IGN Fallout 3: Six Hours of Exploration

PiCroft said:
If this game had no connection to Fallout whatsoever, except the general theme, would some of the complaints here still exist?
Not from me. For that matter, if they just took the 3 off and gave it an appropriate spin-off title, I'd have a lot less problems with it.

By the way, I have been called a liar and a fool in this thread and have recieved a strike for responding in heat to the liar accusations. I still apologise for my eariler behaviour, but am I to expect fair treatment here, or am I to expect favoritism against me due to my non-orthodox views?
It's something that tends to happen when someone comes in here like they're strolling in off the dusty internet trail with all the answers we never thought of ever before, but then displays a lack of understanding of the subject at hand and doesn't really have much that's new to say.

Your willingness to step back and take another look at things in light of this is respectable, though. Something to keep in mind, though, is that an "I don't care" attitude is not particularly taken kindly to in these discussions. "I don't care" does not help anything at all, and "you shouldn't care" helps even less (if that's possible).
 
so you haven't heard the "zomg most immersive fallout to date" or the "improved oblivion engine" "lifelike radiant AI" and "true to the series while going in a totally different direction, but still awesome" hype?

only game of the year at e3? really?
 
mandrake776 said:
I dunno, the only real hype I've heard is people giving it Game of the Year buzz, which Oblivion got. It makes sense to think that they have a chance of making another game of the year if only because of their previous success.

This is the funniest thing about Bethesda hype.

Oblivion actually lost a lot of the key GotY races. It lost to Gears of War on Shacknews, OXM Magazine and GameSpot. It was 360 GotY on GameSpy but not PC GotY, losing to Company of Heroes. It lost out to Legend of Zelda: The Twilight Princess on 1up.

Yet Bethesda's hype is so efficient we don't even remember reality. If I hadn't taken the time to actually do some fact-checking I too would remember Oblivion as a major Game of the Year title, but the fact is it mostly lost GotYs on major sites and magazines and mostly won the title on minor websites.
 
Brother None said:
This is the funniest thing about Bethesda hype.

Oblivion actually lost a lot of the key GotY races. It lost to Gears of War on Shacknews, OXM Magazine and GameSpot. It was 360 GotY on GameSpy but not PC GotY, losing to Company of Heroes. It lost out to Legend of Zelda: The Twilight Princess on 1up.

Yet Bethesda's hype is so efficient we don't even remember reality. If I hadn't taken the time to actually do some fact-checking I too would remember Oblivion as a major Game of the Year title, but the fact is it mostly lost GotYs on major sites and magazines and mostly won the title on minor websites.
Regardless it was a major contender in almost all of them, which means that it was at its root, a pretty damn good game. I understand not everyone liked it, and I'll be the first to admit it's flawed, but I had a damn good time with it playing just the PS3 versoin without the shivering isles expansion.

As far as Bethesda's hype machine goes, the only reason I knew it had won that title anywhere is that they released a version with game of the year edition on it.
 
mandrake776 said:
Regardless it was a major contender in almost all of them, which means that it was at its root, a pretty damn good game.

By this logic, all major TOP 10 music charts contain "pretty damn good songs", as opposed to: "songs which appeal to a lot of people because they are easy to digest".

Of course, they can be produced really well and they are usually marketed even better, but I would say that's absolutely _no_ guarantee for a song with 'soul' or thoughtful content.

Same goes for Oblivion. It was produced well (by produced, I mean it had pretty sceneries, a lot of shining, and if you just saw someone play it for a while it might seem like a very solid game. I do realise it had tons and tons of game-breaking bugs and some incredibly sloppy design), but it was _marketed damn well_. And that combined with an outwardly pretty game makes a good seller.
 
SpeaK said:
By this logic, all major TOP 10 music charts contain "pretty damn good songs", as opposed to: "songs which appeal to a lot of people because they are easy to digest".
No. That's based on sales. This is based on what critics think. I'm doing an appeal to authority, you're thinking of appeal to popularity.

Same goes for Oblivion. It was produced well (by produced, I mean it had pretty sceneries, a lot of shining, and if you just saw someone play it for a while it might seem like a very solid game. I do realise it had tons and tons of game-breaking bugs and some incredibly sloppy design), but it was _marketed damn well_. And that combined with an outwardly pretty game makes a good seller.
I saw none of the advertisements for it. Not even a little bit of them, and I picked it up six months ago based on word of mouth. I thought it was fun. Yeah, some of the bugs are pretty fucking terrible though. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it was all I played for quite some time.

EDIT: For the record, when Oblivion came out, I had a 1 month old daughter and was starting a new job and living in a new place with no platform that could conceivably play it.
 
mandrake776 said:
No. That's based on sales. This is based on what critics think.

And you make a mistake by thinking that game critics, game journalists know what they're talking about and have at least slight idea about video games.
Well, most of them don't. They think that real-time is evolution of turn-based, that Todd is the mastermind behind the TES and Fallout series and that FPP is new.
In reviews by that kind of people, there's no "critical" factor. It's all LOL DIS LOOKS COOL XD
 
mandrake776 said:
No. That's based on sales. This is based on what critics think. I'm doing an appeal to authority, you're thinking of appeal to popularity.

