Jeff Gardiner on DLC again
- Thread starter Per
- Start date
Christ. Some people.
The original Fallouts were not a commercial failure by any means. They were in fact quite successful, and continue to sell copies even today.
The original Fallouts were never intended to be targetted at the mainstream gamer. In fact, the isometric, turn-based gameplay was a direct counterpoint to the real-time, FPP gameplay that was popular at the time the original Fallout was released.
There is zero real evidence that a modern release of a game in the style of the original Fallouts would not be successful today. Note: trying to make ludicrous points about 2D graphics and/or the turn-based gameplay and isometric viewpoint being a result of technological limitations are just plain fail.
Trying to claim that every company in any industry, whether it's gaming or textiles, must appeal to the exact same consumer base is the sort of thing that can only spout from the mouth of someone who has no idea what s/he is talking about. One of the best ways to achieve success as a business is to appeal to a niche consumer base where there is little to no real competition.
Any rational person should be able to see that Bethesda's huge PR-budget and the bullshit "reviews" and previews (that equate to little more than another form of advertising nowadays) almost certainly had as much, if not more, to do with Fallout 3's success as the game itself did.
Finally, appealing to "smart business sense" as some sort of excuse for sacrificing quality or integrity in your work is the sort of the thing I'd only really expect to hear from the mouth of some corporate all-about-the-bottom-line lacky, not an actual human being.
Oh, and now it's premium DLC? Hooray for meaningless adjectives added on by PR goons. It'll never really stop until people stop falling for such garbage. Which means it'll never go away.
The original Fallouts were not a commercial failure by any means. They were in fact quite successful, and continue to sell copies even today.
The original Fallouts were never intended to be targetted at the mainstream gamer. In fact, the isometric, turn-based gameplay was a direct counterpoint to the real-time, FPP gameplay that was popular at the time the original Fallout was released.
There is zero real evidence that a modern release of a game in the style of the original Fallouts would not be successful today. Note: trying to make ludicrous points about 2D graphics and/or the turn-based gameplay and isometric viewpoint being a result of technological limitations are just plain fail.
Trying to claim that every company in any industry, whether it's gaming or textiles, must appeal to the exact same consumer base is the sort of thing that can only spout from the mouth of someone who has no idea what s/he is talking about. One of the best ways to achieve success as a business is to appeal to a niche consumer base where there is little to no real competition.
Any rational person should be able to see that Bethesda's huge PR-budget and the bullshit "reviews" and previews (that equate to little more than another form of advertising nowadays) almost certainly had as much, if not more, to do with Fallout 3's success as the game itself did.
Finally, appealing to "smart business sense" as some sort of excuse for sacrificing quality or integrity in your work is the sort of the thing I'd only really expect to hear from the mouth of some corporate all-about-the-bottom-line lacky, not an actual human being.
Oh, and now it's premium DLC? Hooray for meaningless adjectives added on by PR goons. It'll never really stop until people stop falling for such garbage. Which means it'll never go away.
TyloniusFunk
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Kyuu said:
Marx said:
Kyuu, who says he's not a lackey?
Marx, revenue doesn't make art, which your statement implies. The fact of the matter is that Bethesda didn't fail by making the game first person or real time. These are superficial changes, they could have managed them and made a truer Fallout game, but their writer/designers simply weren't equal to the task. This is probably due to their "different" corporate culture. Their executives don't recognize how Tolkien is different than a Magic: The Gathering novel, so we end up with shill writers, undermining any other passing similarities with the originals.
The worst part about the PDLC is the same: perfectly fertile ground for true Fallout entertainment that will be ruined by flashy, unnuanced design and uninspired, uninspiring writing.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
TyloniusFunk said:
qualify who defines them as superficial changes
per the original developers of the game, it was the core mechanics and the first design choice made. even before setting/story/plot/anything
TyloniusFunk
It Wandered In From the Wastes
TheWesDude said:
I'll extrapolate: these attributes are superficial because they say nothing about the content of the game, only how the user interacts with that content. Also, only the combat in the originals was turn based, the rest of the world interaction was real time. Troika designed a full real-time option for Arcanum. I am proposing that it is conceivable to have a game like Fallout 3 that better adapts the feel of the original games. How different that game must be from Fallout 3 to pass the bar will differ from person to person.
