In terms of canon?

I wouldnt care if they were the assholes of the wasteland. I'm defending the idea that the group changing is not something completely out of left field. Also its the not the entire BOS helping the wasteland, theres even another group that will probably appear in the game that have stuck to the original mission.
 
On the (narrow) point of the FO2 BoS having been in some sort of decline, is that really borne out in the game?

The BoS outposts in FO2 are mostly just that, outposts. The sole exception probably should be the one in NCR. The BoS in FO1 was based well south of NCR/Shady Sands (near real life Camp Nelson and Lake Success). In FO2 we know that one of the 5 states making up NCR is called "Maxson", presumably after the early leaders of the BoS. The BoS could be doing all kinds of stuff in the territory of the NCR, including studying tech, patrolling borders, serving as bureaucrats/administrators/magistrates, improving agricultural output, etc.

It's really not defined in FO2 what the BoS does in the NCR, but it seems pretty certain that they are a part of NCR. Van Buren reinforced this idea.

By the way, search Google Earth for "Maxson", and you will find a Maxson Meadow in the Sierras. It's likely named after a guy named Maxson or Maxon who ran a resort somewhere outside Fresno and has a few things named after him in the area.

Necropolis (on the map) is roughly between Baker and Barstow. Baker is named after R C Baker, president of the Tonopah and Tidewater Railroad. Bakersfield is named after Col. Thomas Baker, an engineer who had a scheme to build a canal from Kern Lake to San Francisco. There's no real connection between them. Where is Necropolis really? Who knows. Maybe in the FO world, the two towns are reversed for some reason.

Some of the people who worked on Fallout 1 and 2 must have had a pretty good knowledge of California, because place names from the state (many very obscure) turn up often. There is a Wanamingo mine not far from Junktown.

Geography details courtesy of California Place Names, by Erwin Gudde
 
Vault Maker said:
On the (narrow) point of the FO2 BoS having been in some sort of decline, is that really borne out in the game?

The BoS outposts in FO2 are mostly just that, outposts. The sole exception probably should be the one in NCR. The BoS in FO1 was based well south of NCR/Shady Sands (near real life Camp Nelson and Lake Success). In FO2 we know that one of the 5 states making up NCR is called "Maxson", presumably after the early leaders of the BoS. The BoS could be doing all kinds of stuff in the territory of the NCR, including studying tech, patrolling borders, serving as bureaucrats/administrators/magistrates, improving agricultural output, etc.

It's really not defined in FO2 what the BoS does in the NCR, but it seems pretty certain that they are a part of NCR. Van Buren reinforced this idea.
Click to expand...

How many fucking times will I have to fucking post Matt's fucking dialogue file?

