When multiple people commit attacks all in the name of the same group it's clearly not a lone insane individual. The bus attack is just yet another example of someone attacking someone in the name of allah. It's not just "one of many lunatics", it is yet another moslem migrant attacking someone in the name of Islam.
Which only proves that crazy people exist everywhere.
Some christian attacks are in the name of god, but most of them are are mostly lunatics. With Muslims though, it's always either for the political islam or in the name of their god. How is that not a double standard for you?
You mean like the people in Belgium who set off that bomb, (...)
As I already said, some attacks have ISIS as source. I never denied that. But I have no knoweldge about all and every single attack, the investigation that was going on, what they came up with and who was behind it. Again, for the 10th time. I don't denny those attacks nor that ISIS could be behind them. But that also means that there might be many attacks which have nothing to do with ISIS, and they just claim it in their name for propaganda purpose only. And that's something we should simply recognize. One of our strength as nations and democracies is the fact that we can diferentiate and that we can deside from case to case.
So instead of fighting the people raping and murdering us we should stop fighting, open up our borders to them and start talking. Good plan.
Never said anything like that.
Conjecture. And this just circles back to what has already been discussed about how we can't vet every single ISIS member to make sure we're only attacking the "really, REALLY bad ones" while they're shooting at us. Do you think they give a fuck if a Western soldier who they're fighting against might possibly be more sympathetic than others?
Good thing that we're not in a war right now. At least not as far as I can tell. Munich is pretty lovely this time of the year, really.
To be serious though, yeah, I think we as Europeans with our democracies and ideals should really have some higher standards. If we really feel that we're defending our values here, freedom, liberty, englithement and all that stuff.
If we want to really win this, then we have to win this also with ideology. Leading trough examples. That's how I think we will win the most. Groups like ISIS are as much a threat to Islam as they are for us. Followers of Alevism for example, who are as much under the threat of radical islam as christian westerners are. And there many more schools. If the west can prove that they are the BEST protection Islam can have, then we have won a very huge point over the terrorists already! Nowhere did I said we have to take every single refugee that is in the world into Europe. But if they show up at our doorsteps, than we can't just simply ignore them either.
One example where we don't actually know at all what happened to him and you're projecting your own thoughts onto what might have maybe, possibly happened to him. Just because a few people disagree with ISIS in their territory doesn't mean we should just pack up and "fuck it" because a few dozen people in ISIS aren't "so bad".
Yes we should. Unless we are fucked up hypocrites who don't follow what we preach. Values that if you're a member of the European Union swornd to protect and abide to. Human rights, dignity etc. I know that it is hard to grant those even to the worst terrorists and criminals. But like I said, if we really want to win this conflict, then we have to win against their ideology first.
THose groups operate as network, trough propaganda, wining the minds and hearts of young muslims. Showing them atlernatives, the truth that waits for them in Syria and unmasking the lies of those religious figures and leaders is just as important like military operations.
Information is our best and most precious weapon in fighting terrorism.
And it's doing such a great job so far. We've got governments that then them slip in easy as can be and when they rape and murder people rush to defend them. With there being a new attack or assault almost everyday I'd say we've reached the point where we have to take action. And we won't run into the problem again if we stop trying to fuck around down there. We take out the people who fucked with us, we close our borders to them and we get the fuck out of there when it's over. If your country is a destabilized mess that produces massive terror attack you don't get to import your problems to our countries too. Simple as that.
Yeah, well it's not a perfect solution, if that's what you're looking for. But I would say it is a start. And it is worth a try. And just like always, complex issues, require time to solve them. Maybe you can drown a fire in gasoline and it might be even extiguished, but it takes just one spark, and it burns hoter than before.
The big problem we have, is that we're fighting a war on two fronts. A radicalisation in Europefrom the far right AND the far left while we also deal with religous terror on the othe side. And particularly the right wing and the islamic fundamentalists are made for each other. It's like a clock. Some radical starts an attack. Right wing populists have a field day. And the cycle repeats. We have to be carefull here. Or we will loose not just against the terrorists but find our self in a much more agressive and radical Europe, that also turns on it's own citizens, with harsher laws, more surveilance, restricted press, speech and increased attacks aganst minorities.
Speaking of Saudi Arabia, why is no one calling on them to take in all those moslem refugees? Why does Western Europe, a place with an entirely different culture, have to take in all of these migrants when Saudi Arabia, a country that would be a much better fit for these people, not have to take in any?
Because we're selling weapons to them.
Because islam is actually a brutal religion in practice.
So is christianity. When you put it in practise. Secularisation is a pretty big thing in western democracies. And that for a reason.
I think most of us here will agree that the Islam is in a more radical period. However, historically that makes it hardly special when you compare it to Christianity or Judaism.
The thing is not that they're actually practising Islam, but that they're claiming to do so. A religion that can so easily be twisted to justify atrocious acts is in serious need of reforms, simple as that.
When the core tenets about peace are so easily forgotten under all that crap about conquering the infidels, then that religion is shite, for fuck's sake. I don't like Christianity, either, but at least Jesus doesn't work as an example for anything more violent than going to town on money-changers in a temple.
Yes, Islam is peaceful at its core. But how can there be so many of its faithful forget about that?
Something's just fucked up with your religion if it's so easy to twist. And just claiming that the violent people don't follow Islam doesn't help, either. Reform Islam so that it is clear that it's peaceful.
No one (here) denies that!
But we're not doing our self OR the reformist movements in Islam any favour if we openly talk about closing our borders to Muslims. That's the whole point I am making.
