In terms of canon?

Well whether it's Black Mesa or Area 51, don't forget to include one of these, an inflatable base top and fake mountain thingy:

2255972719_97eb55c9e7_o.jpg


At Strange Harvest via Subtopia via Modern Mechanix

I guess even the Chinese in 2077 would have spy gear that would keep them from being fooled.
 
DarkPhilly said:
Well basically I'm batting ideas around, for how the BOS got to the east.

It does contain a lil sci-fi junk but I usually think out loud so here goes...

The American Government prior to the Great War began research on physics and particle movement (or A51 was working on small particle movement implementations ). However when the "Bombs began to fall" Area 51 (or another incantation thereof) was a priority target for the Chinese.

An experiment which was currently ongoing in one of the various labs, was flooded with radiation; during which the particles grew to surround an entire room. Due to the composition of these particles and with the introduction of radiation, the particles became unstable and random.


Well you can guess the rest, Location of BOS in relation to Area 51 etc etc. Brotherhood investigates A51, Lyons (or whatever the fuck his name is) leads an expedition and they enter the research room. Feeling nauseous and their vision starting to blur, the radiated particles begin to play havoc on their cellular structure, shifting them in and out of phase with normal reality.

The randomized particles (in contact with the expedition) teleport them to DC (haven't worked out this part in entirety). As a result Lyons and some of his band, receive distinct brain chemistry abnormalities changing the way they think and act. While not all of the expedition are affected, only 25% are unharmed.

Thus we see the crazy Lyons going against everything the BOS stands for.

Yes this kinda sucks, yes its not done, yes I don't know jack shit about physics and particle movement, and yes This is a better story(than what Beth came up with) I came up with in under 20 mins while I should have been looking over TCP/IP notes. Meh

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


No it really isnt a better story then what Bethesda came up with. Its in fact much much worse. I really dont see whats wrong with the way they wrote it. Its not like the BOS is some sort of hive mind that only operates for the good of the colony. They can think on their own and honestly it was only a matter of time before someone in the group wanted to help the people of the wasteland or developed a savior complex.
 
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
... Its not like the BOS is some sort of hive mind that only operates for the good of the colony. They can think on their own and honestly it was only a matter of time before someone in the group wanted to help the people of the wasteland or developed a savior complex.
Click to expand...

Even so, the fact that Bethesda is sending them across the entire country is in direct contrast to their character. Even if someone wanted to leave and help people, the odds of a small band of BOS soldiers making that march make the idea poorly imagined at best.
 
I dont see how its a direct contrast of their character to send an expedition to the east because they have sent people to the glow and if you count fallout 2 as cannon they even set up bases in different areas.

As for the odds of them making the march, if you mean would they be able to survive it I think they could. They should be able to fend off raiders and such without too much trouble and they might be able to get supplies at other settlements that may have sprung up in other parts of the country.
 
generalissimofurioso said:
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
... Its not like the BOS is some sort of hive mind that only operates for the good of the colony. They can think on their own and honestly it was only a matter of time before someone in the group wanted to help the people of the wasteland or developed a savior complex.
Click to expand...

Even so, the fact that Bethesda is sending them across the entire country is in direct contrast to their character. Even if someone wanted to leave and help people, the odds of a small band of BOS soldiers making that march make the idea poorly imagined at best.
Click to expand...

IIRC, the BOS of Bethsoft's creation went to DC on a mission to search the Pentagon for technology, not to try and help the people of the DC. It was not until later that the Brotherhood of DC split into those who wanted to help the people of DC and the ones who wanted to continue the original mission.

I can see why they'd have the will and want to go the DC for that purpose but I dont understand the means.

Of course in Tactics the BOS got as far as Chicago with airships, but im not sure if thats very canon. And even if its not entirely canon it shows that the mighty BOS even with the technology of airships was not able to reach the East Coast because of the complications of such a long journey.(In the case of Tactics the complications were weather related, a lightning storm destroying the main airship to be exact) The BOS being an advanced military organization would have probably seen the major risks involved in such a long journey and would probably not have sent an expeditionary force to D.C. it seems to me.



Maybe I just dont understand the BOS very well or I dont understand Bethsoft's story very well but I agree that its probably unlikely that the BOS would go as far as the East Coast.
 
Pretentious said:
IIRC, the BOS of Bethsoft's creation went to DC on a mission to search the Pentagon for technology, not to try and help the people of the DC. It was not until later that the Brotherhood of DC split into those who wanted to help the people of DC and the ones who wanted to continue the original mission.
Click to expand...

I was aware of the original intent of the mission to DC and that the split occurred after they got there. Sorry if I didnt make that clear. I didnt count Fallout Tactics as cannon because I dont think most people do, so I didnt even count airships or vertibirds into the equation.

