Luck Fallout 4 SPECIAL video

[Juza The Cloud]

Hey Willy, have you ever played Call of Cthulhu: Dark corners of the Earth (developed by Headfirst but published by Bethsoft and 2k) ? Its an older fps/horror game with little UI, no quest markers, and an interesting take on specialized health packs. I recommend if you like older Bethsoft and related style games.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

But Bethesda decided they needed to draw in more "casual" (I don't use the labels as they don't really mean shit to me.) gamers, who I'm willing to bet didn't even mind the skill system from 3 and NV.

There are people in the world who get stuck on "I have a really good gun, why can't I kill stuff with it" ignoring that the game has a statistic for measuring proficiency with weapons (c.f. the blowback to Alpha Protocol). Assuming you're an RPG dev who isn't going to say "you know, RPGs just really aren't for you" you might want to have a super-simplistic "action mode" in your game, but it should really be a mode rather than the default game itself.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Mr Fish What does your opinion have to do with what Fallout 3 and 4 actually are?

Just because they aren't Fallout to you it isn't some universal truth.

I think that metacritic+financial succes+all the positive internet reactions are more objective than your opinion.

Because this isnt about opinion anymore when you can compare them DIRECTLY to each other. It isn't nostaliga nor has it something to do with old-school vs. new school - we had first person RPGs already in the 90s.






Is this really opinion? Are you so dense that you can't see the clear difference here and why Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 simply can never be true Fallout sequels? Game mechanics can not be simply seperated from the rest of the game and you can not explain the changes as some kind of improvement, because for whom? For who are they an improvement? It is a SHIFT of mechanics, not an IMPROVEMENT, an improvement would be to take the turn based combat from F1 and give it more options and making a BETTER turn based combat mechanic, not to remove it entirely.

For example, changing the first person combat mechanics from Skyrim to a top down turn based combat would NOT be an improvement either for the game! Because it is just a shift in mechanics. Nothing more, nothing less! A change to a game that was never meant to be a top-down/turn based game. So if it is not ok for Skyrim, why should it be ok for Fallout?

We are not talking about the quality of the gameplay here, mind you! We are talking purely about the mechanics. Fallout 4 could be the best shooter mankind has ever seen, and it would STILL not be a Fallout sequel. Because it doesn't follow the original Fallout mechanics. The best Chicken in the world can never be a Steak. No matter how fancy the chicken is prepared. It simply is no steak.

Do you want to see how a Fallout sequel MIGHT have looked like today?

Silent Storm - a 3D Top-Down turn based game.


Wasteland 2 - Do I need to say more?


Seriously, this isn't rocket science.

I could go on, take a bicycle, add 2 aditional wheels on it, some engine and call it an improvement. But no matter how many people see it as improvement, it will NEVER be a bicycle.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Whether or not something is a "true" representative of whatever sort of thing always seems fairly unimportant next to "do I like whatever it is." Like the former question is invariably going to be a function of "what you think defines whatever it is" and reasonable people are going to disagree, for example, on whether Doctor Who is science fiction (because things are accomplished with technology) or fantasy (because that technology is basically magic) or on whether there's a meaningful difference between the two anyway. If you want to say J.J. Abrams' Trek is real Star Trek because it's got a Kirk and a Spock, go ahead; it's just an opinion that I personally disagree with.

So regarding whether Bethesda's take on Fallout being a "true" Fallout is kind of irrelevant to me. All I know is that I do not like shooters, I do not generally like action-focused games, and I do not like games that are narratively or mechanically simplistic. That Bethesda has taken Fallout on a hard left turn towards a good percentage of the stuff I actively dislike in games, rankles. But "true" or not? I honestly don't care.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I would say that movies are a bit shoddy as a grenre because you can always mix certain styles, a TV series even more so, particularly when you take something as Doctor Who that has been runing for decades, I guess? But even with movies you have something that is called a tone which you have to follow, or you will get something completely different. If you make a love story with action inside or an action movie with a love story inside matters a lot, see the difference between Titanic and Indiana Jones. Changing that tone can give you very different results, like as if someone got the idea to write Terminator 1 as pure love story. And I doubt someone would ever see Titanic as a Sequel to Jaws I guess. - Extra bonus, Batman Begins ... as comedy.

