But again that mostly comes down to opinion, for example you could say that it is smart that now all skills are useful (there was lots of stuff you never used in 1 & 2), but yeah, it is annoying that you can max out your most useful skills quickly and get all the other ones up to 50 by level 10 or 15. Then again a mod fixes that quickly but the designers could of showed more restraint in character leveling. Still I dont see how that particularly dumbs down the game...
J.E. Sawyer lead on Fallout: New Vegas
- Thread starter Brother None
- Start date
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
no. it's not just opinion. the whole idea of SPECIAL, as defined by Tim Cain, was to be able to create whatever kind of character you wanted and still be able to solve the situation with specifically specialized characters. (ok, maybe not the whole idea. but this was a huge factor. character creation, replayability, etc)
Fallout 3 has none of this because after a short while you can do, well...whatever. and that "whatever" is sorta "UN-SPECIAL" (now that part is subjective opinion).
and the dialogue, it's bad. you can't argue that. SPECIAL and skills used to influence the way your character interacted. are you saying an Intelligent person would just repeat what the person said back to them?
I fight the good fight.
[intelligence] so you say you fight the good fight.
i'm sorry, but THAT is what is called dumbing-down.
Fallout 3 has none of this because after a short while you can do, well...whatever. and that "whatever" is sorta "UN-SPECIAL" (now that part is subjective opinion).
and the dialogue, it's bad. you can't argue that. SPECIAL and skills used to influence the way your character interacted. are you saying an Intelligent person would just repeat what the person said back to them?
I fight the good fight.
[intelligence] so you say you fight the good fight.
i'm sorry, but THAT is what is called dumbing-down.
FeelTheRads
Vault Senior Citizen
No, just a part are brainwashed, the others simply have bad taste and/or don't know any better. Can't really be wrong in a preference.
Much better when you can kill mutants at level 1 with your fists. Great role-playing right there!
Ah, sorry, you don't want an RPG, you want an action game.
Point being what? Or is this just another plea for mediocrity?
Well...
Just re-read the beginning of my post.
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
No, it's not just opinion. For instance making big guns have no strength requirement isn't "streamlining" it's...oh....let me think of the right description.....how bout catering to gamers which can't be bothered with limitations such as that. Streamlining I think is combining & consolidating similar functions into something more manageable but which leaves an established gameplay element intact.lugaru said:
So it comes back to what it always does, me not being critical enough towards one specific game for the standards of the forum. And as I’ve said before, I am comfortable agreeing to disagree since I don’t see all changes as negative, while many people do. And of course while some of the slower members will imply I’m a PR person in disguise or something to that effect I’m sure that most of you have seen that I agree about some of the games flaws (dialog, main quest) again and again, but I’m really not offended by them since I enjoyed the game.
And I don’t know why FeelTheRads assumes that he has good taste other than finding a forum that agrees with him. I’m sure that everyone on the Britney Spears forum thinks her music is tasteful. But sweeping judgments of the public at large shows a lack of empathy. Like personally I don’t like a lot of recent mainstream music, but you won’t see me trashing it because I realize it is just not for me. Likewise when I was a teen in my grunge faze I’m sure a lot of 80’s people must have thought I was pretty dumb for liking that mtv Alice in Chains and Soundgarden junk.
Still I like putting pop culture in perspective, it lets me focus on the things that matter.
And I don’t know why FeelTheRads assumes that he has good taste other than finding a forum that agrees with him. I’m sure that everyone on the Britney Spears forum thinks her music is tasteful. But sweeping judgments of the public at large shows a lack of empathy. Like personally I don’t like a lot of recent mainstream music, but you won’t see me trashing it because I realize it is just not for me. Likewise when I was a teen in my grunge faze I’m sure a lot of 80’s people must have thought I was pretty dumb for liking that mtv Alice in Chains and Soundgarden junk.
Still I like putting pop culture in perspective, it lets me focus on the things that matter.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
lugaru said:
you forget that you are at a FALLOUT FANSITE, friend. we are inevitably going to be comparing Fallout 3 to the games this site was created for...and in that light, it is dumbed down, it's watered down, it fails.
sure, they did some good things. some different things. some bad things. whatever. but they fucked up some really integral things and made a TESfan-friendly game. an easy romp with Wasteland: Exploration the game.
The game is dumbed down, put the violin down for a moment. The fact that SPECIAL really doesn't matter that much (as someone said they might not have wanted to 'punish' a player for a really bad stat assignment) - Charisma is useless due to Speech, for example, Strength is just useful for carrying weight. As I mentioned weight, they fact that your ammunition is weightless is another dumbing down of things, not to mention it unbalances the game at the end, when you've got 5,000 rounds of 5.56mm.
TwinkieGorilla said:
Oh, I know that. That is why I dont yell until I'm blue in the face, because I know that I'm in the minority here and opinions are subjective. But I like the old fallouts so I stick around, besides some people here are cool and I love how quickly the news crops up. And aparently there is no shortage of news this week...
King For A Day
King For A Day
What a brilliant re-conceptualization!
Think of leveling lugaru, or any suitable brave and fearless cosmonaut, to Pete Hines' karmic orbital energy!
Weaseling out of any collateral consequence by associating a value by location, will infer his relative spin is -- not here and not any where... before ...
candidates,
the leap one makes will be their own!
Stride large in another's aura and encounter the moment of truth --> with the possible advancement beyond abilities, "The Peter Principle", or,
with the cosmic revelation of holding the keys to The Kingdom, animate the fish soliciting shoes of a Saint Pete!
