Lonesome Road Talk (obviously spoilers)

[DevilTakeMe]

Ok, this is getting annoying. I wasn't asking about Dog and Christine going to the Mojave, I was asking how the Mojave would hear what happened in the Divide in the first place? The only sane people who know are the two Couriers, one of who might well be dead.

Like I said, travelers will be able to stop by the Divide. Some just to investigate the nuclear explosion that occurred in the sky there (an apparent airburst isn't a small thing, obviously). It's possible that someone can piece together what happened.

If missiles were fired, there would be more incentive to investigate.

That one Courier who may or may not survive can help with that.

 

[Brother None]

The PC isn't supposed to do anything I don't tell him to do. But much of that principle was abandoned for Lonesome Road, sadly. It's very un-Fallout. As willooi mentions, this is all a rather bizarre twist on player agency.

Thing is, though, this DLC just leaves so much unexplained. ED-E's presence is never properly explained. The nature of the Divide before it got exploded is never explored. Ulysses' reasoning is fraught with holes and failings. The whole "legendary" status is never explained. It leaves everything very, very vague.

Like I said, travelers will be able to stop by the Divide. Some just to investigate the nuclear explosion that occurred in the sky there (an apparent airburst isn't a small thing, obviously). It's possible that someone can piece together what happened.

That something happened. Not that a legendary battle between two Couriers happened. All you know is missiles explode. For all they know some of those ghouls stumbled on the wrong buttons.

 

[KillgoreKillmore]

What would have made sense is if somehow when ED-E send's his information to the real ED-E that the information comes accross every media output in the Mojave (i.e. The Securitron's faces, the computer terminals, the Radio) and that's how it becomes legendary.

 

[AlternatePFG]

And does no one have the answer on
[spoiler:255f356af3]What's needed to talk down Ulysses? Do you really need to go with the NCR options? I would figure listening to his tapes would do, and I'm fairly sure I did a 90% speech check.[/spoiler:255f356af3]

I actually talked him down with a failed NCR faction check and a following 90-100 Speech check. (Don't remember exactly.)

 

[Courier]

What would have made sense is if somehow when ED-E send's his information to the real ED-E that the information comes accross every media output in the Mojave (i.e. The Securitron's faces, the computer terminals, the Radio) and that's how it becomes legendary.

Yeah, it was already established that ED-E makes recordings of everything that happens. It would have made sense if those recordings somehow started getting broadcast from the securitrons or on Radio New Vegas and that's how the legend spread.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

Like I said, travelers will be able to stop by the Divide. Some just to investigate the nuclear explosion that occurred in the sky there (an apparent airburst isn't a small thing, obviously). It's possible that someone can piece together what happened.

That something happened. Not that a legendary battle between two Couriers happened. All you know is missiles explode. For all they know some of those ghouls stumbled on the wrong buttons.

Combine it with Ulysses' transmissions to the Courier (there's at least one transmission that isn't a "live feed"), including any holotapes that Ulysses made that the courier didn't pick up, and there's a trail of breadcrumbs.

What would have made sense is if somehow when ED-E send's his information to the real ED-E that the information comes accross every media output in the Mojave (i.e. The Securitron's faces, the computer terminals, the Radio) and that's how it becomes legendary.

Yeah, it was already established that ED-E makes recordings of everything that happens. It would have made sense if those recordings somehow started getting broadcast from the securitrons or on Radio New Vegas and that's how the legend spread.

Mind you, it doesn't have to be ED-E... Ulysses has two Eyebots of his own.

[spoiler:30253fac8b]If Ulysses is alive, he can tell his side of the story. If Ulysses is dead, there's a grave draped with a flag on it. Both can say a lot about a situation.[/spoiler:30253fac8b]

Remember, New Vegas is a pastiche of the Old West, where people tell stories, even if they get some of the details wrong (Legate Lanius) or are so unbelievable that they become legendary themselves ("myth" and "Tall tales"). Some of the tales just happen to be true (Joshua Graham).

 

[Brother None]

Stop posting back-to-back, DevilTakeMe, we have an edit button and you can quote multiple people in one posts. It's in the rules, please read them.