So while you have some freedom with movies, even here you don't get a free pass to do and mix everything as you please, unless you REALLY know what you're doing! What people often don't see is that every craft really, even one that is so full of creativity follows certain principles, and it is best to follow those, like movie making 101. That is why there are schools for writing, movie making, design etc, because they do REALLY teach you someting. That is why you set a tone and stay true to it for the most part of the movie, or it will just lead to confusion, like having comedic slap stick scenes next to very dark, realistic and depressing ones. Not following those rules requires an very exceptional kind of character, like David Lynch or Jodorowsky for example. If you do not follow those principle and you're not one of those exceptional individuals ... than you get something that is as trash like the Star Wars prequels. Because as good as a buisness man Lucas might be, but he is a shitty script writer.

Thing is, when you have a game like Fallout 1 that can be still played and directly compared with new instalements, with looking up developer quotes, development documents and design principles that have been set in pre-production you can very easily identify what Fallout was about.

And it doesn't take rocket science to do that. Remember, we are NOT talking about taste or quality here! Just comparing design principles. And it is pretty obvious that both Bethesda and the team behind Fallout 1 follow very different design principles and goals.

 

[Walpknut]

Just the fact that Fallout 4rewards people with SPECIAL stats at 1 is more than telling how different the design goals and philosophy are. In The previous Fallouts SPECIAL defined you because you had very few instances to change it permanently after assigning the initial points and similarly you had to pick both perks and skills carefully because you had a limit, now Maxing Out SPECIAL and getting all Perks is the literal point of the leveling system, wouldn't surprise me if you can just do all quests for all factions in one playthrough regardless of how little sense it makes, just like in Skyrim.

Fallout was about definning and specializing your character, Bethesda games are just time wasters where you can do everything and builds don't matter.

 

[Willy Rogers]

Hey Willy, have you ever played Call of Cthulhu: Dark corners of the Earth (developed by Headfirst but published by Bethsoft and 2k) ? Its an older fps/horror game with little UI, no quest markers, and an interesting take on specialized health packs. I recommend if you like older Bethsoft and related style games.

Have played it on and off over the years, always get too scared to finish it. Which is a testament to how good it is IMO.

 

[Willy Rogers]

But Bethesda decided they needed to draw in more "casual" (I don't use the labels as they don't really mean shit to me.) gamers, who I'm willing to bet didn't even mind the skill system from 3 and NV.

There are people in the world who get stuck on "I have a really good gun, why can't I kill stuff with it" ignoring that the game has a statistic for measuring proficiency with weapons (c.f. the blowback to Alpha Protocol). Assuming you're an RPG dev who isn't going to say "you know, RPGs just really aren't for you" you might want to have a super-simplistic "action mode" in your game, but it should really be a mode rather than the default game itself.

Didn't Interplay try that with Tactics? I seem to remember there being an RTS mode you could activate, didn't go over well.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Tactics could be played in real time or as turn based game, however the stats would be the same no matter if you chose to turn it off or on.

 

[Juza The Cloud]

Hey Willy, have you ever played Call of Cthulhu: Dark corners of the Earth (developed by Headfirst but published by Bethsoft and 2k) ? Its an older fps/horror game with little UI, no quest markers, and an interesting take on specialized health packs. I recommend if you like older Bethsoft and related style games.

Have played it on and off over the years, always get too scared to finish it. Which is a testament to how good it is IMO.

I agree just wandering around Innsmouth is quite creepy, of course the attack of the Fishmen in the Gillman House still gets me.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hey Willy, have you ever played Call of Cthulhu: Dark corners of the Earth (developed by Headfirst but published by Bethsoft and 2k) ? Its an older fps/horror game with little UI, no quest markers, and an interesting take on specialized health packs. I recommend if you like older Bethsoft and related style games.

Have played it on and off over the years, always get too scared to finish it. Which is a testament to how good it is IMO.

I agree just wandering around Innsmouth is quite creepy, of course the attack of the Fishmen in the Gillman House still gets me.

Sounds like an interesting game... I also reccommend Pandemic, a Russian game with poor translations but it has fantastic atmosphere and really hard mechanics.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Why is everyone going on about RPG mechanics regarding Fallout 4?

Is it not safe now to say Fallout is no longer an RPG, it is an open world FPS (with a "story").

If you have this mindset ^ you avoid a lot of stress, just get a lil disappointment.