By the holy wheels of fire we'll keep a candle lit for the reentry into this small corner of reality.
All assembled in theatrical seats passing the communion popcorn in awe of the looming show and tell!
4too
King For A Day
Cimmerian Nights said:
What a brilliant re-conceptualization!
Think of leveling lugaru, or any suitable brave and fearless cosmonaut, to Pete Hines' karmic orbital energy!
Weaseling out of any collateral consequence by associating a value by location, will infer his relative spin is -- not here and not any where... before ...
candidates,
the leap one makes will be their own!
Stride large in another's aura and encounter the moment of truth --> with the possible advancement beyond abilities, "The Peter Principle", or,
with the cosmic revelation of holding the keys to The Kingdom, animate the fish soliciting shoes of a Saint Pete!
By the holy wheels of fire we'll keep a candle lit for the reentry into this small corner of reality.
All assembled in theatrical seats passing the communion popcorn in awe of the looming show and tell!
4too
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It's a good argument but I can list songs bands/whatever that despite them being "old" still are relevant today (and will probably be for a long time, hence the term "classic" or "timeless") and evoke strong approval. Why is that? Could it be the old "passion vs profits" dichotomy? Why do I still like the first Terminator the best? Why is ALIENS still my favorite of the series? It's not nostalgia.lugaru said:
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I used to not like steam....then I stopped caring after I started to realize its benefits and figured out how to tame it. As a PC gamer it is one of the things which can help save PC gaming since it cuts piracy way down. What I used to do with steam when I played the game which required it was I had steam set NOT to autostart when your computer does. Then a desktop shortcut to the game instead of steam. You double click the shortcut and steam will automatically launch with the game on a per play basis. It's not that bad. I'll take devs being able to release games for much lower cost and less loss to piracy.UncannyGarlic said:
It's like how some people want lower taxes YET all sorts of gov services as well. Makes no sense. If people want PC games to flourish then piracy needs to be cut down.
Holocausto said:
I agree that steam has some major advantages, and I dont think it needs to be running to play games. I purchased Fallout 3 on steam and it does not need to be running for me to play. Maybe it is because I use the FOSE launcher, I dont know. Still some people will always be paranoid about new things, and they have the choice to buy games in another way. And I agree about what you said earlier on things that will always be classic, I love Nosferatu and Citizen Kain and those movies predate me by decades.
Read the user terms of STEAM. It has quite a lot of benefits but its not Jesus in software or the holy grail of game purchase.Holocausto said:
Valve has quite a lot of issues in their user terms that are illegal in Germany even. Like the fact that you are not allowed to sell your software to a third party, or that STEAM can decide to shoot down your game (without even a reason), which has happend even some times. For example when your keys have been corrupted.
I dont say that I disslike STEAM I am using it for some games and its great for mods when you can download them there. But just to say one thing. I definetly do want EVERY game on steam. And I also do not see things through rose-colored glasses
I think people might get the idea cause F3 was somewhat deeper then Oblivion. But to say that. That is just naturaly. First It was somewhat based on Fallout. YOu cant make a game and not learn something from it (talking about Bethesda). And on the other hand. Its not like Bethesda had after Oblivion anywhere to go then upwards. I mean can anyone imagine a even "more" simplified Oblivion ? I dont even want to imagine that ... 
might as well just release a Pac man or Tetris RPG ... in first person of course.
might as well just release a Pac man or Tetris RPG ... in first person of course.Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I never bothered to use all the features of steam. Like I said I disabled its autostart. When I played the game (Red Orchestra BTW) steam would launch automatically then when I was done playing I'd maybe browse the steam news a little or something. This was on my old PC which was low end. I can't even remember how much memory it used but I think it was a very insignificant amount. Once something is loaded in memory it is essentially a non issue to performance (providing you have enough memory to cover it + whatever game you are running). I never noticed any sort of performance hit with it. As long as you have a decent (not even great) PC I wouldn't worry about steam sucking resources.UncannyGarlic said:
I am interested in another topic:
It's nice to see see Josh Sawyer lurking and posting on various fansites and forums, gives you at least the illusion of havin an interaction with the developer.
But can anybody explain me how he has got the time to to be hanging around on the Obsidian, Bethesda and Codex forum and so on? Sure its nice, but hasn't he got some work to get done?
Btw. Mr. Sawyer if you are reading this: I wish you good look! Hopefully we will break THE CURSE
this time.
It's nice to see see Josh Sawyer lurking and posting on various fansites and forums, gives you at least the illusion of havin an interaction with the developer.
But can anybody explain me how he has got the time to to be hanging around on the Obsidian, Bethesda and Codex forum and so on? Sure its nice, but hasn't he got some work to get done?
Btw. Mr. Sawyer if you are reading this: I wish you good look! Hopefully we will break THE CURSE
this time.
How many times to do you want to repeat "sales" in relation with "critics" when its clear that Galric showed you a few times that many of them are biased toward the developers ?zippy1 said:
Again, the quality of games is not measured by either its sales or critics when you can not be sure if those are honest or biased.
By the way, at the moment no one really knows about Fallout 3 sales. People just know that it shiped 4,7 Million copaies. Doesnt mean that it sold that much. Some "estimate" that it sold aprox 2 Million so far. If its true or not I have no clue. Only Bethesda knows for sure how much they sold.