Why did the original designers choose the attributes they did? If they had access to today's technology would they make the same decisions? As you say, having been decided before setting/story/plot, the combat system and visual perspective can only be seen as one of many elements that define Fallout.
TyloniusFunk
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Ausir said:
Pre-Half-Life. PnP elements can be adapted into anything given a masterful designer.
Edit: On this point, can any of you vets direct me to some source material of the original dev's discussing these choices?
TyloniusFunk said:
You really might want to check dates more often. Half-Life came out in 1998... which is the same year as Fallout 2. Now if you're talking about Half-Life 2 then I have to wonder what you think of any of the early game.
Doom is a better benchmark in terms of FPS and given it came out 1993 it pre-dates Fallout 1. So technology wasn't the limiting factor for Fallout 1 in deciding to go with Turn-Based.
Masterful Designers can adapt elements and ideas to most genres? Okay then where did all of these wonderful people disappear to after the 90s?
TyloniusFunk
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Fade said:
In other words, Fallout was developed before Half-Life advanced FPS gameplay. Exactly my point.
Fade said:
You don't think the developers took one good look at the FPS, real time games around '93-'94 when Fallout was developed and decided out of hand that FPS, real time was unsuitable for a deep, realistic game? Doom was essentially 2D. Not to mention the development/licensing costs for a newer technology.
Fade said:
There are far fewer than your "all of these" suggests, and those precious few are rarely given free license these days. At least that's my presumption.
TyloniusFunk said:
Advanced FPS gameplay? Which aspect of Half-Life do you consider so advanced over Doom?
Fade said:
TyloniusFunk said:
FPS is not the newer technology. Maze War was made in 1973. Dungeon Master was 1987. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Master_(computer_game)I played Dungeon Master when it first came out and that playstyle would have fit parts of P&P gaming and could have been adapted to the Fallout setting. As the company Mindscape proved somewhat with their game Captive.
Deep, I will give you on Fallout, but it isn't realistic and it's not meant to be. 50s Sci-Fi was proven to be inaccurate by '97 when Fallout was released. Given the number of people who jumped on the Doom bandwagon I doubt finding people to fund a FPS would have been difficult.
TyloniusFunk said:
Perhaps, perhaps not. I've been gaming for a long time, both P&P and computer, up til this decade there was a constant stream of games with odd ideas that simply worked for some reason. Now it seems all we are getting is clones & bad remakes. Hopefully it will change like Movie industry does and the next decade will see a revival of original thinking. Of course this all just my opinion so the world could have passed me & I'm just one of the old people shouting at the wind.
TyloniusFunk
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Fade said:
How about a vertical axis and NPCs for starters.
Fade said:
More realistic than FPSs, which at the time were sprite based and lacked smooth transitions. Try strafing around your rocket in Doom or try to view a corpse from a different angle.
If you want to continue this discussion, start a new thread. We are far away from DLC by now.
You may want to check this article you can find on this very site.TyloniusFunk said:
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
We need to avoid making every discussion on this subject about the financial feasibility of a new original fallout. It's been discussed, STFU.
As for the topic, I think it fitting that he misspelled Canon when referring to Operation Anchorage. Really fits what they're doing there.
As for the topic, I think it fitting that he misspelled Canon when referring to Operation Anchorage. Really fits what they're doing there.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
and not to mention the undworld ultimas which came out before fallout
Just think for a moment about a game, with the details of Fallout 1, and its quality in dialogues and writting and NPCs. With turn based gameplay, the graphic of a game similar to Demigod and a marketing as good like those of Bethesda or Bungie.UncannyGarlic said:
And now tell me such a game could not sell like hotcakes or survive.
Demigod official HD trailer
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
that game looks awesome. i just get a little confused as to whats cinematic rather than in-game. but the parts i can identify as in-game look really high quality too much even if its too bright to show the richness of the textures.
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
Fade said:
Actually, FPP/RPGs are not "Next-Gen." Actually, they are rather Old-Gen. I laugh at the new players who think that there were no FPSes before Halo or Half-Life 2. The Elder Scrolls is, in fact, OLDER than Fallout. Arena was released in 1994, Fallout came in 1997. Daggerfall was released in 1997, if I remember right. I hate that "Next-Gen" label. The word "Next-Gen" ALWAYS makes a sentence sound retarded. ALWAYS.
