@Tagaziel
Off-topic yes but I have to chime in on this: Why was that thread reply-banned? Sure it seemed like the usual FO4 bashing thread but there was some attempt at discussion at what parts of 4 the posters feel should be left in if Bethesda does retcon out stuff from 5 along with stuff from 4 that has been consistent with prior games.
For the simple reason that it was an unproductive speculation about things that will never happen. Bethesda defines canon now.
usual FO4 bashing present.
This is your answer. If the site is to reverse sliding towards oblivion (it's already a joke insofar influence matters, far cry from what we once were), then a reality check is needed.
On the topic, I'm with Toront and Kohno. I'm not too incensed about lore (though I would wince if there are people who attempt to push their fanon of Fallout lore as fact - i.e ghouls not needing sustenance because apparently different levels of ghouldom exists and the aforementioned Battle of Redding).
Feral ghouls don't need it, since they're clinically dead and sustained only by radiation (the sources are below, but MARGOT makes it patently clear that ferals are well done and gone).
https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Ghoul#Complications
This is supported by the classification introduced in Fallout 3, building on the lore from Fallout and Fallout 2. The unfortunate conclusion is that all ghouls will eventually die, with only a handful of exceptional individuals surviving with their minds intact. The diminishing numbers of sane or living ghouls from game to game supports that notion.
What's wrong with bashing Fallout 4? Discussion forums generally should allow discussion, so long as it's not cross-site trolling or stuff like that.
Discussion, yes. Bashing, no.
The thing is the same with everything in this game. Where are their headquarters? Is the armory really the little shop at the entrance? How many of them are there? Do they have action logs? Which has been their impact truly? Is a room smaller than my quarters actually their HQ? Yes, there are assumptions to make. But it could be doing a better job at creating the illusion. Especially when you become theit true leader, they wouldn't still "keep information off the outsider".
It might not JUST be charged with that. But it's all I've seen them do, and not even that often.
I'm not saying the portrayal is perfect, as every game abstracts things. For me, that's generally enough to get an idea of what the SRB is, same as the miniature Vaults from Fo1/Fo2 generally succeeded in creating the illusion of a vast structure capable of housing hundreds of people, rather than sixteen (32 is we squeeze two people into one bed
).
it might not be, but that's the impression that I gathered from reading, listening and watching. You can't have everything in your head, and if you do, you shouldn't give much credit to the writer. Rather, to yourself for having such a spanning imagination and capability of retention.
Hey now, are you calling me smart? Because I like Fallout 4 and that's apparently an indication of mental illness round these parts.
I do have a knack for remembering things that interest me and connecting the dots. In the Institute's case, I've spent a good deal of time poring over the terminals and dialogue files, so it just comes naturally at this point.
I think this is one of the limitations of the first person perspective, actually. If the game was isometric, there'd be no problems with suspending disbelief and we could take the SRB's size at face value (we actually do it for all the locations in Fallout 1/2 which aren't necessarily much bigger). But since it's presented in FPP, we're more inclined to take it at face value, as a representation of all that literally exists there.
But it could be doing a better job at creating the illusion. Especially when you become theit true leader, they wouldn't still "keep information off the outsider".
I don't dispute that, every game could be improved. But every game has a limited scope and budget and I try to account for that.
(I do disagree about keeping information from the outsider, secrecy and scheming is a part of the Institute's characterization and what makes Li quit, if you want to procure her for the Brotherhood)
You don't.
You are threatening people and reply-banning threads for no good reason, other than pettiness.
Threatening to change someone's username and avatar because they said that they "Burned you", isn't good conduct no matter how you phrase it.
If you behave like a child and go "LALALALALA I burned you!", I am not going to mince words or be nice.
I was reffering to THIS THREAD. EVERYONE on that thread understood what the discussion was about, and its a useful discussion to ask what we think from the Fallout 4 lore should stay.
You reply-banned the thread purely because you disagreed with the way the title was worded, because it questions the authority of the holy Bethesda. If you thought the title was inaccurate, you could have changed it to "What parts of Fallout 4 did you think actually fit the overall universe?"" like Brivoo suggested. You were overly anal and pedantic about it because you were looking for an excuse to replyban the thread.
Reality check, see below.
Whatever that guy's political ideologies may have been, his claims as to why he wanted to revoke your powers are very much in line with the types of behaviour you've been showing on this site.
If I was who you say I am, I would've banned you two posts ago. But I don't, because as annoying and shallow as your posts are, they don't breach rules.
That might befit a special rank, as we had a tradition of doing on NMA, but otherwise no.
