Intelligent Deathclaws

Prone Squanderer said:
I don't "hate" intelligent Deathclaws, I just don't think they should pop up again. Though if there was a small appearance by one I wouldn't mind.
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I wonder how long Deathclaw's can live for...

It'd be cool to find Goris in the middle of a town, people being oblivious to a deathclaw being there, and for new players, make them confused on what the hell he is.

Maybe make a questline to get him as a follower again?
 
Intelligent deathclaws (ID for short) were the first deathclaws i've met, so i might be more cool with that.

I don't mind the concept, but i found the execution a bit lacking. ID are like the hidden elves in Fo2. They are secretive, appear late, are full of exposition, but have little to no impact outside their tiny settlement. I wish they had explored more how their nature would shape their relationships with the outside world, what issues they encounters, what issues they cause etc... In short, use their specific traits in a meaningfull way.

Although, i would complain more about their power drop after Fo1. They were fucking invincible in the original.
 
naossano said:
Intelligent deathclaws (ID for short) were the first deathclaws i've met, so i might be more cool with that.

I don't mind the concept, but i found the execution a bit lacking. ID are like the hidden elves in Fo2. They are secretive, appear late, are full of exposition, but have little to no impact outside their tiny settlement. I wish they had explored more how their nature would shape their relationships with the outside world, what issues they encounters, what issues they cause etc... In short, use their specific traits in a meaningfull way.

Although, i would complain more about their power drop after Fo1. They were fucking invincible in the original.
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Deathclaws in 2 are just as strong as the ones in 1.

In fact, the 'tough' deathclaws in 2 are tougher than the MOTHER deathclaw in 1.

Its just that by the time you reach deathclaws in 2, you'll be a higher level than most people in 1.

IIRC there is some dialogue detailing how dangerous the inteligent deathclaws can be to human society, and you can learn a fair bit about the mannerisms of each one.

The cut/damaged ending goes like so...

With your aid, the deathclaws of Vault 13 became a thriving community. When the vault could no longer hold their numbers, a peaceful campaign of expansion was launched to claim the surrounding lands...
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I am not opposed to the idea, even though it is a bit alien to the Fallout franchise. I would say it depends a lot on how you do it. And to do it correctly is definetly not an easy task.

However, there is no chance in hell that Bethesda would ever make it interesting or actually try to fit in the game and lore. Their idea is, if it's cool than we do it. And that is the problem. Intelligent deathclaws shouldn't be just your 'Argonians in Fallout' to say it that way, not that Bethesda is actually handling the Argonians in Oblivion or Skyrim well. Bethesda usually sees different kinds of species just as new NPCs or a different model for the player to chose from. The actuall meaning of playing a different species or the fact that there might be some really heavy racism involved? Nada. Forget it! To heavy as a topic! To much of a limitation for the player! Can't do that, or little Timmy would cry and his mom would see her head explode. I mean we're talking about a company that thinks their players are so stupid and trigger happy mongoloids, that they can't deal with killable quest guivers.

What Bethesda thinks their players must look like:
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So yeah ... better not to see talking death claws in future games, at least as long Bethesda is working on it.
 
I can see why people don't like them though, they're a little silly compared to the grimdark city of New Reno, or the morals of whether the Master was right or wrong.

They're giant talking lizard people who are eerily friendly.

But I like them like that! ;D

I kinda liked Fallout 1 (First 'classic' fallout I played) because it depicted the Ghouls as friendly sods who just want to be left alone and helped.

I find that if I accept shambling corpses falling apart as people, why not giant lizards?
 
I think part of it has to do, that Fallout was always about Human Missery, for the lack of better words. Both Ghouls and Super Mutants have been humans at some point. Ghouls in particular are really just radiated humans. So they are the effect of the great war and everything that came with it. Giant talking Lizardpeople are not really a problem for it self, it just feels like it would push the game in a direction it never really was supposed to deal with.