fcfmatt.msg said:
{100}{}{You see a man in metal armor.}
{101}{}{You see Matthew.}
{102}{}{You see a man wearing metal armor with a lightning bolt insignia on it.}
{103}{}{Hello,}
{104}{}{. What can I do for you?}
{105}{}{You answer questions?}
{106}{}{Nothing. Me come back later.}
{107}{}{You can start by answering some questions.}
{108}{}{Nothing for now. I'll come back later}
{109}{}{I think you deserve to have answers to your questions.}
{110}{}{What can I help you with?}
{111}{}{Who you guys?}
{112}{}{Why nobody mention you?}
{113}{}{Why only one person here?}
{114}{}{Me go now.}
{115}{}{Who are you guys?}
{116}{}{Why is it that nobody around here mentions you?}
{117}{}{Why do you have only one person here?}
{118}{}{I've got to go.}
{119}{}{We are a paramilitary organization known as the Brotherhood of Steel.}
{120}{}{What Brotherhood do?}
{121}{}{Okay - and what is it that you do?}
{122}{}{At one time we were the sole bastions of technology left on the planet. We set ourselves up as what could best be called 'technology police.' We hoarded the old knowledge and only doled it out in small parcels. Of course, it was only to those who we felt deserved it and had the wisdom to properly use it.}
{123}{}{And now?}
{124}{}{You said 'at one time.' What about now?}
{125}{}{Several months ago we came across a group known as the Enclave. Much to our surprise their level of technology surpassed even our own. We found this quite disturbing and considered contacting them. However, we decided on a more cautious course of action until we could determine exactly who the Enclave was, and the underlying purpose of their organization.}
{126}{}{To this end, we have reactivated small outposts near areas of Enclave activity from which we can safely observe them. Currently, we have activated such outposts in the Den, the NCR, and here in San Francisco.}
{127}{}{What you learn?}
{128}{}{Sounds interesting. What have you learned?}
{129}{}{We have found that the Enclave deals heavily in drugs, weapons, and slaves. However, these are simply trivial pursuits leading up to some higher purpose, which we have failed to uncover. We are still watching them.}
{130}{}{Why you tell all this now?}
{131}{}{Before we go any further, why tell me all this now?}
{132}{}{(sigh) The Enclave has developed vertibird technology, flying machines that allow them to move deeply into surrounding territories. Without similar technology to counter this threat, the Brotherhood would be unable to stop an invasion launched by the Enclave. We need to have vertibird technology, or a viable counter to it, for ourselves.}
{133}{}{Now, recently the Enclave established a base north of here called Navarro. It's used as a stopover point for the maintenance and refueling of vertibirds. It's my belief that such a base may have complete technical plans of the vertibirds. All I need is for someone to infiltrate the base, steal the plans, and bring them here to me.}
{134}{}{Uh... me do?}
{135}{}{Let me guess. You want me to infiltrate this base for you.}
{136}{}{Let me be frank with you,}
{137}{}{. The Brotherhood of Steel is not the power that we once were. We believed ourselves to be the sole source of technology left to mankind. Secure in this belief we have let our order decline over the years. Now we don't have the resources at our disposal to deal with the Enclave. We need your help.}
{138}{}{I am prepared to make you this offer. Perform this mission for me and I will grant you access to our facility here. The best of the Brotherhood technology will be made available to you, exclusively. What do you say?}
{139}{}{Me think about.}
{140}{}{No way. Me be going.}
{141}{}{What the hell. Me do.}
{142}{}{I'll think about it.}
{143}{}{No way. Find yourself a new chump.}
{144}{}{What the hell. I must be crazy, but I'll do it.}
{145}{}{Fair enough. Come back to me when you reach a decision.}
{146}{}{Okay. Bye.}
{147}{}{Okay, but me ask more.}
{148}{}{All right. I'll see ya.}
{149}{}{All right, but I'd like to ask you a few more things.}
{150}{}{I understand your hesitation in accepting such a mission. If you change your mind please let me know.}
{151}{}{Okay. Bye.}
{152}{}{Okay, but me ask more.}
{153}{}{All right. I'll see ya.}
{154}{}{All right, but I'd like to ask you a few more things.}
{155}{}{Excellent. Here is what I need you to do. Go to Navarro, infiltrate the base, and recover the technical plans for the vertibirds. Return the plans to me.}
{156}{}{Okay. Uh... How you think me can do this? It military base.}
{157}{}{Okay. Me go now.}
{158}{}{All right, but... Just how do think I should go about this? This is a military base after all.}
{159}{}{Fine. I'll get on it.}
{160}{}{Upon successful completion of your mission I will grant you access to our facility here. In the meantime it would be best if you got started immediately. Thank you,}
{161}{}{.}
{162}{}{Okay. Bye.}
{163}{}{Sure, but me ask more.}
{164}{}{Yeah, I'll see ya.}
{165}{}{Sure thing, but I'd like to ask you a few more things.}
{166}{}{We've had this base for years. By maintaining it at a low level with minimal staffing, never drawing attention to ourselves, we've achieved anonymity. We leave the Shi alone, and they leave us alone.}
{167}{}{Me guess...}
{168}{}{Yeah, I guess I see what you mean.}
{169}{}{Too many people in any one place can attract attention. One man in a city of many men is less noticeable.}
{170}{}{Okay.}
{171}{}{Hello again. Is there something I can help you with?}
{172}{}{No, just say hi.}
{173}{}{Yes. You answer question?}
{174}{}{No, just dropping by.}
{175}{}{Yeah, answer some questions for me.}
{176}{}{Hello. Have you thought about my offer?}
{177}{}{No. Me not think yet.}
{178}{}{Yes. Me take job.}
{179}{}{No, not yet.}
{180}{}{Yeah, I think I'll take the job.}
{181}{}{Hello. Have you changed your mind about my offer?}
{182}{}{No.}
{183}{}{Yes. Me take.}
{184}{}{No, I haven't.}
{185}{}{Yes, I'll take the job.}
{186}{}{Have you completed your mission?}
{187}{}{No, me still work on it.}
{188}{}{Me get plans.}
{189}{}{No, I'm still working on it.}
{190}{}{I got the vertibird plans for you.}
{191}{}{Well, keep working on it. I know it's a difficult mission, but I think you can pull it off.}
{192}{}{Okay.}
{193}{}{Excellent work! Let me have the plans, and I'll make a copy of them. As promised, I'll give you full access to our facilities. Thank you.}
{194}{}{You welcome.}
{195}{}{You're welcome.}
{196}{}{Navarro is relatively new and not fully staffed as yet. My sources tell me that they receive new recruits from time to time. Perhaps you could pose as a new arrival. I would suggest that.}
{197}{}{Navarro is relatively new and not fully staffed as yet. My sources tell me that they receive new recruits from time to time. Perhaps, if you went in alone, you could pose as a new arrival. I would suggest that. You could have your friends wait here.}
{198}{}{Okay.}
{199}{}{You say you 'sources.' What they be?}
{200}{}{All right.}
{201}{}{You mentioned your 'sources.' Who would they be?}
{202}{}{I had an operative go and scout the base. Her reports recently stopped; I can only assume the worst. Please be careful}
{203}{}{. I don't enjoy sending people to their deaths.}
{204}{}{Me be careful, thanks.}
{205}{}{I'll be careful. Thanks.}
{206}{}{Thanks again for all your help. You have full access to our facilities now.}
{207}{}{That is a private office.}
{208}{}{There is nothing for you in there.}
{209}{}{This is private property, so move along.}
{210}{}{How do you know who I am?}
{211}{}{How know me?}
{212}{}{We know many things.}
{213}{}{Upon successful completion of your mission I'll get the tanker ready for you, and grant you access to our facility here. In the meantime it would be best if you got started immediately. Thank you,}
#161
{214}{}{We'come.}
{215}{}{Excellent work! Let me have the plans, and I'll make a copy of them. As promised, I'll ensure that the tanker is ready for you to take out to the oil rig - just go to the computer on the upper level and hit the Go switch. I'll also give you full access to our facilities. Thank you.}
{216}{}{You we'come!}
{217}{}{Just head on in through the door there, if you like, or go on up to the tanker. It's ready to go. Good luck!}
{218}{}{So I am prepared to make you this offer. Perform this mission for me and I will prepare the tanker for you on your journey to the Enclave. What do you say?}
{219}{}{Me think about.}
{220}{}{No way. Me be going.}
{221}{}{What the hell. Me do.}
{222}{}{Okay. Go now.}
Click to expand...
 
