I wonder just how badly oppressive the Pre-War world was?

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I'm saying that if you actually are racist in real life to reflect fictional racism then you have failed life forever. :) Seriously, I refuse to believe anyone would actually think it's a good idea to screw with players in RL to make it more true to the arbitrary rules of the game.

No, it doesn't make sense.

And who the fuck cares?
1.did you just say lore is arbitrary

2. What you're saying doesn't make sense.

3. Fallout fans.
 
You think Fallout fans would want to make characters racist to Chinese Fallout fans for wanting characters who look like them?
No, we think Fallout fans want some fucking consistency with the story and not be treated like babies. God forbid the story makes sense, some fictional characters in a video game might say some mean things towards the player if they play as an ethnicity that would realistically be discriminated against, oh God the humanity! You do get this shit is what kills innovation and good story telling right? "Don't tackle any tough subjects! Someone might get offended!". I think it's more disrespectful to the intelligence and the character of Chinese Fallout players to assume they can't handle fictional characters (that are supposed to be negative anyway) saying mean things towards their fictional player character. Should we stop having WWII games because some American soldiers might call the German soldiers krauts? Do we assume Germans are too pussy to handle games that have some negative German characters and characters who say negative things about the Germans who are their enemy at that time?
 
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No, we think Fallout fans want some fucking consistency with the story and not be treated like babies. God forbid the story makes sense, some fiction characters in a video game might say some mean things towards the player if they play as an ethnicity that would realistically be discriminated against, oh God the humanity! You do get this shit is what kills innovation and good story telling right? "Don't tackle any tough subjects! Someone might get offended!".

The game exists to serve the players.

:)
 
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The game exists to serve the players.
And they're doing a piss poor job of that by serving us up a platter of inconsistent poppycock. Not every game has to have the character be a 2D, flawless power fantasy that everyone loves. Not everyone wants some simple cookie cutter kiddie pool bullshit, even some of those apparently over sensitive Chinese players.
 
And they're doing a piss poor job of that by serving us up a platter of inconsistent poppycock. Not every game has to have the character be a 2D, flawless power fantasy that everyone loves. Not everyone wants some simple cookie cutter kiddie pool bullshit, even some of those apparently over sensitive Chinese players.

On a serious note, it's a question of what you believe the work of art which Fallout is about. Fallout lore is not something which should ever be given priority over the function which it is, specifically that it is an item designed to bring joy to the multitudes. It is a item for gamers by gamers. It for example would be a better designed thing if you were shot then your character dies. Healing would not work save over months and you would be permadeath after ever game. That would be closer to reality.

However, it would be a shitty game.

Same for the race issue.
 
The game exists to serve the players.

:)
Gta exists to serve the players. Fallout exists to portray a pseudo realistic, well thought out world, wherein a PC with clear and possibly crippling limitations is tasked with a mountainous goal. This is a good example of why fallout 4 is a steaming pile of shit.

Same for the race issue.
Wrong. the race issue would enhance the world further bring the player closer to fallout. It would increase immersion. I fail to see how addressing the PC's race would affect game mechanics at all.
 
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Gta exists to serve the players. Fallout exists to portray a pseudo realistic, well thought out world, wherein a PC with clear and possibly crippling limitations is tasked with a mountainous goal. This is a good example of why fallout 4 is a steaming pile of shit.

Permadeath and no saves.

Fallout is a fundamentally well-designed game world which focuses on the purpose of creating an enjoyable exploratory experience for the character that allows them to play the role of the hero in the game (or villain) based on catering to their choice. To be the bad guy, the good guy, or the story as you see fit.

I see it as a bad thing Bethesda is removing that freedom. When, at the core, Fallout should have maximized choice enforced by the engine.
 
On a serious note, it's a question of what you believe the work of art which Fallout is about. Fallout lore is not something which should ever be given priority over the function which it is, specifically that it is an item designed to bring joy to the multitudes. It is a item for gamers by gamers. It for example would be a better designed thing if you were shot then your character dies. Healing would not work save over months and you would be permadeath after ever game. That would be closer to reality.

However, it would be a shitty game.

Same for the race issue.
Holy shit you fucking child. No one is asking that the game be 100% like real life but it's blatant bullshit like that in what's supposed to be a story driven role playing that makes the game more believable. That's such a basic false equivalency I'm just going to assume you're not that stupid and are just shitter shattered that someone suggested we not have all minorities coddled in all forms of media at all times even when it doesn't make a lick of fucking sense. If you want a mindless action game that doesn't take any risks with a boring shitty plot and than maybe you should fuck off back to Call of Duty because we actually like our story to have substance and don't just dismiss criticism of the story with "lol u want permadeath xDDDDD".
I see it as a bad thing Bethesda is removing that freedom. When, at the core, Fallout should have maximized choice enforced by the engine.
You of all people should not be telling others what Fallout is at it's core because you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You didn't even know one of the most basic parts of the Fallout story until it was told to you 3 separate times. You've made it very clear you think Fallout is about wacky bullshit in one of bethesda's playgrounds of a game world and you clearly don't give a shit about a complex and interesting narrative that is the foundation of this series. The fact that bethesda fucks up simple shit in their own game stories like having a recently pregnant woman with nothing more than a law degree be able to tackle the wasteland and use power armour or how a family of an ethnicity that was being shipped to concentration camps can live happy in cosey in an upper class neighborhood is of no issue to you and you think that anyone who has a problem with this shitty story telling is either "racist" or "sexist" or "being pedantic" or whatever other buzzword you want to use to excuse lazy storytelling just further goes to show that you are intellectually and critically dead and your opinions are of no worth to anyone who actually cares about this medium as a legitimate artform. You are the definition of a fucking philistine.
 
