I think Nuka World and Far Harbor were quite good.

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by GingerSwan, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. GingerSwan

    GingerSwan First time out of the vault

    Jul 31, 2015
    While I do like the base game (It's fun to explore, and I like settlement building), I don't like it for the reasons I love Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas. The RPG system went completely shit the bed, in exchange for a more linear FPS title. Todd Howard says that the game had some features they were testing (Why they couldn't just use a fucking focus group and make them sign an NDA is beyond me), and while not being overly pleased with it, I can accept the harsh truth.

    Now, Far Harbor and Nuka World show that Bethesda are still capable of making an RPG. Far Harbor had a great atmosphere, despite not feeling like it was Fallout, and had lots of skill checks all over the place. The writing was great, and there were several ways to resolve the main story. The voice acting of the protagonists was better, too. While some dialogue was a bit irritating ("oh my only memories are Oct 23rd 2077 durr hurr" specifically, throwing RP out the window), I overall enjoyed it much more than the base game.

    Nuka World, now that had a Fallout-style atmosphere. Specifically, the desert surrounding the park made me think of New Vegas, as did Dry Rock Gulch and the one Lucky 38-esque tower in the Galactic Zone. Some lore changes piss me off (Pre-War Enclave Armor for example), but there were lots of callbacks to earlier games (Sunset Sarsaparilla, Nuka Cola Quartz and Victory, Hubologists, Ghosts, etc...). I also enjoyed playing as a raider for a change, rather than them being copy-paste hostile mobs like the base game, and interacting with the various gangs.

    I see a lot of hate on here for Fallout 4, which is understandable, but the story DLC were good IMO.
  2. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    You complain about the lack of RP in one sentence, then praise Nuka World for allowing you to play a raider. What if you don't want to roleplay a raider and still play the dlc you paid for?
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Far Harbor, I would argue is on the level of tactics. By no means a Fallout Game, but inoffensive enough in itself that it doesn't actively bother me.

    It gets tons of praise for its alternate endings and skill checks, but when you compare it to, say for instance Fallout New Vegas DLC it is very underwhelming.

    I mean, Far Harbor had 3 repair checks and a medic check. That's not that great supposing that In Honest Hearts you get to make a Science/Medicine check before you even depart for Zion, Old World Blues has you making Intelligence/Science/Charisma checks in the introduction. A couple of skill checks scattered in the occasional side quest to stop people from complaining is, to be quite honest, not good enough. Skill Checks should be a vital part of how your character deals with situations, and should be something that aid you along all the way through your adventures, not a few one off checks here and there.

    As for the several ways to resolve the main story that you mentioned, to me it suffers from the classic Bethesda problem of only being temporary. In Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas how you interacted with various communities affect there future. For example, which family you helped in to power in New Reno can make the city turn in to a very different place, and even how you helped them in to power. Hell, there are tons of ones that don't seem immediately obvious(Both the Mrs Bishop Pregnancies for instance). In Fallout 4 it kinda feels like "So you made peace between The Children of Atom and Far Harbor. What happens to the island now?", and it almost feels as though the area only exists during the course of the game, and not after it.

    In addition to this, the endings that you can choose from seem somewhat underwhelming. Its either a matter of "Nuke a bunch of people, or make peace between two factions", and honestly while it does make for a fun decision and possible ending, the whole fate of an island depending on who you do and don't nuke doesn't seem like a valid ending.

    As for Nuka world, I disliked how they removed skill checks AGAIN. I mean yeah Far Harbor wasn't great with them, but it's better than nothing.

    The plot itself is stupid. I mean this isn't Elder Scrolls, your not supposed to be leader of a faction after 5 minutes. That's not what Fallout is. Fallout is about wandering the wastelands, going on adventures. That doesn't feel right with being a faction leader. A good leader should probably be y'know, actually leading the faction they are supposed to be leading, when really your more likely to just wander off for several months, leaving them leaderless, then come back and still be considered the Overboss.

    Also, what was the whole point in making the Theme Park have military grade security?, I mean I get they had that whole "Militarised-Nuka-Cola!" Explanation(Which was BS, why would Nuka Cola scientists be better at weapon developments than firms like West-Tek), but it kinda felt like that was shoehorned in so they could add Power Armor and a couple explosives.

    And each of the Raiders feels too much invested in one theme "We're the evil sadistic ones", "We're the ones obsessed with animals", "We're the ones who are only in this for the money". Like, theres no depth to it, they feel like they have no real motives or long-term gains, there just kinda there.

    In addition, every single quest feels very, "Kill-Loot-Return", like Kiddy Kingdom is "Kill a bunch of ghouls, then have a chance to talk down the bid bad boss" -Not too bad but generic and bland. Then you've got Dry Rock Gulch, which to be fair did let you reprogram the robots or talk out of doing there quests, so this one was ok, but the rest of the zones were entirely made up of Killing and Fetch Quests, with the only difference your character build having being whether you get an extra companion to help you for one of the zones.