What would have made sense is if somehow when ED-E send's his information to the real ED-E that the information comes accross every media output in the Mojave (i.e. The Securitron's faces, the computer terminals, the Radio) and that's how it becomes legendary.

Yes. See? It's plenty easy to come up with explanations. It's just the DLC doesn't bother to. Not for this and not for the other stuff.

I actually talked him down with a failed NCR faction check and a following 90-100 Speech check. (Don't remember exactly.)

Yes. I used that check too. There's also an option for if you listened to his tapes, though I didn't explore it (will do so in an upcoming replay before I review).

 

[willooi]

There's also an option for if you listened to his tapes, though I didn't explore it (will do so in an upcoming replay before I review).

I managed to talk him down by using one of the dialogue options referring to the tapes, but I'm not sure if the faction allegiance checks are necessary to get to them.

Details:

[spoiler:b77a7506f7]Even if you find all the tapes, only two of them come up as options - one concerning the White Legs, and the other being a quote on history. Picking the White Legs option allows you to talk about symbols, and how the tribe took his dreadlocks but not the 'meaning' of them, which then leads to questioning Ulysses about the importance of changing the meaning of symbols and not so much the symbols themselves (sorry, can't really explain it any clearer) - and then he backs down.

The quote option leads you nowhere, as far as I tried, and you'll have to fight him[/spoiler:b77a7506f7]

 

[DevilTakeMe]

Yes. See? It's plenty easy to come up with explanations. It's just the DLC doesn't bother to. Not for this and not for the other stuff.

I agree.

It's very much like the set up for Fallout 3 DLC with no real build-up to the DLC (I much preferred the slideshow upon entering DLC areas, if only to properly set the mood). You go into this DLC cold, with zero knowledge of what you're about to really get into aside from that one blurb of text you can accidentally skip through.

The pacing is linear, with the only real choices at the end. There's very little exposition/explanation in between.

While Ulysses is a complex character, it's somewhat difficult to piece together what he's actually saying, because it all sounds like some kind of insane backwards logic at first.

It's kind of like a mirror of some actions of players who have that "technical pacifist" thing going on. He's not trying to kill you, he's putting you in situations where you can die (either by your own hand or by the hand of "creatures who you indirectly created").

Then again, he's got this whole "anti-player" thing going on as well. Uses stealth boys, has two Eyebots of his own against your one, bothers to heal himself, etc.

 

[Ophiuchus]

[spoiler:c470192cc6]Even if you find all the tapes, only two of them come up as options - one concerning the White Legs, and the other being a quote on history. Picking the White Legs option allows you to talk about symbols, and how the tribe took his dreadlocks but not the 'meaning' of them, which then leads to questioning Ulysses about the importance of changing the meaning of symbols and not so much the symbols themselves (sorry, can't really explain it any clearer) - and then he backs down.

The quote option leads you nowhere, as far as I tried, and you'll have to fight him[/spoiler:c470192cc6]

Question:

[spoiler:c470192cc6]Is there a dialogue branch before mentioning the tapes? I got the White Legs tape but didn't see any dialogue options pertaining to it.[/spoiler:c470192cc6]

 

[willooi]

You go into this DLC cold, with zero knowledge of what you're about to really get into aside from that one blurb of text you can accidentally skip through.

I do think that was intentional, with the backstory of the place - but more so the courier's - slowly revealing itself as Ulysses fills you in. It would have been nice to have an intro, but not sure whether it could have done more than just something like "the Divide...how did it come to this?"

 

[DevilTakeMe]

You go into this DLC cold, with zero knowledge of what you're about to really get into aside from that one blurb of text you can accidentally skip through.

I do think that was intentional, with the backstory of the place - but more so the courier's - slowly revealing itself as Ulysses fills you in. It would have been nice to have an intro, but not sure whether it could have done more than just something like "the Divide...how did it come to this?"

I'd have liked to hear the stories of the Divide from those who managed to survive or escape. The tales of the Divide up to that point, so to speak. As Brother None mentioned, there's supposed to be a legendary story here, but there's no build up at the beginning.

Maybe repeat what Joshua Graham had to say about the Divide and what was reported there - that the NCR was suddenly cut off and it allowed the Legion time to regroup. Or about the settlement before whatever happened, happened.

