CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Totalitarian authoritarian government doesn't = racist. South America had plenty of horrifically oppressive goverments which didn't suddenly become racist.
I wonder just how badly oppressive the Pre-War world was?
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Carbon Dated and Proud
Totalitarian authoritarian government doesn't = racist. South America had plenty of horrifically oppressive goverments which didn't suddenly become racist.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Vergil has a valid point, leading up to the Great War there would have been anti-Asian sentiment and mistrust.
It could be at that time multiracial couples were more accepted. We don't know enough about the Pre-War world to know how society felt about them and same-sex couples though.
This isn't South America, this is an absolutely retarded comparison. The history and culture of the two nations couldn't be anymore different.
Did you just blackout for the part where I said "Hyper Xenophobic Society"? This is the United States running on full 1950s evil conservative strawman mode. Are you telling me that it's realistic to assume that there was just no racism in an America that never had the Civil Rights movement and stayed in a perpetual 1950s Cold War era cranked up to 11? That the same country that was executing dissidents in the street and had interniment camps all over the country's people would just go "lol I totally trust my Chinese neighbors xD"? If you want to have the "le evil right wing 50's" go all the way or else it just becomes unbelievable. Pre-War Americans were willing to accept the execution of people in the street but not xenophobia? lol.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Which notably is canonical given that Chinese were moved to internment camps. However, in this respect, I do think the option to let players play Chinese characters (to look like themselves perhaps) trumps the lore element.
Well to use F4 (bleah), there's an interracial gay couple across the street from the SS' home but they have to pretend to be roommates.
It's also the future alternate history rather than the actual United States. You're also assuming there wasn't a Civil Rights movement versus the United States' history going in a way which either co-opted the Civil Rights movement or had one which had a conformist culture which absorbed the Blacks and Asian Americans.
Well it's a very simple solution.
STOP FUCKING FOCUSING ON PRE-WAR SHIT BETHESDA THATS NOT WHAT FALLOUT IS ABOUT!
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
You're telling me a Chinese couple would be allowed to live in a well-developed area, without being mistrusted and discriminated against by their neighbours and never once taken by the authorities?
This isn't something that should "trump the lore". If you had a game set in Nazi Germany do you really think having players being able to play as a Jewish couple that isn't at all mistreated or mistrusted make sense?
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I'm saying that if you actually are racist in real life to reflect fictional racism then you have failed life forever.
Seriously, I refuse to believe anyone would actually think it's a good idea to screw with players in RL to make it more true to the arbitrary rules of the game.No, it doesn't make sense.
And who the fuck cares?
What the fuck does this even mean? We're racist because bethesda are a bunch of hacks who can't write a believable world? Are you hearing yourself right now? You've failed to at making any goddamn sense forever.
lol so having a realistic and believable world and good writing is "arbitrary rules" of the game? God forbid the game's story isn't squeaky clean and does something a player might not like for the sake of having an engrossing narrative. We should just make everything nice and PC and never portrayed tough subjects with some realism and subtetly so someones feels doesn't get hurt
What doesn't make sense is in a country that is extremely xenophobic and hostile towards Asians with concentration camps you can play as an Asian couple in an upper class neighborhood with 0 discrimination.
lol nice argument. Guess we should all just delete our accounts and stop discussing things because "lol who the fuck cares xD".
Admit it, you've lost this argument, badly.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
I'm saying that if you actually are racist in real life to reflect fictional racism then you have failed life forever.
No, it doesn't make sense.
Woah slow down, what? I'm not on about screwing over players or actual racism here. If one country is at war with another, chances are the majority of their population isn't going to look too kindly on members of said enemy country.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Are you a developer at Bethesda? No, you are not which is why the comment isn't directed at you. It would, however, be despicable for the developer to try to enforce arbitrary setting restrictions on the gamer.
It's like Westworld the TV show. Guests aren't treated with racism while the characters are.
Nope, like stimpacks for healing broken limbs or one bullet not leaving you crippled and bleeding to death, it's there for pure fun.