    Lastly, they attempted to have consequences for your actions at the end, making you have to dump one of the Raider Gangs, but the treatment you get by the Minutemen felt soft (Despite what the casuals on reddit say). Like, you lose Garvey as a companion but are still let back in as general of the Minutemen immediately after driving them out. The fuck?

    Why not make the Minutemen permanently hostile if you choose to drag the raiders along. This just seems like a cop-out so you get to keep everything despite the decisions you made.
    • [Like] [Like] x 10
  4. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    Honestly you're underselling it. With the caravan master you can use strong back. With the junkie there's speech, medic, barter, survival, and guns. there's alternative dialogue if you've visited the Vault 21 gift shop. This is for NPCs scripted to die less than a minute later.

    Meanwhile I can count all of the skill checks in the entirety of Fallout 4 and DLC on two hands. Intelligence on the flying ship, medic in FH, perception in FH x3, robotics expert in NW & cannibal in FH. That's just one more than the beginning of honest hearts. The people that claim FH tried to bring it back are just Bethtards.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  5. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    Anything that includes COA as a possible path choice looses merit for me and can't be taken too seriously. Far Harbor was the less shitty shit in the shit pile. Far Harbor suggests that they are willing to claw back design based on feedback and that they are not sure what to do with Fallout, and that they have no confidence as a company for a product they marketed. Nuka World is a shooting gallery in a shooting gallery shitshow that is so boring I would rather format my computer then play it. Like it all you want but those two items are a testament to garbage. If it was good, it wouldn't have a 50% happy ratio on Steam.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  6. Chud

    Chud Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 8, 2015
    I think overall, Far Harbor's alright; nothing mind blowing, but competent enough for a single playthrough. It suffers from reusing too much of the same kinds of assets from the vanilla game, along with common enemies like ghouls, raiders, and super mutants. What I liked about Far Harbor wasn't the size of the island [honesty, who cares about that], but getting to see some groups like Children of Atom get fleshed out more, given some actual choices, and some puzzles that aren't solved for me. The puzzle in which you're trying to figure out how to unlock the sealed door was such a nice surprise. And then it led to a decent loot, granted mostly crafting items but a nice prize all the same. The ending to the three factions weren't the best I've seen, but at least I felt some kind of resolution with them. The option to be evil was given more room in this DLC, more so than even in Nuka World if you really think about it. Forget the junky raiding settlements in Nuka World, and think of how you could really bring this whole island down, along with moments like a crazed raider offering to make a deal in which you lead suckers to him and then split the profits, or dickish ways to resolve some quests. It's not perfect, but it gets enough right.

    Nuka World has some nice assets, new enemies, and places to explore, and that's about it. Most of the quests are pretty blah to bad. The Gultch area looks nice and had some of the funnier quests with acting out the part of a western character, yet the area is so small and having to fight mostly the same blood worm enemy becomes quite dull. World of Refreshment is boring; pretty linear, with either fighting blue tinted mire lurks or the same robots we've fought a million times already, not to mention it being a simple clear the area style mission. Kiddie Kingdom was at least fun to mess around with, such as the funhouse, or fighting ghouls while on a tea cup ride. Galactic Zone I also enjoyed for being so varied in its locations. The place with the zoo animals was pretty dull and the quest for it pretty awful. The surrounding areas aren't very interesting, save for places being hit by your raiders, or the haunted house. The central hub was pretty nice, what with hearing the bickering of raiders and seeing people mill about. The choice system here is a joke. The variety of quests are mostly broken down between either collect stuff, or clear an area out. Nuka Wolrd's half good and half terrible.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
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  7. Zerginfestor

    Zerginfestor dear god, the scrapping

    Apr 18, 2015
    I found Nuka World to be an absolute shitfest. It doesn't even reward Unarmed Players (besides 2 perks if you do shit right in the main quest). Pistol players get a reward, Rifle players get a reward, Melee Players get a HUUUUUGE fucking reward, but Unarmed is, yet again, shit on. Thanks Bethesda.
  8. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Y'know what I find funny?

    Beth fans are constantly the ones criticizing us for not willing to accept Bethesda trying new things, over things that obviously provided no advantage to anyone, yet the moment Bethesda genuinely does try new things, they are the first to criticize it.