Just a little tease.

 

[willooi]

Question:

[spoiler:830053398d]Is there a dialogue branch before mentioning the tapes? I got the White Legs tape but didn't see any dialogue options pertaining to it.[/spoiler:830053398d]

Yeah, an option like "I've heard your thoughts through your tapes"... how many of them have you found? I'm guessing you need at least two - but finding more of them doesn't seem to bring up additional choices later on. It might have to be the Big MT one, as I recall he goes into discussion about 'asking the question but fearing the answer'...

 

[Courier]

[spoiler:fff5b4b37e]

[/spoiler:fff5b4b37e]

 

[Sabirah]

[spoiler:d5cb20fd35]

[/spoiler:d5cb20fd35]

YOU MANIACS!

 

[willooi]

I'd have liked to hear the stories of the Divide from those who managed to survive or escape. The tales of the Divide up to that point, so to speak. As Brother None mentioned, there's supposed to be a legendary story here, but there's no build up at the beginning.

Maybe repeat what Joshua Graham had to say about the Divide and what was reported there - that the NCR was suddenly cut off and it allowed the Legion time to regroup. Or about the settlement before whatever happened, happened.

Just a little tease.

That's true. Some more background on how Hopeville was thriving would've been nice. But I take it that when Ulysses finally tells you about what he saw there, and being devastated and heartbroken by its destruction, it was meant as a huge revelatory moment. I suppose the devs intended for the vagueness as well as the environment to tell its own story as you progressed through it.

P.S. it might also be a bit convenient, story-wise, that this new world utopia Ulysses loved also happened to be a massive military base with active warheads for him to use.

Edit: But maybe that was why the place thrived? Protection? Hmm, but doesn't seem to be the best way for humanity to evolve from nuclear apocalypse when they themselves have a shedload of ICBMs.

Uh oh, and I just thought of a possible plot hole - if there are all these warheads you have to blow up in order to get to Ulysses, how did he get past it all?

 

[KillgoreKillmore]

Uh oh, and I just thought of a possible plot hole - if there are all these warheads you have to blow up in order to get to Ulysses, how did he get past it all?

Maybe Ullysses had to walk a different path to get to where he was. Maybe he walked his own Lonesome Road? Just a thought. While it seems linear on how he got there, there are doors in his Temple that cannot be opened. Maybe when discovered one by accident. But that is merely speculation.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

A parcel from Navarro that was, in fact, a high powered Enclave-made warhead detonator that caused the Divide disaster in 2274, cutting off yet another NCR supply route to the Mojave.

Really? Where'd you hear that?

 

[DevilTakeMe]

That's true. Some more background on how Hopeville was thriving would've been nice. But I take it that when Ulysses finally tells you about what he saw there, and being devastated and heartbroken by its destruction, it was meant as a huge revelatory moment. I suppose the devs intended for the vagueness as well as the environment to tell its own story as you progressed through it.

P.S. it might also be a bit convenient, story-wise, that this new world utopia Ulysses loved also happened to be a massive military base with active warheads for him to use.

Uh oh, and I just thought of a possible plot hole - if there are all these warheads you have to blow up in order to get to Ulysses, how did he get past it all?

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ulysses created many (not all) of the blocked passages himself with the warheads placed specifically to drive home his message that the Courier causes destruction and death in the wake of his wanderlust, in his twisted sort of logic.

All he'd have to do is collapse certain structures, such as a bridge in a key place, or a wall here so a warhead is sticking out and has to be cleared.

He did have bit of time from when he got to the Divide and when he contacted the Courier to plan and put together this plan. He even knew that he'd need ED-E to put his own plan into action, and had the Courier deliver it for him.

 

[willooi]

Maybe Ullysses had to walk a different path to get to where he was. Maybe he walked his own Lonesome Road? Just a thought. While it seems linear on how he got there, there are doors in his Temple that cannot be opened. Maybe when discovered one by accident. But that is merely speculation.

Ah yes, very much a possibility. He just leads you down that specific one as a lesson, I suppose, wanting you dead but also trusting that you'd probably make it. Thanks