This forum isn't toxic.
People just see this forum, misunderstand what it's about, and cry about it.
> Say this forum isn't toxic
> Broadly dismiss everyone who disagrees with that as a dumb crybaby
> Continue arguing it's not toxic
Yeah, no.
We treat all newcomers with respect, so long as they treat us with respect(Something you still haven't got a grip of by the looks of it)
That gave me a chuckle. All newcomers treated with respect.
You're a joker, I'll give you that.
Maybe if you actually spent time here, instead of taking the word of butthurt people, you'd realise that there's nothing toxic about this place. But I forgot, regularly visiting a forum that you abuse your admin powers on isn't exactly your shtick is it.
I spent years here, more than you ever have. Don't presume to lecture me on what NMA is.
Maybe if you realised that I do try and do that, and not everyone who misses out a few details is a moron.
You don't. You openly stated that you hate Fallout 4, haven't played it, and wish it will be forgotten or excised from the series. That's not an actual argument, that's a hateful rant. At least you have stopped blabbing on about how Bethesda writers are dumb and I'm overthinking the game.
That's my point though, that's exactly how you sounded. If you can't see how that's assholish, you are beyond help.
So, apparently misunderstanding the point of one of the departments of the Institute due to the misleading name is getting basic points about the game's story and lore wrong.
You don't have to be an ass over mistakes that anyone could make.
Yeah, it is. As is judging a book by its cover. As is interpreting Democratic People's Republic of Korea to be a democracy focusing on the welfare of the people.
I spent enough time over the past two days, writing posts and backing them up with citations where I can, quoting at length and poring over the dialogue files and looking up facts. You are obviously incapable of extending me the same courtesy.
The Brotherhood in 2161 were isolationists who gathered technology and preserved it
Incorrect. The Brotherhood of Steel in 2161 gathered and preserved technology, but it as a
means to an end, not an end in itself. I offer you two quotes:
"[The Brotherhood is] the only salvation this tortured planet and its people have. Without us, humanity is sure to perish." (Vree)
"t is time you wore your own suit of Power Armor. This is a very special privilege for one so new to our order. Wear our Power Armor as a symbol of hope as you walk the wasteland, for someday when the world is ready we will surface and restore our battered Earth. Congratulations, you have made us all very proud. I'll send Michael the authorization." (Talus)
This clearly demonstrates the goal is the restoration of humanity. Not hoarding knowledge. Unless, of course, that's an example of poor writing.
Oh wait. I forgot. It's not Bethesda, so this can't possibly be bad writing.
Not "Let's shoot at ghouls and recruit outsiders constantly and pretend to care. Ad Victoriam"
It's called evolution. Look it up. On the one hand, you whine that Fallout 4 isn't creative and interesting enough for you, on the other, you demand that it copy a faction verbatim, which would you then decry as not creative or interesting enough for you.
I've already described it many times. I have better things to do than to waste time and effort on writing another reply to you that will get summarily dismissed because you have an irrational hatred of the game.
By your own admission, by the way.
I honestly don't know how you could interpret it that way. You asked why the writing is flawed. I interpreted that as a request, and stated that as the intention of my reply. Then I said I was going to be critical of the writing, and that I was sorry if I ended up giving you the impression that I was criticizing you personally. I wasn't assuming that I'm right anymore than you or anyone else on this thread has, as we all have our own opinions.
If you didn't mean third degree
burns, then I apologize. I assumed that when you wrote "give you the third degree", you meant achieving a total and sick burn. Misinterpreted your intention.
Sorry. It also affected the tone of my response. But on a general level, you're asking questions that are answered in the game, sometimes ones that come off as being
deliberately obtuse in order to annoy me. Questions that you would not be asking about FNV, for instance, despite it using similar narrative tools and implying, showing, rather than outright telling.
I am seriously asking. My main point is that the writing lacks something. Each question is something that it should be able to answer, but which isn't in it as far as I know. Perhaps I could have been clearer.
I understand how you consider it as lacking something. My impression was the opposite: We often ask ourselves about how other regions didn't create something like the NCR, and the game explains how it failed: Due to the interference of the Institute. Everyone assumes it was a deliberate ploy to wipe out the CPG (much like the Steel Plague could have devastated the nascent NCR, if Rhombus choked on an iguana one night) and for me that was enough substance to feed my suspensions of disbelief.