If a critic working on a magazine does a TOP 10 of latest singles, I bet you it will not contain any underground tracks, only big ones already marketed well. This is a generalisation of course, but I think it holds up pretty well with most magazines / critics.

mandrake776 said:
I saw none of the advertisements for it. Not even a little bit of them, and I picked it up six months ago based on word of mouth. I thought it was fun. Yeah, some of the bugs are pretty fucking terrible though. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it was all I played for quite some time.

The fact that you didn't see the advertisments doesn't mean all that much, because they WERE very visible, and secondly, the fact you heard it through word of mouth doesn't necessarily mean "it has to be a good game" in a marketing giant like Oblivion. It might very well just mean that practically everyone has heard about it, which means you can't avoid hearing about it from other gamers.

Oblivion had its moments for sure, and I do realise a big amount of people like it and enjoyed it, but in my books that does not equal a "good game at its root".
 
Yeah, I edited that post to show why I might have missed any and all advertisements for Oblivion.

The word of mouth I heard was more along the lines of "best RPG for the PS3" than anything else. Which, upon closer reflection means "it's one of three RPGs for the PS3".

I will state again though, that I thought it was actually a really good game that was in dire need of another patch or two.
 
mandrake776 said:
I dunno, the only real hype I've heard is people giving it Game of the Year buzz, which Oblivion got. It makes sense to think that they have a chance of making another game of the year if only because of their previous success.

Because it is Bethesda, there are a few things I'm hoping they will put in and modding is one of them. Oblivion itself went from being pretty good to awesome primarily in my opinion due to the user-created content.

If users are able to create their own stuff for Fallout 3, it would improve my opinion of the game drastically. As it stands, I still remain enthusiastic about it.
 
PiCroft said:
If users are able to create their own stuff for Fallout 3, it would improve my opinion of the game drastically. As it stands, I still remain enthusiastic about it.
That's about where I stand.

I wonder what the cast would be like in a Fallout film? Or, which characters they would actually include in the movie?
Hey, can we not play semantics?

Umm... that's not what I meant to quote, this is:
Note: there are no game critics on any mayor gamesite, only game pre-/reviewers.

Not sure how that happened.
 
mandrake776 said:
The word of mouth I heard was more along the lines of "best RPG for the PS3" than anything else. Which, upon closer reflection means "it's one of three RPGs for the PS3".
Yeah that's about as prestigious as winning a beauty paegent in Newark.
 
PiCroft said:
See, the bolded part is where I think many of the problems lie. This isn't just another game that offers absolutely nothing, its Fallout. And its for that reason that I think its getting such a hard time from people.
Bethesda's excuse for changing fallout 3 into a first person action game are because they wanted to evolve and innovate, yet there is nothing new to see in Fallout 3. Its obvious that it is just easier for them to make a slightly improved oblivion set in an adolescent's re-imagining of fallout's east coast.

PiCroft said:
I seriously doubt some of the complaints about it would even be getting tossed as much as they are getting here around if it were a stand-alone without the Fallout title. And given that assumption, it gives me reason to doubt the sincerity of a lot of the complaints.
Like I said, I like all genres of video games, but that doesn't mean I want a turn based rpg to become another real time action game. As another mindless fps fallout 3 would get a pass because there is no reason for it to have the same standard of turn based combat and intelligent, witty story/lore/setting/dialogue as fallout. You are correct that it would not get as much hostility but fail to understand why?

PiCroft said:
If this game had no connection to Fallout whatsoever, except the general theme, would some of the complaints here still exist?
That is pretty spot-on, Fallout 3 has no connection to fallout whatsoever except for the general theme, the fallout name, and as the 3rd canon game in the series. Bethesda's omission of everything fallout outside of a name is the problem.

PiCroft said:
A difference of opinion does not piss me off.
Really?

PiCroft said:
If someone thinks a game sucks because of a silly feature or particular "way" a game works, and they only complain about it not because the feature itself is bad (Hence my comment on them complaining about Afterlight's cartoonish character animation), but because the game is connected to pet game of theirs of which they are over-protective, then I think I am in the right to call them on it. I'm more than happy to tear a game apart based on its own merits. Which is not what they were doing.
You have just described a difference of opinion and why you got pissed off about it. You enjoying how certain "silly" features work, and then assuming everyone else enjoys them just as much but complains about them in spite, is astoundingly dense. Not everyone enjoys what you do, people have different opinions about what they enjoy in video games. You don't have to "call them on it" for not liking exactly what you do, most people acknowledge that we are all different, liking something that they don't isn't going to blow anyone's mind.

PiCroft said:
By the way, I have been called a liar and a fool in this thread and have recieved a strike for responding in heat to the liar accusations. I still apologise for my eariler behaviour, but am I to expect fair treatment here, or am I to expect favoritism against me due to my non-orthodox views?
Fair treatment has been given, you could have been the poster child for "complaining about complainers." It isn't the most productive thing to do especially when you are getting angry and saying the same things that have been noted and explained time and again recently in this very forum.
 
beverageleverage said:
an adolescent's re-imagining of fallout's east coast.

As another mindless fps fallout 3

Fallout 3 has no connection to fallout whatsoever except for the general theme, the fallout name, and as the 3rd canon game in the series. Bethesda's omission of everything fallout outside of a name is the problem.

This is the stuff I think he's saying is ridiculous. And it is.
 
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