I wonder just how badly oppressive the Pre-War world was?

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CT Phipps said:
Yeah, they managed to start caring but not enough to stop anything.
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They rioted, the forced the government to basically declare war on them by sending power armoured units against civilians. They tried to stop things but they lacked the military power the government had. Also nice way to try ignore all my other points.

CT Phipps said:
They didn't invade Canada for fuel, they invaded Canada to protect their oil pipelines.

????
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They already had fuel from Alaska, they had literally no reason to invade Canada for fuel. However they needed to be able to send soldiers easily to Alaska, and protecting the oil pipes was the excuse.
 
Dr Fallout said:
They rioted, the forced the government to basically declare war on them by sending power armoured units against civilians. They tried to stop things but they lacked the military power the government had. Also nice way to try ignore all my other points.
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The United States has used military technology on its citizens multiple times. It's not exactly something which means that the majority of people weren't behind it. Basically, I reject the idea the United States dictatorship wasn't ruling with the consent of its citizenry and they aren't the people ultimately responsible for the nuclear war. It's easy to blame the Enclave and the government but the blame rests with the citizenry.

Some resisting or not.

They already had fuel from Alaska, they had literally no reason to invade Canada for fuel. However they needed to be able to send soldiers easily to Alaska, and protecting the oil pipes was the excuse.
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You just said it was to secure the fuel in Alaska, which is what I'm saying.
 
CT Phipps said:
The United States has used military technology on its citizens multiple times. It's not exactly something which means that the majority of people weren't behind it.
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I'm honestly confused by this sentence. Yes the US has used military tech on it's civilians multiple times. What the fuck does this next part mean. It's so vague.

CT Phipps said:
You just said it was to secure the fuel in Alaska, which is what I'm saying.
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So say it, invading Canada for fuel sounds like they invaded Canada to get... fuel!
 
Okay fair enough.

You've convinced me. The Pre-War world was on the verge of complete collapse and the government was barely holding on with military force. The 1950s and their pseudo-prosperity is a poor fit as it was already the verge of complete anarchy.
 
CT Phipps said:
The world depicted in Fallout 1 and 2 had Reno as a massive tourist destination, Los Angeles with a fully functioning economy, and things like energy cell powered vehicles. There's massive corporations like Poseidon Oil and WestTech functioning as well. That's not including the fact Las Vegas was fully up and running if you count New Vegas as original timeline canon (I don't). My general opinion of the Pre-War timeline is of a jingoistic saccharine world which the nuclear war liberated itself from.
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You couldn't have made it any clearer you've either never played the original Fallouts or didn't understand a single thing in them as you've pretty much gotten everything you just said entirely wrong or you completely missed the point of them. Congratulations.
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Dr Fallout said:
I still get the feeling you prefer the seemingly happy 50's world with a dark secret and hey, that's fine. It's just not Fallout. If it was a separate IP I wouldn't be complaining but sadly it isn't.
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Not so much a happy secret as willful denial and government propaganda. A future world where everything is on the Eve of Destruction but people still cling to their lies and self-delusions that it will all work out because they're brainwashed by the government and believe in the horrible social constraints which keep people oppressed voluntarily. That the inflation, social unrest, and so on will stop soon.

I see the Pre-War world as basically American North Korea basically. They don't have this song to free them.

 
CT Phipps said:
Not so much a happy secret as willful denial and government propaganda. A future world where everything is on the Eve of Destruction but people still cling to their lies and self-delusions that it will all work out because they're brainwashed by the government and believe in the horrible social constraints which keep people oppressed voluntarily.
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Yes they believe in their delusions which is why there are mass riots in the streets constantly to the point of power armoured riot cops executing people in the streets and the media is talking about the government's involvement in FEV testing being leaked to the public. You just like to think of it as being that because it fits into your narrow world view. There is no other reason to cling to this false idea of what Pre-War Fallout society is rationally.
CT Phipps said:
I see the Pre-War world as basically American North Korea basically. They don't have this song to free them.
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Then you don't see Fallout's Pre-War America because that's not what it is.
 
CT Phipps said:
Yeah, you convinced me otherwise.
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And I'm going to keep saying it...

But no, I like some of what Bethesda did with the pre-war world and hell, if they tried to make it more consistent I would love all of it, but it should be separate from Fallout. I love reading notes and journals from the past, slowly making me realize the danger and corruption of the government. If done well, it's interesting and I would not mind having a whole story on it.
 
Dr Fallout said:
And I'm going to keep saying it...

But no, I like some of what Bethesda did with the pre-war world and hell, if they tried to make it more consistent I would love all of it, but it should be separate from Fallout. I love reading notes and journals from the past, slowly making me realize the danger and corruption of the government. If done well, it's interesting and I would not mind having a whole story on it.
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I admit, part of my ease with Bethesda is I consider their stuff to be a different world to the original two games.
 
CT Phipps said:
I admit, part of my ease with Bethesda is I consider their stuff to be a different world to the original two games.
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Yeah, however the plot holes and weak lore also holds me back. But when I just ignore all that and turn off my critical brain I can enjoy not their games... but definitely some of the stories they tell.
 
CT Phipps said:
I admit, part of my ease with Bethesda is I consider their stuff to be a different world to the original two games.
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That doesn't make the writing any less shitty. Even if it wasn't related to Fallout it'd still be garbage because it's poorly thought and executed.
 
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