Its no use Mikael Grizzly, it takes a lot of time for some people to get the facts.

As for the Brotherhood being part of NCR in Van Buren, they never were part of the NCR, they were even at war with the NCR in Van Buren because their leader at the time was of the opinion to take advanced technology away from ´lesser´ people.
I am not sure in which of the Fallout Bibles it was written but wasn´t it suggested that Maxson was a town built near the Lost Hills bunker that enjoyed the protection of the Brotherhood?
 
Well, I imagine that the Maxson town probably grew out of trading posts around Lost Hills set up by traders from the Hub who traded with the BoS. It was a member of the NCR, but the BoS itself wasn't.
 
In F2 BoS was weaker than before, but perhaps the Enclave made them realise that they need to prosper? If in Van Buren they could actually be *at war* with NCR, it means they'd have at least big enough force to counter NCR's numbers in men. Their Power Armor is a big asset, but NCR has some serious shit as well, don't they?
 
Ravager69 said:
In F2 BoS was weaker than before, but perhaps the Enclave made them realise that they need to prosper? If in Van Buren they could actually be *at war* with NCR, it means they'd have at least big enough force to counter NCR's numbers in men. Their Power Armor is a big asset, but NCR has some serious shit as well, don't they?
Click to expand...

From Van Buren:

In the year 2067, Senator Todd Peterson decided to build a secret bunker to house himself and his family should war break out. Senator Peterson was a wealthy man in his own right, but lacked the funds necessary for such a project. Through secret dealings with Poseidon Oil and a covert branch of the government known as the Enclave, the final funding for the project was attained. A construction sight was chosen in southern Colorado and work began.

Ten years after the construction was completed, war did indeed break out. Senator Peterson was in Washington DC at the time and, much to his chagrin, was taken completely by surprise. The senator made a desperate attempt to gather his family and reach the bunker, but his small plane never arrived. The bunker might have remained lost were it not for a surviving member of the senator's family, Ben Schilling.