Which is a stupid attitude of course but a very American one. It's also canonical in the setting as we had the internment camps in the game. The thing is, I don't think that should restrict Chinese looking characters iin Fallout 4. Just my point.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Bethesda shouldn't have made a Pre-War segment the way they did then.
The point is Fallout 4 shouldnt have had that retarded intro in the first place anyway and that bethesdas pre war fetish leads to huge disconnects in canon and believability.
Also its not an "American attitude" it's the attitude of literally every country for centuries that you keep an eye on the people you're at war with. Why do you have such a hard on for randomly shitting on America constantly? We're talking about bethesda's shitty fictional America, stop interjecting you shitty non-fictional politics into it.
Also its not an "American attitude" it's the attitude of literally every country for centuries that you keep an eye on the people you're at war with. Why do you have such a hard on for randomly shitting on America constantly? We're talking about bethesda's shitty fictional America, stop interjecting you shitty non-fictional politics into it.
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Brandy Beavers
First time out of the vault
Propaganda and other forms of social control is the reason why people aren't like "Hey! This is wrong." Hey! That is wrong." "Hey! All of this is wrong!" You can't run a campaign saying "And then we'll do some evil shit for money." You do it with ad campaigns and catchy slogans about how your plan is good for the country or how these actions will make it better, or at least about how those other guys deserved it.
I mean, that's something that still happens everywhere today. Fallout 4 is an extremely easy target on its own. We don't have to make up reasons to pick on it.
I mean, that's something that still happens everywhere today. Fallout 4 is an extremely easy target on its own. We don't have to make up reasons to pick on it.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
The idea of immigrants having a loyalty to their ancestor's home nation is a really stupid one. It's the kind of paranoid nutjob fantasy which has been disproven time and time again but keeps coming up along with the Illuminati and Moon Nazis.
BUT I totally agree with your statement about Bethesda's fiction America, which I personally think is a very interesting location (arguably more so than Fallout 1 and 2's presentation) even if it makes no damned sense to keep everything intact 200 years later unless the Earth is some sort of weird afterlife for the souls killed in the Great War.
This is also where I think the "Buck Rogers" origin of Fallout 4 is one which has a lot of problems and I actually think it's weirdly dissonant with the rest of the game world. I understand why we have the Player Characters come from Vaults. They come from Vaults so they, like the player, can be introduced to the new world as babes in the woods. It's a neat little trick and one which can work very well like we see in Fallout 1 and Fallout 3.
The problem is there's a lot of baggage for being the sole survivor of a nuclear war (except you're not, see Ghouls, Robobrains, and more) which doesn't remotely get touched on. You're treated as a blank slate when you should have all manner of opinions or thoughts on the way the world has been horribly warped into a twisted parody of itself. More than just, "My favorite stadium has been turned into a shantytown." The same for losing your spouse and baby.
I think Bethesda also dropped the ball with the origin in other ways as if you're going to give a character a spouse then you shouldn't murder them five minutes later. Speaking as a married man, it'd have been nice to have her be a continuing character (or him) for the rest of the game. Certainly, they should have taken the same level of care to make the characters likable as they took for Elizabeth in Bioshock: Infinite.
I also think they missed the mark by making the player character's Pre-War life seemingly so idyllic. If they were trying to say, "Yes, you loved your spouse and loved your child" that's fine but you don't need to be a bunch of rich twits to do that. I think it would have been more powerful if we'd seen the food rationing, worry about being redrafted into the war, or roving gangs of looters while playing them deeply in love.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Umm can I butt in?
Shall we begin?
'2052: A television documentary into the withered husk of the Texas oil fields brings
the oil shortage into the American households, and reveals how deep the energy
crisis runs.'
'2053: The socially transmitted “New Plague” arises, killing tens of thousands. The
United States closes its borders and the first-ever national quarantine is
declared. The source of the plague is unknown, but rumors persist that it is a
genetically engineered weapon.'
'2054 (January): Limited nuclear exchange in the Middle East raises fears throughout the world.'
