J.E. Sawyer on key dialogue writing concepts

Crni Vuk said:
And exactly thats the issue ... I dont understand how other companies get a lot of Flak regarding that and see criticism (even biger companies) but Bethesda always gets away with it.

Because it doesn't matter if you VA retarded dialogue and characters in a retarded way. It fits the setting. If everyone in ME2 would sound the same, it would be annoying because they are clearly different characters. Oblivion and FO3 consist of 300 copy-paste cardboard-retards so why shouldn’t they sound like that too?
 
Isn't there a voice volume slider in the options menu in most games? I think I recall FOE having it.
 
Arden said:
Crni Vuk said:
And exactly thats the issue ... I dont understand how other companies get a lot of Flak regarding that and see criticism (even biger companies) but Bethesda always gets away with it.

Because it doesn't matter if you VA retarded dialogue and characters in a retarded way. It fits the setting. If everyone in ME2 would sound the same, it would be annoying because they are clearly different characters. Oblivion and FO3 consist of 300 copy-paste cardboard-retards so why shouldn’t they sound like that too?
Hmm ?

Even if you do 300 000 NPCs. You can still do generic voices that still sound "good". Drakensang river of time has really good voices for most of its NPCs (at least the German version). If this company which has NOT the size of Bethesda can do it. Why cant they ?

Also even if the generic NPCs sound like stupid retarded idiots. No reason why you cant give better voices to the important NPCs. Really neither your "dad" or this Elder or his doughter had very great voices in Fallout 3. But that might be also cause the dialogues are so piss poor written that it is probably really terrible for any voice actor to give life to that. I really cant imagine how anyone even with skill should give those characters life considering some of the dialogues they have ...

"you cant do all this, where will it end?"

"youre right. I kill my self. Go out. ... base destroyed in 5 min crap bla bla".

awesome how deep it is ...

Thing is that Bethesda does not only NOT get any criticism for that. Hell no! Many of them see their writting and such even as the best ever seen around! No surprise that some think they have also the best voice acting ... what I dont understand is how games from EA, or other big companies get criticised sometimes for it if they have bad voice acting but not Bethesda ...
 
Crni Vuk said:
And exactly thats the issue ... I dont understand how other companies get a lot of Flak regarding that and see criticism (even biger companies) but Bethesda always gets away with it.

bethesda gets critised for it tons from pretty much everyone but people still buy their games

you can sort of tell that they listened when you compare fallout 3 to oblivion because I think they got 2-3 new non-celeb voice actors
 
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Crni Vuk said:
Hmm ?

Even if you do 300 000 NPCs. You can still do generic voices that still sound "good". Drakensang river of time has really good voices for most of its NPCs (at least the German version). If this company which has NOT the size of Bethesda can do it. Why cant they ?

Because they know no shame and have no work-ethic.

Yes, the voice acting of drakensang is way beyond FO3 although I always have to think of spongebob when I hear it :).


Crni Vuk said:
Also even if the generic NPCs sound like stupid retarded idiots. No reason why you cant give better voices to the important NPCs. Really neither your "dad" or this Elder or his doughter had very great voices in Fallout 3. But that might be also cause the dialogues are so piss poor written that it is probably really terrible for any voice actor to give life to that. I really cant imagine how anyone even with skill should give those characters life considering some of the dialogues they have ...

"you cant do all this, where will it end?"

"youre right. I kill my self. Go out. ... base destroyed in 5 min crap bla bla".

awesome how deep it is ...

Money. They are paid by the hour. So you invite them to the studio, hand them the script and make one recording. No getting in character, no rehearsing, no retrys to get it right. Here’s your cash (only full hours count), goodbye, boy did you see, that was Ron Pearlman!!!

Crni Vuk said:
Thing is that Bethesda does not only NOT get any criticism for that. Hell no! Many of them see their writting and such even as the best ever seen around! No surprise that some think they have also the best voice acting ... what I dont understand is how games from EA, or other big companies get criticised sometimes for it if they have bad voice acting but not Bethesda ...

There was a lot of stuff written here at NMA about the Gamecritics that evaluated FO3. Remember the endless list of 10/10 reviews that Per posted here? The reason why the “Gamejournos” gave those absolutely ridiculous scores may vary. Some are just retards that don’t know any better, some were jumping up and down on the bandwagon, others simply could not write how they felt about the game cause their boss told them not to (exclusives, ad space, nice trips to hotels with cool hookers and, since this is Bethesda, probably the fear of a lawsuit). But if you score FO3 11/10 and hail it as the second coming, ignoring the stupid writing, the boring, static world, the bad animations, the watering down of SPECIAL and any RPG-mechanics to the point where nothing original is left….what is the point, at this juncture, to criticize the voice acting? It’s just another failing in a monumental series of pure and unadorned fail. If the “pros” did not point out the other flaws, why should they do it now? With other games-reviews the critics are probably more objective and flaws are recognized and pointed out as such.