Basically, you travel across the Commonwealth, you see Diamond City and settlements (ruined or intact), Bunker Hill, Quincy, and it's not difficult to imagine that something might have been born out of it, much like the NCR was born out of an alliance of like-minded towns. But it was killed long ago, by the Institute
Of course, the holotape in the Director's quarters adds a wrinkle to it, suggesting it wasn't sanctioned by the Director, who wanted to deploy androids en masse to the surface to stabilize the Commonwealth. I enjoy mysteries and the notion that the SRB or other hardliners actively sabotaged the CPG is just delicious from a story standpoint.
Also, I think we can have a pleasant discussion. I see you aren't jumping to Jorgo's conclusion that you feel it's lacking, then it must be objectively terribad, so you're already on the level.
So basically they're just going to avoid dying. Like everyone else in the entire world. They aren't dealing with anything that is threatening the survival of humanity. They're just hiding, in luxury. There isn't some flaw of human nature, or of society to fix. They're just accumulating better material possessions. I suppose that was a silly question on my part. Everyone makes mistakes, but it still illustrates that the writing is shallow because that answer is...lacking in layers, or philosophy of any kind.
Basically, they're going to avoid dying, further their scientific understanding and knowledge, preserve humanity and restore it beneath the ground, building a grand civilization while the dead surface lingers on. Their flaw is their moral myopia and the fundamental flaw of their society is the way it treats wastelanders with disdain.
That said, consider the implications of their policies or using the surface as a Petri dish. If you use reductionist logic, every faction can be boiled down to avoid dying. The NCR is expanding to avoid dying. The Legion is expanding to avoid dying.
Everything is fundamentally about survival in the wasteland. The question is what comes of the conflicts they inevitably get embroiled in as they try to survive.
Yes really. In philosophy that's an interesting question to discuss. Why are we special? We're just another carbon based life form that evolved on one planet among the (almost) countless others. Why do we deserve anything and what does it mean to deserve something? However in the context of Fallout it would be more like 'is humanity worth saving?' or 'can we be saved (is it futile)'? Some factions in the franchise have asked both of these questions.
That question is beyond the scope of the game. If you asked that anyone, they'd say "Yes, obv", before looking at you like you were basically insane. Every human wants to survive in this world, after all. We can ponder whether humanity is worth saving, but that's a non-existent question in the setting.
Of course, the question
what kind of humanity is worth saving is a different matter entirely - and one Fallout 4 is askin.
Again, reductionist logic can make everything seem shallow.
As explained, those are shallow reasons.
Survival is not a shallow reason. Neither is seeing to deepen your understanding of the world around you or building a better civilization (philosopher kings!).
They don't even say 'because it's the right thing to do'. Which would at least reference the concept of moral goodness, but is still a shallow answer. As it neither explains what is good and why, and from a writing perspective does nothing to differentiate between different characters or factions. The BoS thinks that securing dangerous tech is the best way to help humanity, and they do it to prevent atrocities. The Institute think that...they can't give up on them, and...I can't even fill in that second blank. What even happens if they fail? Oh right, they give up and decide that it was pointless. Deep.
The moral principles guiding each faction can be inferred from your interactions with them. I've outlined them repeatedly. Not everything needs to be stated outright.
Showing, not telling.
Yes I am f or real. No, I do not.
Is that your example? I'm not asking for a diagram of their hierarchy.
How is the CPG comparable to the NCR? I honestly can't tell if that was your point or not. Do you mean like the Desert Rangers or something? Maybe whatever it was that happened in Baja? There's a fair bit info given for those than the CPG.
Because the NCR had identical origins: Settlements banding together and founding something greater. The Commonwealth Provisional Government could have been the first step on the way to establishing a state, like NCR did. But it was smothered in its crib.
That's the parallel.
Furtermore, as stated above, the game presents it in broad strokes. Just like many things FNV does. The CPG is presented in broad strokes because it's history - and an example of a failed attempt at founding a state in the Commonwealth.
And yet you can't be bothered to fill in those specific blanks. I really don't want to patronize you, but I'm starting to get the impression that I need to lay these things out like mad gabs or something.
Snip?
I can't be bothered because your question about what the Director does is answered, in detail, by Shaun. You came across as deliberately obtuse, asking me to repeat what Shaun says in the game. The same goes for the rest of your questions, which, to me, exhibit a basic failure to read and understand English text.
Edit: not that it matters, but I have 500 hours in Fo4. So I have given it more than a fair shot, explored everything except Nuka World which I haven't played.
So you should have a pretty good idea about the story and its characters, after listening to them speak and reading the terminal entries - unless it's 500 hours of settlement building, which is good and great, but kind of precludes learning much about the story or the lore.
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