I do not think conjecture is void when we aren't given any contradicting evidence in the game
? But that's conjecture IS, speculation that is backed up by almost nothing.
We know that slaves give birth to the children and we know officers have wives.
It is never said only slaves give birth. It is however said Centurions do not have wives, by Sawyer himself. This makes it canon, no question.
We also know that no faction in the game or society in real life rapes their women or beat them on such a massive scale that you suggest
I never said it was a constant public orgy. But evidence points to the fact it is tolerated and overlooked, since they're ''just'' slaves.
but I would love to hear why you think they do rape more than just their slaves.
Gee, I don't know, if you are capable of raping a slave, why not an hypothetical wife? You (as in, the Legionary) have proven you are not above raping women, so any future relashionship is suspect at best.
Second, thinking it is okay to beat a man or kill him and not women is sexist
True, it's just being an asshole unfit to rule. Which isin't any better. Remember this discussion is not about the fine points of the Legion, but why one would find themselves unable to support them.
Third, so you are saying that it wasn't the Legion's ability to absorb a tribes children and indoctrinate them, making them soldiers or other indoctrinators, and the slave labor that makes the Legion successful. This strategy is only successful because of gender roles.
NCR has absorbed many, many communities with great success, and it has little notions of gender roles, I fail to see how they are so neccessary. Also, Caesar himself states total war was THE concept that granted him victory; the tribes had never thought about it, it caught them completely by surpise.
but it would be conjecture applying it to all their areas of society
Quoting Sawyer again;
Remember that Caesar's Legion is basically a roving army that continually breaks down and absorbs tribes that it conquers.
The Legion is the Legion; all men are soldiers or slaves, all women are slaves, prestresses, and, possibly as they are never mentionned, ''citizens'' (but then again, for that model to work you would need male citizens, and they are all either slaves or soldiers. So what gives?). There are no other aspects to their society.
That too is conjecture, but based on the logic they haven't died as a group they have to have these functions.
Which is what I have been saying since the beginning; the Legion's structure doesn't make sense. You can't be a ''roving army'' and still hold 4 States in perfect security while having an economy strong enough to support years-long military campaign. Even the Mongols, the closest thing to the Legion we know, were more complex and organized than just a ''roving army''.
The Legion's reason for being surprised wasn't as you said in the previous post "We hate all women so why is this one helping us?" It was "Why is this outsider helping us, when we just rape her gender when we capture them?"
Because hating women is not the same as capturing and raping them, OK, makes sense. I am sure Mary over there being raped by Caius Jerkitus is happy to know he doesn't hate her, it's for the good of the Legion after all. And he certainly isin't enjoying it. Indeed, he rapes her because he loves her, in fact. Do I need to add more sarcasm to get the point across that rape is motherfucking rape, no matter how you look at it or how ''justified'' it is?
I don't know what you mean by "I hope for much Actually's soon."
Haven't been here long, have you. It's Ausir (keeper of the Wiki, amongst others) catch phrase when he corrects lore mistakes of people.
The Red Army in WW2 invented the term "mass-rape" when they went through Germany, but they never did anything like that in their own country.
Because it was used as a weapon, while the Legion does not explicitely have this ''excuse''. And also because there has never been blood more bad than between Nazi Germany as a whole (unfortunately for the women) and the USSR.
That could be just some twelve year olds made up rankings for the Legion.
Ausir and co are more profesionnal than that, especially on the subject of a page about a so major faction.
Also, we know that they don't let adults into their army they kill them if they are male and enslave them if they are female you said that yourself before, it is not a matter how able-bodied they are.
But captured or born children can be frail of constitution, especially since being a slave without any medical assistance would lead to tons of birth-related problems (it's a wonder the Legion actually has enough strong young men to sustain itself to me). This would create not able-bodied males.
Conjecture is the only way to have the Legion make sense.
Bingo. That's yet another reason why I can't possibly side with them; they only make any sense by extrapolation and guesswork. While other factions don't need so much excuses and conjectures to work.
The good of the Legion is also good for the women in their society as well based off of my earlier theories
Which are only that, theories. In-game and Word of God information says every women in the Legion is looked down upon and suffers a meserable life.
Next, yes I defend a society that understands, that in humanities last throes, you must do things that were once considered immoral.
What.The.Hell.Is.That.Excuse. Seriously, humanity is in it's last throes? There are whole cities watched by Pre-War entities; there are thriving tribes (see Honest Hearts, and how the coming of the Legion sparks the conflict there). There is an almost million-strong democratic Republic, how the hell is humanity in it's last throes? It's simply a very fimsly excuse made up by Caesar to justify his power grab. You really should know better.
but in a world were giant lizards go around eating people daily you must have priorities.
And this is related how?
And yes it would have been great to see a Legion town but we do not, so I used logic to reason out what their towns would be like.
Except in-game information (especially the fact everybody in the Legion is either soldier or slave) suggest there is no civilian life in the Legion. Yes, it doesn't make sense, but that's what it is. Anything else is speculation. And since we can only make conclusions based on what we see, the worst one is hardly a stretch, given we see an army of savages bent on conquest.
No I did not mean rape I meant the comments they give to a female courier in the Fort. Servicemen do that all the time.
Which suggest what they would do if the female Courier wasn't off-limits. The simple fact you walk among them without a collar and a slave's tunic obviously angers them. I really doubt any but the most douchebag-y soldiers walk aroung making that kind of stupid comments.
but the men are the ones who always organize the violent slave rebellions throughout history, and the Legion doesn't want to make a gamble
Boudica.
The Legionaries also don't feel its evil to beat their slaves, because to them the slaves aren't people.
I don't care they were raised that way, it means the Legion insitutionalizes barbary and is not worthy of my support.
I didn't say it was justified arguing that is impossible
Yet that's the point of the thread, is the Legion justifed or not. If you say no, then the discussion ends here. If they think killing slaves in an arena makes them more manly, more power to them. They still get their asses handed to them by a bare-fisted women. And because ancient Romans found it cool doesn't mean we have to.
And it is mentioned they have wives, but yes you are right not explicitly mentioned
??? You are contradicting yourself in one sentence? And as stated they do not have wives.
And It isn't stated what has higher power when it comes to canon
You don't need canon or extrapolation to see that, in a society where martial might is the highest value, the warrior is more important than a glorified nurse. If prestresses had power, we would know it.
The Romans.
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