Bethesda really has the knack of hyping a game to the point that the game-reviewers actually believe the advertising and give the game the score they and beth believe it ought to have, not what it actually deserves. Two years later there is always a bit of embarrassed shuffling of feet and off they are to rate the next hype.

The gaming-press sure isn’t what it used to be, but the only game I can think of that was treated the way they did Oblivion and FO3 was Gothic 3. And the press got a lot of flak about the way they handled that one. I just think that other companies, regardless of size, don’t put the same kind of pressure on the journos as beth does. But other developers aren’t as dependant on good reviews as beth because they often have at least one or two areas where their games are actually good.

I’m as baffled as you are that beth gets away with it every time, but they don’t get away with bad VA, they get away with bad everything. Criticizing VA in a beth-game is like tugging at a loose seam: suddenly everything unravels and there would be nothing left. Better leave things lie.
 
Bethesda uses the same voice actors in EVERY FUCKING GAME MAN THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY!!

Morrowind,Oblivion now Fallout 3 (probably new vegas too!) I'm sick of hearing the IMPERIAL or NORD voice for white males and one REDGUARD voice for black males (same goes for the females).
They are using the same fucked up Rpg Maker like engine (no wonder how many EMO japanese anime fans mods the game to their taste) for years...
Everytime i start to play fallout 3 with good intentions like you know this not fallout but its better than oblivion at least it has wasteland..BAM! I talk to some guy and immideatly goes in my head ;OBLIVION!Same voice sometimes same animations
 
Yeah, even the music and some textures. It's a very obvious oblivion 2. When I was playing Fallout 3, I actually started wanted to retry Oblivion, but I couldn't find the DVD and I was too lazy to pirate it somewhere. Later I found the DVD, and I didn't want to play it anymore. Thank god too. Morrowind is a better game in many aspects and I can't even play that one, thanks to the abysmally stupid character system that rewards absurd actions and ultra-micro-meta-gaming.
 
Legald said:
Bethesda uses the same voice actors in EVERY FUCKING GAME MAN THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY!!
That wouldn't be a problem if the actors they reuse were good. At least I've never heard anyone whining about Interplay constantly hiring people like Jim Cummings (starring in 14 games published by Interplay), Tony Jay, Charlie Adler and many others.
 
The only conversation in Fallout 3 was the one with President Eden. He sounded most personal and intelligent. Plus he sounded more like a normal human being than anyone else in the whole wasteland...which is funny 'cause he's a fuckin' computer!

All the other voice-actors and characters were just so god-damn annoying.
Ok, Moira, do I even have to explain?
The one generic voice that usually slavers, mercs and such had (ya' know, the voice that seemed to be hinting something while it wasn't?)
The generic voice that all the old people had.
The generic voice all the women had.

The list goes on. Hopefully they'll even try in NV.
 
Jim Cojones said:
Legald said:
Bethesda uses the same voice actors in EVERY FUCKING GAME MAN THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY!!
That wouldn't be a problem if the actors they reuse were good. At least I've never heard anyone whining about Interplay constantly hiring people like Jim Cummings (starring in 14 games published by Interplay), Tony Jay, Charlie Adler and many others.
From what I can understand, they are reasonably good. The problem is Bethesda records only their first attempt at reading the lines, and they don't give them the scripts before they enter the booth...
 
Jim Cojones said:
That wouldn't be a problem if the actors they reuse were good. At least I've never heard anyone whining about Interplay constantly hiring people like Jim Cummings (starring in 14 games published by Interplay), Tony Jay, Charlie Adler and many others.
Jim Cummings could probably voice act every male voice in a game like Fallout 3, not reuse a voice, and be great. That man is freakishly talented. Yeah, I'm with you, who you hire is extremely important.

Morbus said:
From what I can understand, they are reasonably good. The problem is Bethesda records only their first attempt at reading the lines, and they don't give them the scripts before they enter the booth...
Yeah that's what I sounded like from what I've read. They may not always hire the best talent but every actor is going to struggle if you shove them in a booth and have them read a script for the first time.
 
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