In the year 2077, Captain Roger Maxson left the Mariposa military base and traveled to the secret Lost Hills bunker for the purpose of establishing a new military order. He brought with him a loyal group of followers consisting of both military personnel and scientists. Among these was Corporal Ben Shilling. It was at this time that Maxson established the Brotherhood of Steel. As the Brotherhood grew they began to look into the possibility of expanding their operations. It was then that Ben Schilling revealed the location of the Senator Peterson's bunker. The location was filed for future use.

In the year 2231, Jeremy Maxson, was leading a thriving Brotherhood of Steel. Jeremy decided that it was time to expand BOS operations into the east. He sent an expeditionary force composed of five paladins to confirm the location of Peterson's bunker. The expedition leader, Andrea Brixley, discovered the bunker, disabled its security, and opened it for habitation. For over a decade she and her fellow paladins explored the east and forged relationships with many of the tribes that inhabited the area.

In the year 2242, Jeremy Maxson renamed the bunker after his famous ancestor, Roger Maxson. He then sent a full compliment of troops for occupation. Andrea Brixley was promoted to Elder, given the rank of General, and placed in charge. The remainder of her exploratory team was given the title of Elder as well. It was not long afterward that the war with the New California Republic was announced.

For years the war waged on and was considered a victory for the Brotherhood of Steel. However, no matter how many troops fell to the Brotherhood's superior technology, the NCR always seemed to have more replacements available. The Brotherhood, however, was not so fortunate. Being an elitist group, replacements were short in arriving. It soon became obvious that the Brotherhood was doomed to loose the war to the NCR's greater numbers. Moral at the bunker began to falter as the war seemed more and more hopeless. Eventually the inevitable happened. Lower ranking members of the Brotherhood began to desert their posts.

In an effort to end the war once and for all, the Brotherhood began to use newly discovered subversive technology known as StealthBoys. These devices could create a field of energy that would bend light around the user, thus making him virtually invisible to sight. This allowed Brotherhood operatives to penetrate deep into NCR territory for the gathering of intelligence. However, it was soon discovered that the devices had severe side effects. Paranoia, delusions, and eventual schizophrenia were the major ones. The Brotherhood disallowed the use of StealthBoys and once again fell behind in their war effort.

Now the Brotherhood of Steel is facing yet another problem. The side effects of the StealthBoys were not discovered until the team using them had already begun to feel their effect. When the team was disbanded, paranoia over the reason began to set in and the team plotted against their leaders. They stole the StealthBoys, fled the bunker as deserters, and formed a covert group known as the Circle of Steel. The goal of the COS is to recover lost technology and rebuild the glory of the Brotherhood at any cost.


So the BoS is loosing the war, the COS is more like the beth BOS... without the shiny crap...


Quest from Van Buren:

5. Peacemaker:

At this point the player will be asked to end the war between the Brotherhood of Steel and the New California Republic


damn... i want VB !!!!


Sorry for my english :P
 
I'm confused - wasn't CoS in previous Fallouts?

Damn it.

Anyway, I was more or less right - BoS thrived until the war and it did send a team East. They didn't say how *far* to the East, now do they?

Is Beth's BoS is pretty similar to VB's idea or I'm just being naive?
 
I'm pretty sure the COS never appeared or was ever mentioned in any Fallout game. You may be thinking of the bad ending for the BOS in the first Fallout game. I think they were called the Steel Plague or something like that. And the idea of a splinter group with a different agenda is similar to what Bethesda is doing but the goal of the group is different.
 
In the year 2067, Senator Todd Peterson decided to build a secret bunker to house himself and his family should war break out. Senator Peterson was a wealthy man in his own right, but lacked the funds necessary for such a project. Through secret dealings with Poseidon Oil and a covert branch of the government known as the Enclave, the final funding for the project was attained. A construction sight was chosen in southern Colorado and work began.
Click to expand...

How far to the east? "Southern Colorado"
 
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
I'm pretty sure the COS never appeared or was ever mentioned in any Fallout game. You may be thinking of the bad ending for the BOS in the first Fallout game. I think they were called the Steel Plague or something like that. And the idea of a splinter group with a different agenda is similar to what Bethesda is doing but the goal of the group is different.
Click to expand...

Never appeared before because is from Van Buren... :roll: :P
 
This whole issue is seriously making me mourn Van Buren, lawl.

And the COS does sound a bit like the Outcasts of Beth's story but of course the BOS of VB could not venture into the midwest because of the "radioactive dustbowl" like some other guy said.

Also the split up in Beth's story happened after they had arrived in DC.
 
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