In terms of canon?

Yes, the BOS can change. Yes, a group could splinter off from the BOS and be philanthropic. Yes, the BOS can become shiny knights, but they weren't originally and shouldnt become this without some great change occuring within them.

But go all the way to DC? How is it not ridiculous for them to take such a journey without even the help of automobiles? Do they have vertibirds to help them now? Maybe they do have vertibirds to do the job, but I wonder whats the farthest vertibirds could go without refueling and if Matt ever got the chance to give the plans to BOS before he was killed by Horrigan.
 
Lets think outside the box for a moment, from a designer point of view, why should the Brotherhood become the saviours of the wasteland?
Because of their cool Power Armour and weaponry?
That is not much of an excuse, so every cool looking organisation in previous games that pursued their own agenda should now suddenly become heroical inclined?

Besides the NCR and the New California Rangers filled pretty much the position of hope for the future, they don't have all the fancy toys of the Brotherhood but they seem more focussed on taking out aggressive factions and rebuilding some resemblance of order.
 
Pretentious said:
Yes, the BOS can change. Yes, a group could splinter off from the BOS and be philanthropic. Yes, the BOS can become shiny knights, but they weren't originally and shouldnt become this without some great change occuring within them.

But go all the way to DC? How is it not ridiculous for them to take such a journey without even the help of automobiles? Do they have vertibirds to help them now? Maybe they do have vertibirds to do the job, but I wonder whats the farthest vertibirds could go without refueling and if Matt ever got the chance to give the plans to BOS before he was killed by Horrigan.
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I agree that the trip to D.C is ridiculous and just laziness on their part or fan service in adding the BOS to the game and I dont think it was the right thing to do.But I also think that a lot more people would have bitched and moaned if the BOS was excluded from the game. There is a certain "coolness" factor that they bring to the game that make them fan favorites. Personally, I think they should have left them in California and introduced us to something new.

My problem is the idea of the BOS remaining the same throughout a very difficult time in the world. Also, its not the entire BOS that is out there trying to save the wasteland, they are in fact a splinter group and there is another group of BOS members that are perusing the original mission. So its not a drastic change for the entire BOS, its someone within the group with a command that either out of pity or concern or god complex decides to do things differently and some of his troops follow him because they believe in his idea or they are just loyal to him.
 
BTW anyone can pinpoint me to the part of the BOS background on F3 site where they are described as "shiny knights" (not literally of course)?
 
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
I agree that the trip to D.C is ridiculous and just laziness on their part or fan service in adding the BOS to the game and I dont think it was the right thing to do.But I also think that a lot more people would have bitched and moaned if the BOS was excluded from the game. There is a certain "coolness" factor that they bring to the game that make them fan favorites. Personally, I think they should have left them in California and introduced us to something new.

My problem is the idea of the BOS remaining the same throughout a very difficult time in the world. Also, its not the entire BOS that is out there trying to save the wasteland, they are in fact a splinter group and there is another group of BOS members that are perusing the original mission. So its not a drastic change for the entire BOS, its someone within the group with a command that either out of pity or concern or god complex decides to do things differently and some of his troops follow him because they believe in his idea or they are just loyal to him.
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You are missing the point.
What Bethesda has done isn't taking the BoS and then realistically evolving it over a period of time while keeping the feel of the game intact. They've taken a random group of do-gooders in Washington DC, named it the BoS and then tried to devise a halfway plausible backstory as to why the BoS are there and act that way.

In other words, all we have is a group that calls itself the BoS but doesn't have anything to do with the Brotherhood, at all.
 
Well if thats your problem I can understand that, its just that the only responses I've seen in regards to the BOS story seem to be people who are just against the idea of the BOS changing at all for any reason.

I will have to disagree with you though. The story of the BOS in DC doesnt give me a "this is not fallout" feel. We have seen instances where BOS members have disobeyed orders or sent troops out to attack/investigate an area or set up bases in other areas. The only thing different really is the enormous distance involved.
 
ToadBoyDeluxe said:
Well if thats your problem I can understand that, its just that the only responses I've seen in regards to the BOS story seem to be people who are just against the idea of the BOS changing at all for any reason.

I will have to disagree with you though. The story of the BOS in DC doesnt give me a "this is not fallout" feel. We have seen instances where BOS members have disobeyed orders or sent troops out to attack/investigate an area or set up bases in other areas. The only thing different really is the enormous distance involved.
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I don't think I've seen any occurrences of BoS members disobeying orders, or sending out troops to protect people, or, in fact, do anything to protect the people of the wasteland.
 
I'm pretty sure the group that went to the glow did so against orders give to them by the elders. When I mentioned that they sent out troops and set up bases I didnt mean they did that to protect people. I was using that as an example to justify the reason for the trip to D.C. not the actions that what happens after they get there
 
Yeah, the group that went to the Glow was a splinter one. Then there's also Jacob, who founded Broken Hills with Marcus.
 
Again, didn't BoS in F3 went to DC to *salvage* equipment and *investigate* the Super Mutant threat? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't seem to be a save-the-world quest.....
 
