine fan seeing a Dawn of War title, and them assuming they could get more of the same [spacemarine] gameplay from it. That's absurd; (as absurd as seeing a Fallout 3 sequel and and assuming it's TES40k). The fact that Bethesda actually did that is unconscionable.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
God damn it. IF THE THING CONTINUES THE THEME OR STORY IT'S A SEQUEL!
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
The theme is irrelevant. They could have chucked the entire IP and kept the gameplay. Arcanum is a better Fallout game than FO3. Wasteland 2 is the best Fallout game to release in the last decade. ~And they know it. There is nothing in FO3 that I would seek out a Fallout series game for; it's TES reskinned with the least significant trappings of the Fallout IP. (And with a shocking about face in its priorities, and RPG precepts.)
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And how do you treat games that are completely defnied by their mechanics? (I mean this seriously now!) like Pong, Tetris or Pac Man? Those games have no story nor any real theme going on as they are made with a specific mechanic in mind which is the whole appeal of the game. And Tetris 2, with improved visuals, would have to be made with the same mechanics as like Tetris 1 and you can't just make a game like the Witcher for example and say, jup! That's now the Sequel! it's called Tetris 2!
You can not just seperate a mechanic, story or gameplay from a game and say the rest doesn't matter. With a game like Fallout the gameplay mechanics are at least as important like the setting and the choice of narrative. It's the sum of the parts.
Just as I can't just throw the Witcher into a setting like Mass Effect - while keeping the mechanics the same - as the Witcher as game is defined by playing Gerald of Rivia slaying monsters for money in a quasi-medieval setting not runing from planet to planet in a space craft.
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Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
And as we know... The setting for Fallout was arbitrarily decided later; the gameplay was the focus, and the combat system came first [afaik].
I would be very, very, surprised to hear that combat was the very first thought about fallout. It seems very clear to me, that besides alpha build, the first focus as far as design philosophy, was the pen and paper mechanics. As in, multiple endings for every quest, the world changes around you due to the choices you have made. Heck, there are people that WILL not talk to you anymore if you piss them off, and you can just suck it as far as the quest goes. Nevermind starting a fight, and so and so, just happened to get winged, jump in, die, and now that quest is gone forever. That's a fuck of a lot more believable then, no matter wheat choice I make, it doesn't matter, because it basically works out the same. Except of course the megaton quest that results in you getting a house, or possibly getting a house. And that is one of the most choice focused quests in the game......