Now dont get me wrong I dont think including the BOS in Fallout 3 to either pander to the fans or because they think its cool was a good idea but they did it and they needed a reason for them to be there and I think it works fine.
 
Well I hope they fill in the gaps on how exactly the expeditionary force got to East Coast.

If they went on foot it would have probably taken them years and I doubt, considering the harshness of post-war USA, they would have survived even with their technology and gathering supplies from towns/villages/cities along the way. I mean think about the Louis and Clark expedition across the United States but with the extreme added dangers of the wasteland. Even with BOS might, it would be extremely risky it seems to me.
 
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
I dont see how its a direct contrast of their character to send an expedition to the east because they have sent people to the glow and if you count fallout 2 as cannon they even set up bases in different areas.

As for the odds of them making the march, if you mean would they be able to survive it I think they could. They should be able to fend off raiders and such without too much trouble and they might be able to get supplies at other settlements that may have sprung up in other parts of the country.
Click to expand...

The fact is that the Brotherhood won't put their own technology at risk in some faulty attempt to get more of it. That's why they sent a small team to the Glow and then when they didn't come back, they didn't pursue it further. Hence why they send you there if you want to join, since they were sure that you'd never really make it there and back.

As for the bases, (not to sound like I'm being an ass or anything) but did you notice how many people were in each of those bases? By the time Fallout 2 took place, the Brotherhood was collapsing under it's own xenophobic policies and wouldn't have the manpower to make it across the entire country. Even with Power Armor and heavy weapons, they'd still be marching across incredibly hostile ground and the odds of making it across would be almost negligible with the kind of manpower the Brotherhood has.
 
Here are some maps for anyone who wants to know in very good detail where area 51 is.

I think vault 15 basically IS area 51.


Fallout NorCal
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5555/map2rg9.jpg

fallout SoCal
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5833/falloutmapnn9.png

California city map
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2195/californiamapfm3.gif

Area 51 (its the blue thingy)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5223/area51dj8.png


I wonder what happened to Sacramento (the city I live in), its a pretty big town, its the capitol of Cali too. Just halfway between San Francisco and Reno irl.

Also, the Glow is some weird place northeast of San Diego and Tijuana, I never could figure out if it was supposed to be something real.

The Brotherhood appears to be near a city called Visalia, halfway between Bakersfield and Fresno.

I also believe that Necropolis is supposed to be a horribly misplaced Las Vegas as there are no other cities of any notable size in that area.

Also, Redding is in the wrong spot too, its about 150 miles southeast of where it is supposed to be. In the game, its a little east of where Chico currently is, andf its supposed to be farther north, approximately where the Den currently resides in FO2.
 
Necropolis is Bakersfield. Read the holodiscs you get.

EDIT:

You gotta love Google maps.

The Hub more or less matches the location of the town of North Edwards or Boron.

LA was a bit hard to pinpoint, primarily because the two nukes ripped out quite a bit of land to the sides of the city.

Necropolis isn't highlighted on GE, but it appears to be Barstow.

Shady Sands, being a post-nuclear community, can't really be pinpointed. There's a lot of canyons there, though.

Damn, the more I try to fit it, the more the geographical features are out of line. The coastline below LA in Fallout is much more inland, having consumed San Diego by 2161.

I give up.

When overlaying the Fallout 2 map, my brain went *poof*. The only thing that roughly aligns is Mariposa.
 
Necropolis is BAKERSFIELD!?

Dude that is WAYYYY off, haha.

It does infact appear to be Barstow, but Barstow isn't that big of a city... haha. Then again, future, lots could have been added to certain cities.

You can also see the massive crater on the southern coast of Los Angeles too, that shit looks wicked.


Also, New Reno and San Frncisco appear to be in roughly the right spots.
 
Fallout is said to be Bakersfield but is misplaced on the map. Given that the maps are generally not very faithful to the actual placement of the cities when overlaid with a real map, I'd go with the in-game text.
 
Ausir said:
Fallout is said to be Bakersfield but is misplaced on the map. Given that the maps are generally not very faithful to the actual placement of the cities when overlaid with a real map, I'd go with the in-game text.
Click to expand...

Which part does it say that btw? Is it possible that the holodisk had a messy confusion of some sort? My explanation for the movement of redding has always been that they named the town redding after finding old maps, but they arent the original redding. maybe the same for the necropolis?
 
xdarkyrex said:
Ausir said:
Fallout is said to be Bakersfield but is misplaced on the map. Given that the maps are generally not very faithful to the actual placement of the cities when overlaid with a real map, I'd go with the in-game text.
Click to expand...