    Like, in Far Harbor they introduced a challenging puzzle for once, and there was a thread on Reddit every other day saying "Dis is stupid, Fallout is about shootin' mutants not solving puzzles"

    Or in Nuka World they tried to make Preston pissed at you for siding with the Raiders, and you constantly see people whining "Dafuq is this?, How was I supposed to know that bringing an army of Raiders to the Commonwealth would make the guy who wants to save the commonwealth get mad?"
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  9. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    I personally believe the portal puzzle shouldn't have been there in the first place. When we say we want innovation, we don't want you to just copy another popular game that doesn't fit in the setting.
    The Preston point is spot on. The kiddies cry when C&C is introduced. There's a "review" of NV ( http://blog.wilshipley.com/2011/01/why-i-hate-new-vegas.html ) that says F3 is better than FNV because you can kill everyone and come back 3 days later and they'll have forgiven you. You can't even do that on F4 because half the bloody characters are essential.
  10. CommonMan

    CommonMan First time out of the vault

    Sep 5, 2016

    Watching this interview where they talk about, "Our fans really wanted to play as raiders" I found legitimately painful. I couldn't make it past 20 seconds. You can tell just how painfully obvious it is just how little they understand about the franchise.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Chud

    Chud Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 8, 2015
    I get the feeling these are cubicle drones being forced to speak about a piece of DLC that they half-heartedly worked on due to it being their job. They look really uncomfortable and forced. I keep watching how often they blink their eyes, wondering if there's a hidden message there, that if they don't do as told the family gets a bullet to the head.
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Actually, I would welcome a Fallout game where you REALLY play a raider, with all of the complications, raiding, and decisions that come with it. It could be a very welcome change. But it would of course require a completely different team then Bethesda. One that can actually write good stuff. Like Obsidian.
    • [Like] [Like] x 6
  13. GingerSwan

    GingerSwan First time out of the vault

    Jul 31, 2015
    I should have clarified, while they are nowhere near the level of 1, 2, New Vegas, or even Fallout 3, they are miles better than the base game.
  14. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    Is it really possible that the developers are so dense that when people complained "you can't be evil" they thought that all they had to do was make a DLC where you are forced to be evil?

    When people complained "you can't be evil" in Fallout 4, the actual complaint was that Fallout 4 lacks choices and consequences - the game does not allow you to roleplay in any way. We wanted a game where you can choose to be good, bad, or anything in between - a game with actual choices in dialogue and in actions and their resulting consequences. This is RPG Development 101 stuff, not rocket science.
    • [Like] [Like] x 8
  15. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Er... Nah. It sounds like it'd be a decent FPS or tactical spin-off but I don't think obsidian would be the choice company for such a game...
  16. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    May 17, 2016
    In a way, Fallout Tactics puts you in the shoes of raiders. Shiny raiders pretending to do good, but still hoarding tech from the peasants, and forcing them to give up their youngsters, give supplies... for their "protection". Still have the mission with the hummer full of food supplies in mind, when you have to drive it out of town, protecting it from the hungry people because they "didn't pay the brotherhood".
    The whole thing, with the possibility of seeing your faction turn into a society, either a dictatorship or an actual civilization with good potential for the future. Of course, the player doesn't see himself as a raider. And that's the whole point of it : nobody would see himself as a raider. Raiding is not a job, it's an event, an accident. Unfortunate and probably done against your will.
    Vipers probably don't consider themselves as raiders. Neither do the Khans, the Fiends, Mr.Wright's pirates etc.
    • [Like] [Like] x 7
  17. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    If there is a Fallout spin-off where you get to play a character more inclined to evil, I hope that such a game actually acknowledges the many levels of evil like playground bully to Doctor Presper (That's for you Van Buren remembering folks). The first thing that has to be acknowledged though is that your gang does not seem themselves as raiders but merely people trying to scrape a living through the easiest means.

    From what I can tell, Alpha Protocol is one of those games that actually does the whole being differing levels of evil and choices having consequences. Bonus points for it being made by Obsidian (though their publishing deal with Sega doomed the game and it is a flawed product).
  18. Brivoo

    Brivoo Powered by Radiant AI

    Jan 20, 2016
    I was somewhat positive about Far Harbour; it brought me back to Fallout 3, where the flaws weren't so glaring as to get in the way of my basic enjoyment of the game, and the atmosphere was pulled off to a tee. I was even willing to go as far as to say that Bethesda might have been learning from its mistakes, re-implementing skill checks beyond token ones and introducing some hamfisted type of ambiguity to the story.

    However, Nuka World ripped whatever goodwill I have to shreds a second and last time. It not only did everything wrong again but went out of its way to add more insult to injury. It's an honest, heartfelt personal 'fuck you' from Bethesda to me, and honestly, it just makes me feel tired.

    I'm not going to say I couldn't care less or I just want to laugh at it, because I don't. It's sad. It's outraging. It's everything wrong with that godforsaken company.

    But there's just no use trying for me anymore.
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  19. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
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  20. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder Modder Moderator

    Mar 10, 2007
    I think it's because the Minutemen is the "fail-safe" for the main game, and Bethesda didn't bother to make Nuka World raiders as the alternative of it.
    • [Like] [Like] x 7