I can only speak for my self, and It's not that I hate it, I actually like the idea. But I have no clue on how to make it Fallouty if you know what I mean. I mean plenty of ideas sound great for the game, but how to make them actually make them a part of it, where it is enriching the IP rather than just delluting it ... is a whole different question. Like I said, I don't want to be the Argonian version of Fallout ...
 
Crni Vuk said:
I think part of it has to do, that Fallout was always about Human Missery, for the lack of better words. Both Ghouls and Super Mutants have been humans at some point. Ghouls in particular are really just radiated humans. So they are the effect of the great war and everything that came with it. Giant talking Lizardpeople are not really a problem for it self, it just feels like it would push the game in a direction it never really was supposed to deal with.

I can only speak for my self, and It's not that I hate it, I actually like the idea. But I have no clue on how to make it Fallouty if you know what I mean. I mean plenty of ideas sound great for the game, but how to make them actually make them a part of it, where it is enriching the IP rather than just delluting it ... is a whole different question. Like I said, I don't want to be the Argonian version of Fallout ...
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I think Argonians in lore are a hell of a lot better than the game ones.

The games never dwell on their backstory and such.

Fallout 2 didn't really have the time or tech to get all nitty gritty with the smart deathclaws, but they had matriarches which changed with each clutch of eggs, alphas, were fairly friendly, but DID attack people when desperate.
 
Crni Vuk said:
What Bethesda thinks their players must look like:
maxresdefault.jpg
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That's not far off the mark.

j/k

Crni Vuk said:
I can only speak for my self, and It's not that I hate it, I actually like the idea. But I have no clue on how to make it Fallouty if you know what I mean. I mean plenty of ideas sound great for the game, but how to make them actually make them a part of it, where it is enriching the IP rather than just delluting it ... is a whole different question. Like I said, I don't want to be the Argonian version of Fallout ...
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Perhaps if they're intelligent but don't speak English and don't act very humanlike.

Honestly though the IDs were a result of the Enclave and given the IDs were mostly wiped out there's little chance of them returning.

Found this on the wiki:
  1. ↑ The Fallout Bible is mixed as to whether Xarn and Goris could reproduce and save the intelligent deathclaw breed. In a March 11, 2002 update, John Deiley (the creator and designer of much of the talking deathclaw content) wrote:
    In any case, there is a chance that two intelligent deathclaws survived to continue on the species. I realize that they are both males, but that is fine. When they were engineered by the Enclave, the intelligence gene was made male specific and dominant. What this means is: Any intelligent male that mated with a non-intelligent female would (most likely) produce intelligent offspring.
    However, in a later (July 10, 2002) update of the Fallout Bible, Chris Avellone denied that the intelligent deathclaws lived, writing:
    BTW, the talking deathclaws were destroyed at the end of Fallout 2. Xarn and Goris did not go on to create a new species. They are gone. Kaput. In-game spelling, punctuation and/or grammar Goodbye. In fact, any mutant animal that talks can safely be assumed to have died at the end at the exact minute that Fallout 2 was over.
    Any last words, talking animals?
    I thought not.
    These two possible fates of the intelligent Deathclaws are not considered canon anymore, making it further unclear as to whether the race is still around or not.
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If IDs really had to make an appearance in future I wouldn't mind seeing Xarn and/or Goris again, perhaps lamenting their fate as the only two IDs left and how their children are not the same as they are.

If, and I mean IF it was done right, aka not by Bethesda. When I see Deathclaw and Bethesda in the same sentence, I think of this:

 
I really don't want Bethesda to handle intelligent Deathclaws because they would make it really dumb. I'm not asking for a full settlement of intelligent Deathclaws, maybe like a small group or even just one which you can recruit to be a companion.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
I think Argonians in lore are a hell of a lot better than the game ones.

The games never dwell on their backstory and such.

Fallout 2 didn't really have the time or tech to get all nitty gritty with the smart deathclaws, but they had matriarches which changed with each clutch of eggs, alphas, were fairly friendly, but DID attack people when desperate.
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Admit it, at this point you just want death claw porn :P.
 