Which part does it say that btw? Is it possible that the holodisk had a messy confusion of some sort? My explanation for the movement of redding has always been that they named the town redding after finding old maps, but they arent the original redding. maybe the same for the necropolis?
Click to expand...

It's a PREwar Vault Location Holodisk:

Vault Locations v34.129
From The Vault

Hello, and welcome to the latest edition of the Western United States Vault Location Pamphlet. We hope you enjoy the pamphlet, and remember Vaults are not just for the upwardly mobile, but for everyone.

Vault 12

Under the sprawling metropolis of Bakersfield, lies the technological magnificence of Vault 12. Built with every amenity in mind for the prospective Vault Dweller, Vault 12 was given the "Pressed Vault Suit" award for attention to preparedness. Buried far underground, the protection that Vault Dwellers will receive will be unprecedented. Much like all other Vaults, Vault 12 has been fitted with the newest in Vault Water Purification Systems. Able to take even the waste located in the sewers of Bakersfield, this system is able to deliver over 15,000 gallons of pure, refreshing drinking water every day.


Vault 13

Located in a scenic mountainous region northwest of Vault 12, this Vault offers an endless supply of pure water to the inhabitants. The rumors that the water table in the area could easily be contaminated in the event of a Nuclear War have been found by the Department of Water and Power to be completely unfounded. In the event that the water in the area were to become tainted, remote even though it may be, Vault 13 has been fitted with the government approved Vault Water Purification System. Rated to work without significant loss of output for over 250,000 hours, prospective Vault Dwellers should have nothing to fear.


Vault 15

Due east from Vault 13, construction on this Vault has gone extremely smoothly. Much work was done to reinforce the walls of the third level of this Vault, to make all the future Vault Dwellers more secure in the knowledge that in the event of even a major earthquake, the regulatory computers of the Vault would continue to function. Recent tours of the newly constructed Vault, have had many a potential Vault Dweller walking away with a new found awe of the improvements done to this already impressive Vault.
Click to expand...
 
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
No it really isnt a better story then what Bethesda came up with. Its in fact much much worse. I really dont see whats wrong with the way they wrote it. Its not like the BOS is some sort of hive mind that only operates for the good of the colony. They can think on their own and honestly it was only a matter of time before someone in the group wanted to help the people of the wasteland or developed a savior complex.
Click to expand...

There are many glaring issues with the Story that Beth cooked up

1. Decline of the brotherhood
Wiki said:
After the defeat of the Master, the Brotherhood had become a shadow of its former self. No longer the sole custodian of advanced technology in the wasteland, the Brotherhood was struggling to find a new identity. After they first encountered the Enclave, they started to raise small bunkers in various cities throughout Northern California, and in 2242 they eventually came across the Chosen One, the granchild of the Vault Dweller who, with Brotherhood's help, destroyed the Master in 2162. They sent him to Navarro to retrieve the vertibird plans for them, but it is not known if they eventually got them.
Click to expand...

2. Distance

We're talking a good couple thousand miles here.
a)Radioactive Midwest ("I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest. It's a big ol' radioactive dustbowl now." - Cassidy)
b)Logistics (Food, parts, ammo are just sprawled out in the wasteland waiting to be picked up off the ground right?)
c)A FUCKING CHILD ALONG FOR THE RIDE?

3. Breaking away from brotherhood order?

What the hell was beth smoking?
 
Nothing. You don't have to smoke anything if your mind is fucked up and\or you have no imagination.
 
Yeah seriously can you imagine anyone, ever in an organization decided that they have a better way to do things and then breaking off from the group. ? That sort of thing never happens and Behtesda should be shot in the head for trying to do anything different with the characters.

I mean its pretty clear that the BOS would never change and shouldn't ever change. Maybe even the same characters could still be in charge during the time the game takes place. Maybe the game should even take place in the same area and all the same characters from the first game could come back from the dead!
 
Ding ding ding ding strike 1 for trolling.
I missed this.

Think about why the Brotherhood didn't play saviour of the world in the first place and how that fits into the world Fallout painted. As opposed to Bethesda's attempt at shiny knights.
 
Bethesda, despite their supposed "freeform" style (by way of explanation: I've played Morrowind and watched Oblivion, and quite frankly both games bored the living hell out of me, and I usually LIKE those kinds of games), seems to want to add a moral center to a game that wasn't really supposed to have one. The bleakness of Fallout is its main draw - I don't want shiny knights, I want selfish xenophobes. I don't want valiant cowboys in white hats - I want Darkwater to choke Junktown with his authoritarian rule.

Fallout is one of those few series that is willing to admit that morality is nowhere near as dichotomous and absolute as we like to make it out to be.
 
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