'2060: Traffic on the streets of the world stops moving. Fuel becomes too precious to
waste on automobiles, so alternatives are explored - electric and fusion cars
begin to be manufactured, but factories can only make limited amounts.
Pressure on fusion research increases.'
'2062: Despite quarantine measures, the New Plague continues to spread, fueling
national paranoia.'
'2065 (June): Due to enormous demands for electricity in the summer of 2065, a nuclear
reactor in New York City almost goes critical. The near meltdown brings into
effect power rationing, and the term "Hot Summer" is used to refer to the New
York incident.'
'2066 (Summer): Adding further insult to the Chinese-American relations, the first crude fusion
cell is unveiled, one of the results of the Power Armor project. Devices
designed for the fusion cell begin to be manufactured. Incorporating fusion
power into the general US infrastructure begins, but the process is too slow to
supply power to the regions that need it. Nearly thirteen years later, few
sections of the United States were supplied with fusion power.'
'2076 (January): The United States annexation of Canada is complete. Canadian protestors and
rioters are shot on sight, and the Alaskan Pipeline swarms with American
military units. Pictures of atrocities make their way to the United States,
causing further unrest and protests.'
'2076 (August): Food and energy riots begin in major cities throughout the United States.
Military units begin to be deployed in cities within the United States to contain
rioters, and many temporary jails are constructed. A state of emergency is
declared, and martial law soon follows.' (1 year before the Great War)
'2077 (January 22): The first domestic use of Power Armor within the United States for crowd and
quarantine control. Units originally serving in China and the Anchorage Front
Line find themselves fighting Americans at home. Food riots increase, and
many civilians are killed. Several soldiers defect from the military both in
Canada and the United States. They are captured, and are sent to military
prisons.'
'2077 (February): FEV Research is leaked to the world through an unknown source. Protests in
many major cities and governments around the world, as well as accusations
that the US was responsible for the New Plague. FEV is seen as the threat it is,
and serves only to fuel tensions.'
'2077 (October 23) Great War: Bombs are launched; who struck first is unknown... and it is not
even known if the bombs came from China or America. Air raid sirens sound,
but very few people go into vaults, thinking it is a false alarm. The Vaults are
sealed.'
I feel like this sentence is what defines the pre-war government to you, doesn't it? It's interesting because that sentence is utterly, totally wrong, well according to the Fallout Bible anyway. Let me quote excerpts from it, which paint a far different picture to the seemingly happy 50's with a dark background that you seem to believe.
Shall we begin?
'2052: A television documentary into the withered husk of the Texas oil fields brings
the oil shortage into the American households, and reveals how deep the energy
crisis runs.'
'2053: The socially transmitted “New Plague” arises, killing tens of thousands. The
United States closes its borders and the first-ever national quarantine is
declared. The source of the plague is unknown, but rumors persist that it is a
genetically engineered weapon.'
'2054 (January): Limited nuclear exchange in the Middle East raises fears throughout the world.'
'2060: Traffic on the streets of the world stops moving. Fuel becomes too precious to
waste on automobiles, so alternatives are explored - electric and fusion cars
begin to be manufactured, but factories can only make limited amounts.
Pressure on fusion research increases.'
'2062: Despite quarantine measures, the New Plague continues to spread, fueling
national paranoia.'
'2065 (June): Due to enormous demands for electricity in the summer of 2065, a nuclear
reactor in New York City almost goes critical. The near meltdown brings into
effect power rationing, and the term "Hot Summer" is used to refer to the New
York incident.'
'2066 (Summer): Adding further insult to the Chinese-American relations, the first crude fusion
cell is unveiled, one of the results of the Power Armor project. Devices
designed for the fusion cell begin to be manufactured. Incorporating fusion
power into the general US infrastructure begins, but the process is too slow to
supply power to the regions that need it. Nearly thirteen years later, few
sections of the United States were supplied with fusion power.'