I would love to see some dark dungeon in which you have to face an horde of hostile intelligents (non necessary talking) deathclaws, as a treat that should be taken seriously.

For instance, let's say we had intelligent deathclaws instead of ghost people in dead money. Intelligent deathclaws able to avoid all the traps, throw grenades, open doors, use the Sierra madre currency to generate food or other items, can detonate your collar by attacking it directly. They also want to open the vault for other reasons, and play a big part in Father Elijah needing other people help. They might even been able to successfully disable the old man by ripping one of his arms or something.

Their intelligence would serve to enhance their treat, in the right context.
 
naossano said:
I would love to see some dark dungeon in which you have to face an horde of hostile intelligents (non necessary talking) deathclaws, as a treat that should be taken seriously.

For instance, let's say we had intelligent deathclaws instead of ghost people in dead money. Intelligent deathclaws able to avoid all the traps, throw grenades, open doors, use the Sierra madre currency to generate food or other items, can detonate your collar by attacking it directly. They also want to open the vault for other reasons, and play a big part in Father Elijah needing other people help. They might even been able to successfully disable the old man by ripping one of his arms or something.

Their intelligence would serve to enhance their treat, in the right context.
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I personally wouldn't want Deathclaws in DM, intelligent or otherwise. Ghost people fit because of their background with the city and their aesthetic. Intelligent Deathclaws are like "why are these here?" Also, good luck trying to finish the DLC with them there, normal Deathclaws already pack a punch and that's when you have your gear. Killing intelligent Deathclaws that can use grenades, detonate your collar, etc and being nearly impossible to sneak past due to their high perception with very few resources would just ruin DM.
 
For "intelligent" I'd rather go for something closer to raptors in Jurassic Park than "throwing 'nades and using vending machines"...

Humanizing them... Pfft. Next thing you know they're running a fucking pyramid scheme, making money off of wasteland fools who're naive enough to buy their shit, and wearing and tearing expensive tailor-made suits while being coked up to their eyeballs in penthouses and snorting more from the asscrack of a luxury hooker. Yeah, that's Fallout.
 
Big No -

Doesn't need to specifically be Dead money, or them having this or that specific skil. That was an example on how some strange creepy intelligent and dangerous creature could enhance the atmosphere of a pretty dark dungeon. (with few to no talking) Of course, it couldn't fit with Beth casual approach of any notion of challenge.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
.

In fact, the 'tough' deathclaws in 2 are tougher than the MOTHER deathclaw in 1.

.
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They scale to the player's level, so to speak. (not Fo3 kind of scaling)

The game introduces extremely weaker version for when you are weak (like when you reach Modoc), and by the time you meet the stronger version, you are already much stronger than them.

In Fo1, when you encounter your first deathclaw at the Hub, you will need all your skills, gear and companions at your disposal, just to survive. And then, when you reach Adytum, you still need to face them one by one.

In Fo2, i haven't reached yet Modoc that i was able to clear an entire cave of Deathclaws, without reloading once, without being afraid of taking too much of them at once.
 
naossano said:
They scale to the player's level, so to speak. (not Fo3 kind of scaling)

The game introduces extremely weaker version for when you are weak (like when you reach Modoc), and by the time you meet the stronger version, you are already much stronger than them.

In Fo1, when you encounter your first deathclaw at the Hub, you will need all your skills, gear and companions at your disposal, just to survive. And then, when you reach Adytum, you still need to face them one by one.

In Fo2, i haven't reached yet Modoc that i was able to clear an entire cave of Deathclaws, without reloading once, without being afraid of taking too much of them at once.
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In fallout 1, I remember stomping the 1st deathclaw with Ian, and a few good shots to the eyes with my 2 barreled shotgun (he had a 10mm SMG IIRC).

By the time I reached the mother deathclaw, I had some psycho though, meaning the deathclaws did like...1 damage at best.
 
I wonder why deathclaw 'claws' (IIRC Goris literally has a non-usable weapon called 'claw') don't have the piercing weapon trait...
 
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