Ravager69 said:
Again, didn't BoS in F3 went to DC to *salvage* equipment and *investigate* the Super Mutant threat? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't seem to be a save-the-world quest.....
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Part of the problem with the back-story is why they'd go to Washington D.C. It doesn't fit with the way the BoS operates.

The BoS, by the Fallout 2 period, was really rather weak and under manned. Most of their bases were sparsely populated. It's unlikely that they'd risk some of the few, valuable soldiers they have on a long and uncertain journey, to an area so far from their home base of operations, for advanced tech that they might not even find when they get there. Given what we've heard about the wastes of the mid-west, it'd have to be an awfully large mission for anyone to survive. And, a large mission, subtracted from the already thin ranks of the BoS, would mean they'd have all the fewer people left in the west to protect the assets they already control.

They didn't even do that with the Glow, back in the Fallout 1 era where the BoS was relatively strong. When one mission was sent and didn't report back, they stopped sending their own people.

I will say that I have no problem with the changes that came over the BoS group in terms of ideology when they make it to Washington D.C. Groups do splinter over time, and minds can change. It's just that I don't see it as being rather plausible that the BoS - especially the F2 era, significantly weakened BoS - would even send a mission across North America.
 
BOS group in DC?

About the reason why a group of BOS was sent to DC, I can think of at least one reason why. It's merged from ideology, from tech salvages and from another reason: survival.

Cursed the limitation! 1300 words are only for describe general background, progress and some other details. If I have about 100 words more I suppose that reason can be demonstrated better. As it is 1300 is pushing the limit a bit too much.
 
It's not that they couldn't make some progress after FO2....it's been some years in F3 after the action from F2 (it's *possible*). We don't know how would BIS develop further BOS history, so it's a pure speculation matter.
 
Ravager69, check the Maxson Bunker document of Van Buren.

In FO3 the Brotherhood had started to make journeys into the East but they didn't go beyond the radioactive zones in the Mid West.
 
Oh...in that case, F3's BoS is not SO far from the original idea after all.

But the argument about "shiny knights" everyone has been using....WTF??? Just because they sent an investigation team means they suddenly became saviours of the world? Or because they took VD for a ride means they are good samaritans? I know about the problem of them becoming uber-salvagers robbing people of their shit, but that's a diffrent thing, now isn't it?

I understand having reserve on what does Beth come up with, but let's at least be fair in judgement and don't exaggerate on things.
 
Ahum, check Emil's description, its pretty much the 'shiny knights' and I have no doubt that Bethesda will stick with that.
 
Yes it is the Shiny knights because thats what this group of the BOS decided they wanted to help the people of the wastes. The other group decides to follow the original mission. I'm still having trouble seeing whats so terrible about that? People with different ideas and/or experiences will do different things. We've seen differences of opinion within the BOS, we're even told that the elders in the first game dont even agree most of the time(this could be an exaggeration of the disagreements by the Elder).
 
ToadBoyDeluxe, that's so very true. Humans are different. Every groups has its own devided opinions. NCR has factions. Vault City has factions (McClure vs the Bitch First Citizen). Broken Hill, San Francisco, Redding, New Reno... all has faction. IT's unrealistic to think Brotherhood of Steel has no faction.

And it's a long time from the end of the Enclave War. Of course BOS's factions will progress in their own way with time.

The idea that BOS splinter group was sent there because of a faction fight in BOS' Elders is not far fetched at all. It's a slow death punishment, after all.

How to get there? Well, first solution is plot devices. Just because California is a desert wasteland doesnt mean the rest of North America is the same. A changed-course river like Mississipi, a newly-formed river... both will help travel time and safety.
 
laclongquan said:
How to get there? Well, first solution is plot devices. Just because California is a desert wasteland doesnt mean the rest of North America is the same. A changed-course river like Mississipi, a newly-formed river... both will help travel time and safety.
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Actually, it's been established what the world is like east of California: Harsh waste lands with huge, radioactive twisters. That is the mid-west after WWIII, and it serves to establish the reason as to why Cali is so isolated from the rest of the continent.

You can get that information from Tycho in Fallout 1.
 
laclongquan said:
ToadBoyDeluxe, that's so very true. Humans are different. Every groups has its own devided opinions. NCR has factions. Vault City has factions (McClure vs the Bitch First Citizen). Broken Hill, San Francisco, Redding, New Reno... all has faction. IT's unrealistic to think Brotherhood of Steel has no faction.

And it's a long time from the end of the Enclave War. Of course BOS's factions will progress in their own way with time.

The idea that BOS splinter group was sent there because of a faction fight in BOS' Elders is not far fetched at all. It's a slow death punishment, after all.

How to get there? Well, first solution is plot devices. Just because California is a desert wasteland doesnt mean the rest of North America is the same. A changed-course river like Mississipi, a newly-formed river... both will help travel time and safety.
Click to expand...

Now I agree with you both and Dougly but I still think that even with the help of rivers it would be one hell of a journey that I doubt the BOS would want to undertake all at once. The story of going to DC would make more sense to me if they slowly expanded to the East rather than went as an expedition.
 
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