'2076 (January): The United States annexation of Canada is complete. Canadian protestors and
rioters are shot on sight, and the Alaskan Pipeline swarms with American
military units. Pictures of atrocities make their way to the United States,
causing further unrest and protests.'
'2076 (August): Food and energy riots begin in major cities throughout the United States.
Military units begin to be deployed in cities within the United States to contain
rioters, and many temporary jails are constructed. A state of emergency is
declared, and martial law soon follows.' (1 year before the Great War)
'2077 (January 22): The first domestic use of Power Armor within the United States for crowd and
quarantine control. Units originally serving in China and the Anchorage Front
Line find themselves fighting Americans at home. Food riots increase, and
many civilians are killed. Several soldiers defect from the military both in
Canada and the United States. They are captured, and are sent to military
prisons.'
'2077 (February): FEV Research is leaked to the world through an unknown source. Protests in
many major cities and governments around the world, as well as accusations
that the US was responsible for the New Plague. FEV is seen as the threat it is,
and serves only to fuel tensions.'
'2077 (October 23) Great War: Bombs are launched; who struck first is unknown... and it is not
even known if the bombs came from China or America. Air raid sirens sound,
but very few people go into vaults, thinking it is a false alarm. The Vaults are
sealed.'
B...but my wacky 50s caricature!
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Not a bit of it isn't already known to me.
All of those things are part of the fact the government is trying to oppress the dark and horrible underbelly of the world with false hope and propaganda. The whole reason why they invade Canada is for fuel so they can keep up their consummerist materialist culture.
This isn't Bethesda either, this is Fallout 1 and 2. The entire point of the Vaults is to pretend there's a solution when there isn't.
The populace turned a blind eye to the suffering of the world and the doom approaching thanks to their Nuka Colas, Highwaymen, and blind patriotism.
All of those things are part of the fact the government is trying to oppress the dark and horrible underbelly of the world with false hope and propaganda. The whole reason why they invade Canada is for fuel so they can keep up their consummerist materialist culture.
This isn't Bethesda either, this is Fallout 1 and 2. The entire point of the Vaults is to pretend there's a solution when there isn't.
The populace turned a blind eye to the suffering of the world and the doom approaching thanks to their Nuka Colas, Highwaymen, and blind patriotism.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
You seem not to show it.
Yep, you've officially shown me you know nothing about this. The US government invaded Canada to protect their Alaskan oil pipes with direct military action, allowing easy access to Alaska for military vehicles and troops.
I'm sorry what? There was starvation, disease, lack of energy and only a small portion of the US had working Fusion.
You win this year's Retard award.For one, READ MY FUCKING EXAMPLES ONE MORE FUCKING TIME.
The people of the US did CARE. They had protests, they rioted and they complained at the FEV and Canadian atrocities. They weren't convinced to be happy with Colas or Cars, only a small portion of people could afford those. And blind patriotism? Sure, because rioting and fighting in the streets is blind patriotism.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yeah, they managed to start caring but not enough to stop anything.
The world depicted in Fallout 1 and 2 had Reno as a massive tourist destination, Los Angeles with a fully functioning economy, and things like energy cell powered vehicles. There's massive corporations like Poseidon Oil and WestTech functioning as well. That's not including the fact Las Vegas was fully up and running if you count New Vegas as original timeline canon (I don't). My general opinion of the Pre-War timeline is of a jingoistic saccharine world which the nuclear war liberated itself from.
YMMV.
They didn't invade Canada for fuel, they invaded Canada to protect their oil pipelines.
????
The world depicted in Fallout 1 and 2 had Reno as a massive tourist destination, Los Angeles with a fully functioning economy, and things like energy cell powered vehicles. There's massive corporations like Poseidon Oil and WestTech functioning as well. That's not including the fact Las Vegas was fully up and running if you count New Vegas as original timeline canon (I don't). My general opinion of the Pre-War timeline is of a jingoistic saccharine world which the nuclear war liberated itself from.
YMMV.
They didn't invade Canada for fuel, they invaded Canada to protect their oil pipelines.
????
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