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Vergil....

I hate Fallout 4's story.

I think the story had a minimum amount of freedom and it bungled everything which had a remote amount of potential. I liked elements of it but the sheer underwhelming nature of the game has continually smacked me in the face.

A short list off the top of my head:

* Why have the male Sole Survivor talk about their grandfather if you can be the wife?
* Why make the Sole Survivor a heterosexual male/female in a nuclear family?
* Why not have the Female Survivor be a veteran too?
* Why make them a survivor of the Pre-War world when that doesn't impact the game?
* Why kill your spouse if you are going to have them be married?
* Why have them be sarcastic and jokey when they've just lost everything?
* Why have Shaun be your son when you don't get to spend any real time with them?
* Why have Synth Shaun if you're not going to develop their relationship or be able to talk to them?
* Why not be able to talk about your spouse?
* Why not be able to talk about the Pre-War world?
* Why not have some ties to your past beyond Vault-Tec guy?

Basically, the game removes large amounts of choices and then doesn't develop the choices you have.

How badly is the fucking story written? You cannot finish the game without murdering children in the Institute or Brotherhood of Steel.

God.
 
@Vergil may be an ass but he ain't wrong. @CT Phipps... Are uhhh.. Are you Chinese?

Over at RPG.net, I remember the Build up to Fallout 4 and people discussing how happy they were about the game because Fallout: New Vegas really expanded your options for characterization. I remember, especially how gay posters were horrified by the fact they were basically losing the option to play themselves with the absence of the Bachelor/La Femme perks.

And then being forced into the heterosexual relationship.

Then the game OPENS with the Male Survivor talking about HIS grandfather fighting in WW2.

It really brought home to me Bethesda seemed uninterested in anything but the male straight protagonist.

My sensitivity to this issue actually isn't Fallout related, though, despite the above but due to Live Action Role-Playing Games (LARP) which used to be something I did in the 90s. One of the big controversies which happened was when White Wolf released "Kindred of the East" which basically was a supplement of racist bullshit stereotypes and the idea the Asian Vampires were going to come and murder the shit out of the Western vampires. Which is notable because V:TM actually had a very large Black, Asian, and (incredibly large) female base unlike roleplaying had before.

And there was a SHIT TON of racism to the Asian gamers in my area after Kindred of the East. The local assholes talking about how with the Kindred of the East or Kuei-Jin existing, they were just "playing their character" harrassing Asian vampire players even if they were playing Western vampires who were Asian. They justified it with lore. I shut that shit down at my table/gatherings but it still pisses me off decades later.

Just, "Lore is more important than welcoming fellow gamers to love your hobby and world like you do?"
 
Over at RPG.net, I remember the Build up to Fallout 4 and people discussing how happy they were about the game because Fallout: New Vegas really expanded your options for characterization. I remember, especially how gay posters were horrified by the fact they were basically losing the option to play themselves with the absence of the Bachelor/La Femme perks.

And then being forced into the heterosexual relationship.

Then the game OPENS with the Male Survivor talking about HIS grandfather fighting in WW2.

It really brought home to me Bethesda seemed uninterested in anything but the male straight protagonist.

My sensitivity to this issue actually isn't Fallout related, though, despite the above but due to Live Action Role-Playing Games (LARP) which used to be something I did in the 90s. One of the big controversies which happened was when White Wolf released "Kindred of the East" which basically was a supplement of racist bullshit stereotypes and the idea the Asian Vampires were going to come and murder the shit out of the Western vampires. Which is notable because V:TM actually had a very large Black, Asian, and (incredibly large) female base unlike roleplaying had before.

And there was a SHIT TON of racism to the Asian gamers in my area after Kindred of the East. The local assholes talking about how with the Kindred of the East or Kuei-Jin existing, they were just "playing their character" harrassing Asian vampire players even if they were playing Western vampires who were Asian. They justified it with lore. I shut that shit down at my table/gatherings but it still pisses me off decades later.

Just, "Lore is more important than welcoming fellow gamers to love your hobby and world like you do?"
I'm inclined to disagree In the case of fallout. No real person is being attacked. It would literally only be for the duration of the pre-war segment. And it only makes sense lore-wise. Honestly you opposing this is borderline SJW. Makes me wanna move to the codex... Almost.
 
This is all so, so wrong.
1. Racism isn't a problem, seeing that the average racist (average guy) hates his government and is appalled by the actions of the US. So if the US is creating internment camps (entirely possible) there would only be further outrage and controversy among the populace, not acts of racism.
2. Course, this would still mean that there would no Asians in upper class areas, as those would be the first to be searched for the Red Menace.
 
Okay this has gone rather off track now, being having devolved into an argument between a couple of people now.
I am going to close this now.
 
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